Mason Greenwood

[SiJ]

5 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Whatever your views on Greenwood (and the majority will make their own mind up on him after listening to that audio) the CPS have decided he doesn’t have a case to answer.

 

CPS have had their hand forced because witnesses have withdrawn and/or changed evidence. 

[pat blondeau]

3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

CPS have had their hand forced because witnesses have withdrawn and/or changed evidence. 

CPS can still pursue a conviction even without witness testimony if they believe the evidence is strong enough to get a conviction.

 

It’s a strange case this one because I’ve read she’s still in a relationship with him too.

 

That audios grim but anyone has a right to a fair trial. It shouldn’t be social media as the judge and jury.

 

None of us know the full facts of the case but the fact is he’s not been convicted of anything so Manchester United have absolutely no legal route they can go down now 

[beswetherick]

Chelsea will probably sign him for 100m

[Bannofan]

19 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Whatever your views on Greenwood (and the majority will make their own mind up on him after listening to that audio) the CPS have decided he doesn’t have a case to answer. So Manchester United will have absolutely no legal avenue they can go down if they wanted to terminate his contract.

 

If it’s not a criminal matter (which it isn’t now) the only way they could sack him for gross misconduct was if he stopped turning up for training.

 

In recent years Wednesday have had Malik Wilks with a conviction for assault and being involved in a stabbing, Saido Berahino a convicted drink driver, Gary Madine with convictions for assault and Nile Ranger with a list of convictions as long as his arm.

 

Are you ok with these lads playing for Wednesday or do you think footballers need a clean DBS now?

 

I’m not defending anyone either but we have a criminal justice system and rehabilitation of offenders in this country. And if the criminal justice has decided they shouldn’t be in prison then they should be free to play football in my view. What else are they going to be doing?

 

I take your point,  for me Madine and Ranger were completely unrepentant and were serial offenders. 

 

I'm not sure what it is with footballers ignoring drink driving rules, or whether they are targeted by police due to their flashy cars so are more likely to be caught, but often there is remorse and fortunately in all but a few well known cases, no casualties. 

 

I didn't know about the Wilks thing, but if it happened when he was on our books, I would want him out the door. 

 

But , yes I take your point and it is worth considering.

 

[pat blondeau]

3 minutes ago, Bannofan said:

 

I take your point,  for me Madine and Ranger were completely unrepentant and were serial offenders. 

 

I'm not sure what it is with footballers ignoring drink driving rules, or whether they are targeted by police due to their flashy cars so are more likely to be caught, but often there is remorse and fortunately in all but a few well known cases, no casualties. 

 

I didn't know about the Wilks thing, but if it happened when he was on our books, I would want him out the door. 

 

But , yes I take your point and it is worth considering.

 

If you take Wilks as an example, once he has a conviction the only way he’s going to turn his life around is by playing football.

 

So if you stopped these lads playing football they’d probably just fall back into crime again. 
 

I take your point about wanting to see criminal justice served but there’s also rehabilitation of offenders to consider.

 

And in the Greenwood case (as grim as the audio is) he’s not even been convicted of anything 

[NYCOWL]

I was talking to a college football coach in a bar a few years ago and I asked him why some of these kids turn out to be wrong uns. His response was something along the lines of “because of their talent they start learning at a young age that the normal rules don’t apply to them - because they are valuable commodities they can do things that other people can’t”

[NYCOWL]

1 hour ago, pat blondeau said:

If you take Wilks as an example, once he has a conviction the only way he’s going to turn his life around is by playing football.

 

So if you stopped these lads playing football they’d probably just fall back into crime again. 
 

I take your point about wanting to see criminal justice served but there’s also rehabilitation of offenders to consider.

 

And in the Greenwood case (as grim as the audio is) he’s not even been convicted of anything 

There’s a lot of validity in the point you are making. I’d need to see genuine remorse and a commitment to change before I change my mind about him. He could start by donating a massive sum to a charity for battered women and take it from there. 
 

 

[markg]

2 hours ago, pat blondeau said:

Whatever your views on Greenwood (and the majority will make their own mind up on him after listening to that audio) the CPS have decided he doesn’t have a case to answer. So Manchester United will have absolutely no legal avenue they can go down if they wanted to terminate his contract.

 

If it’s not a criminal matter (which it isn’t now) the only way they could sack him for gross misconduct was if he stopped turning up for training.

 

In recent years Wednesday have had Malik Wilks with a conviction for assault and being involved in a stabbing, Saido Berahino a convicted drink driver, Gary Madine with convictions for assault and Nile Ranger with a list of convictions as long as his arm.

 

Are you ok with these lads playing for Wednesday or do you think footballers need a clean DBS now?

 

I’m not defending anyone either but we have a criminal justice system and rehabilitation of offenders in this country. And if the criminal justice has decided they shouldn’t be in prison then they should be free to play football in my view. What else are they going to be doing?

