BREAKING NEWS - EFL VERDICT - 12 POINTS

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

Just now, sherlyegg said:

Might not be a lg 1 next yr...1/2 of em will be in dire staights. Efl may cancel for a year and restructure..

 

That is a very good point!!!!

 

But does it mean Wigan Charlton and Hull are going down some kind of rabbit hole? 

[Bluesteel]

Just now, brian joicey said:

We've just had a nighmare season where we were absolutely cr@p BUT still managed to be 8pts above relegation ! we all know that ,with a little luck etc, those extra 4 pts were easily obtainable so it's not the end of the world .... admittedly it ain't great either !!!  

Yes, plus there may be one or two others with points deducted yet. 

[teddybeararmy]

2 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

Am aware of that 

 

but how does that make it ok ? Any idiot can see why people are going to risk FFP if they get to the promised land and be untouchable ,  it’s not like they would even sanction them on relegation back to the championship is it and what difference would it make with there failure payments anyway 

The thing is both teams also had players of high value that could have been sold to negate there losses, we accumulated older players on high wages with no resale value. The ones we could have sold were either kept until their contracts ran down or were left in the stands to Rot ,or both.

[Guest mkowl]

57 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

If we'd not broke the rules in the first place we wouldn't even have to worry about anything like that

See some of us are not convinced we have broken the rules - its been interpreted by a panel that we have but until we know why I will reserve judgement.

 

It is a very technical point on the date of this transaction and the correct accounting period. And this is what it seems to boil down to whether we have or we haven't.

[Bluesteel]

37 minutes ago, SiJ said:

You might be right.

 

If I was Wigan, I'd be seething. 

The rules for admin are 12 points that season or the following season if they are relegated before the deduction. Aim to relegate basically 

 

In our situation auto relegation was worst case if an aggravated breach. So the punishment beyond -21. We were deemed clear of part but in breach for 12 but seemingly not aggravated so auto relegation off the cards. That’s my interpretation anyway 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Bluesteel

[Guest Bulgaria]

15 minutes ago, HullOwlPhil said:

Love that.

 

Can't stop watching it.

[sherlyegg]

2 minutes ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

That is a very good point!!!!

 

But does it mean Wigan Charlton and Hull are going down some kind of rabbit hole? 

Yep, seems that way..unless a super championship is set up, another 4 teams...or more

[Guest mkowl]

7 minutes ago, Spondon Owl said:

Were these accounts filed during her tenure? If so could this be the reason for her rather sharp exit from the club? 

 

if no.. well.. soz. @mkowl any ideas?

She resigned 11th Feb 2019 

 

Accounts were approved 20th June 2019

 

She was appointed director during the 2017/18 year

[Bluesteel]

Also I think the rules are to prevent promotion via over spend. So relegation is  an extreme. By deducting next season it sticks to the rhetoric 

[Spondon Owl]

Just now, mkowl said:

She resigned 11th Feb 2019 

 

Accounts were approved 20th June 2019

 

She was appointed director during the 2017/18 year

Ok.. got you. Thanks. As always you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to these things. Very useful to better understand what is actually going on.

[shez owl]

What is wrong is that in this FFP case is that the punishment is arbitrary and at the whim of a 3 person panel... what if they woke up in a bad mood? 

 

It should be a fixed penalty like going in admin that then is clear.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, teddybeararmy said:

The thing is both teams also had players of high value that could have been sold to negate there losses, we accumulated older players on high wages with no resale value. The ones we could have sold were either kept until their contracts ran down or were left in the stands to Rot ,or both.

The thing is ...they broke the rules

[teddybeararmy]

2 minutes ago, shez owl said:

What is wrong is that in this FFP case is that the punishment is arbitrary and at the whim of a 3 person panel... what if they woke up in a bad mood? 

 

It should be a fixed penalty like going in admin that then is clear.

Breaking p&s has a sliding scale of points deduction depending on how much over the 39m you go. 

[Guest mkowl]

Just now, Spondon Owl said:

Ok.. got you. Thanks. As always you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to these things. Very useful to better understand what is actually going on.

Would love to see the evidence that was presented to the panel and the rationale for the divergence in opinion between the auditor and the panel (or the expert appointed by it).

 

I am still struggling to see how if the auditor signed it off the EFL can argue against it IF the evidence was sufficient to make that call in the first place 

[Taximark]

If we had got promoted this season would they still be able to serves us with a -12 points in the PL?

[Captain Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, TaxiMark said:

If we had got promoted this season would they still be able to serves us with a -12 points in the PL?

 

 

I would presume if we'd finished 1st or 2nd ( when you wish upon a star ! )......or reached playoffs, then we'd have the 12 points taken off

 

us this season and demoted down say to 11 or 12th in the league and all other teams above us go up one place with someone else taking our spot.

 

That's my guess.

 

Also just on the Katrina front. Maybe she made a genuine mistake and filed the accounts in the wrong year and had to resign when it came to light ?......just a hunch.

[shez owl]

1 minute ago, teddybeararmy said:

Breaking p&s has a sliding scale of points deduction depending on how much over the 39m you go. 

Which is wrong. If it’s so important to the EFL It needs to be a deterrent so you give one deduction of a sufficient nature.

You break the rule you break the rule, the damage in going further and further into debt is at the clubs risk.

With a sliding scale I think clubs will use it in their financial planning, “if we sign these then we will be x in debt at year 3 meaning we get x points deduction, is it worth the risk given who we’ve signed”  That’s can’t be right

[Apple]

I'm in half a mind that I'd rather it be over 100% and have been relegated. Taking it on the chin and moving on, clean slate.

 

But, the other side of me thinks that we "could" overcome this 12 points or even appeal.

 

Meh

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

17 minutes ago, mkowl said:

See some of us are not convinced we have broken the rules - its been interpreted by a panel that we have but until we know why I will reserve judgement.

 

It is a very technical point on the date of this transaction and the correct accounting period. And this is what it seems to boil down to whether we have or we haven't.

Would still reserve judgement myself also.  I find it really really hard to believe that the auditors would of signed those accounts off as a true and fair view without good evedence regards the timing.

 

The effect of the transaction would have blown their materiality level out of the water.

 

If there is a valid argument for this treatment I can't see how we won't fight this and appeal.

 

Different argument could be whether this may have met criteria to include in the accounts themselves but not meet criteria for including in the P&S submission for that year.

[The only way is S6]

If it’s 6 points on appeal, we keep calm & carry on. 
No lawsuits from other clubs because we wouldn’t have dropped in this season anyway. EFL know this & won’t want more legal challenges.

Monk knows the squad, where it’s weak etc

DC has always backed his managers.

We have to look forward.

How long is the current closed season?

6 weeks until new one starts.

Gonna be a busy period getting players in & friendlies. 
Never a dull moment at S6.

UTO