That's football fans isn't it.

 

I seem to remember that we were okay with Madine's convictions, until he turned crap

[OxonOwl]

 

 

Madine did make a public apology to his victims, the club and the fans before he was unsuspended.

 

Granted he went on to do other stuff after.

 

 

[NYCOWL]

13 minutes ago, markg said:

That's football fans isn't it.

 

I seem to remember that we were okay with Madine's convictions, until he turned crap

It never sat well with me. 

[pat blondeau]

26 minutes ago, NYCOWL said:

There’s a lot of validity in the point you are making. I’d need to see genuine remorse and a commitment to change before I change my mind about him. He could start by donating a massive sum to a charity for battered women and take it from there. 
 

 

The way society is these days with trial by social media in a high profile case like this it’s going to be very difficult for Greenwood to resume his playing career in England anyway regardless of what the law says.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that Manchester United will just want rid now because of the reputational damage associated with Greenwood. Manchester United will take the financial hit and pay his contract out in full and Greenwood will resume his playing career overseas 

[SallyCinnamon]

4 hours ago, pat blondeau said:

Greenwood is going to get his contract paid out in full now so he can’t lose either way. He’s on 75k a week until 2025 and he’s collecting that whatever happens.

 

What’s Manchester United’s options now? They either get him back training which they’d get hammered for, pay his contract out in full or try loan him out and take a hit on his wages. That’s if any club would take him, I can’t see anyone buying him.

 

The decision Manchester United take now is not going to be a football decision, it’s not going to be a legal decision, it’s going to be a decision purely based on reputational damage.

 

Social media has definitely changed society on an issue like this. Leeds United never even suspended Bowyer and Woodgate, they carried on picking them right through the court case and paid for all their court fees. There’s no way Leeds would have been able to get away with doing that today. 
 

There’s certain occupations like teaching, law, accounting, police where any criminal record would likely bar you from getting a job. But football has never been an occupation where a clean DBS has been a requirement. Are you saying it should be?

 

We have a current player in our squad that has a conviction for assault and being involved in a stabbing. Are you ok with him playing for Wednesday or do you think he should be cleaning the toilets too?

Which Wednesday player is that?! 

[Kopparberg]

Sounds like the police are frustrated by it to be honest.  
 

Ignoring Greenwood, it’s interesting to think about the alleged victim, how they are feeling and what possible outcome they actually wanted in the end themselves.  

 

[Kopparberg]

Just now, Kopparberg said:

Sounds like the police are frustrated by it to be honest.  
 

Ignoring Greenwood, it’s interesting to think about the alleged victim, how they are feeling and what possible outcome they actually wanted in the end themselves.  

 

and if this outcome is a direct result of their wishes, and how that is perceived by others who might be in a similar situation. 
 

Generally, It’d be a bad look IMO if it was just seen as ‘relationship gone wrong’ to other potential victims around the world. 

[NYCOWL]

52 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

The way society is these days with trial by social media in a high profile case like this it’s going to be very difficult for Greenwood to resume his playing career in England anyway regardless of what the law says.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that Manchester United will just want rid now because of the reputational damage associated with Greenwood. Manchester United will take the financial hit and pay his contract out in full and Greenwood will resume his playing career overseas 

Meh. He’s not the victim here. You can’t blame social media for his actions. If that were my daughter then alternative forms of redress would be on my mind. 

[pat blondeau]

31 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Which Wednesday player is that?! 

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/ex-leeds-united-striker-mallik-18669788.amp

[pat blondeau]

6 minutes ago, NYCOWL said:

Meh. He’s not the victim here. You can’t blame social media for his actions. If that were my daughter then alternative forms of redress would be on my mind. 

I’m not blaming social media but the Bowyer/Woodgate trial is a good example in how social media has changed situations like this.

 

Do you think Leeds would have been able to get away with continuing to pick Bowyer and Woodgate today and paying all their court fees during the case?

[scram]

Woodgate recused himself from selection.

 

Regarding greenwood i suspect man u will have grounds to fire him on the basis of the video/audio - they plenty of financial and legal muscle

 

They may prefer to let this drift away quietly

 

 

[NYCOWL]

42 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Do you think Leeds would have been able to get away with continuing to pick Bowyer and Woodgate today and paying all their court fees during the case?

No. So maybe social media has its uses 

[pat blondeau]

11 minutes ago, NYCOWL said:

No. So maybe social media has its uses 

Yes I think it’s safe to say if the Bowyer/Woodgate case happened today Leeds would have been forced to boot them out of the club.

 

Before social media it was much easier for a club to back the player, try ride it out and sweep it under the carpet.

 

With Greenwood, it’ll probably cost Manchester United about £10 million to pay out his contract but they’d lose a lot more than that in sponsors if they started playing him again. So I’d expect he’ll just get paid out but won’t play for them again