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WhiteOwl91

So Jos has now nailed his colours to the mast.

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1 hour ago, vulva said:

Not playing players for financial reasons was the only Get out of Jail card Jos had. That’s now gone. No way back for me now, and in football when managers go up against players, especially senior ones, there is only ever one winner. 

 

What’s even more staggering is DC allowing this to develop. If this was a football club I’d ploughed £60m into, I wouldn’t stand for it. 

 

DC is from a culture where the hierarchy is still very important. The manager is above the players and if there is information that the lowest level (players) does not respect the higher level (coaching staff), DC may well approve any disciplinary action. Of course, provided that the coaching staff acts with proper respect.

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11 hours ago, DJMortimer said:


We've unfortunately now entered that period all too familiar to countless football managers in the past in this modern era of self-obsessed hysteria. So many individuals have made their decision that it's time for another change and that is just about the end of it. Almost nothing will reverse this now. Even if we went on an unlikely run of victories, it would only be a temporary pause. Whilst things aren't going well, you can almost sense the panic from the mob: QUICK ! DO IT NOW ! I NEED MY FIX ! They are literally terrified that Luhukay gets through this period and their moment might be lost.

 

Every negative will be magnified beyond reason. Whatever Luhukay isn't doing, that is why he's failing (even if two weeks ago the exact opposite was being suggested by many). All his comments will be willfully manipulated to suit this purpose. Any extenuating circumstances will be ignored or rejected. Games that we haven't played yet have already been lost. Sometimes, these opinions will drift dangerously close to the line of fantasy or dishonesty.

 

Why the hell does Connor Kirby keep getting mentioned in the context of being preferred to more established options? The bloke has played in one league game for about 10 bloody minutes. What have David Jones, George Boyd and Almen Abdi done to suddenly become dependable and exceptional, especially when they have been routinely slaughtered here in the recent past? Why are some so confident about how good Keiren Westwood is these days (no arguing about his excellent first couple of season with us) when we haven't seen him in more than a year and he wasn't playing well then? The fact that a mere fortnight ago we were in the play-off positions and just six points behind the leaders with our mediocre squad is abruptly irrelevant because that doesn't fit the narrative of incompetence, cowardice, indecision and lies. 

 

 

This is the best sentence in this entire thread. But it is almost lost in this depressing blizzard of selective, self-righteous bleating. Probably a minimum of 80% of football interviews are nothing but platitudes and cliches. I suspect most people are perfectly well aware of this, but it appears they see this one as an opportunity to twist the knife so they'll interpret it accordingly. Oh well...

Rarely I agree with DJ Mortimer but this time I certainly do.

its like we are leaving messi and neymar in the reserves as per many of these nonsense posts.

Boyd FFS! He hasn’t had one good game for us and people are saying get him in the squad? jones has the pace and touch of a corpse and I wouldn’t pick him for the dog and duck reserves never mind the first team.

we spent so long saying we have an old ,slow squad. We went through months of not even creating a chance to score with these losers in the team. Now we have one sticky run after being 6th and everyone is dying to go back to the old people’s home, wipe the soup off the chin of these old crocks and give them a shirt

 

jos is 100 percent right to drop these players and get on with rebuilding the team.

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Tbf, I couldn't care less if Jones, Boyd and Abdi ever play again for us. Says something when Jones has been the best player out of that lot. 

 

I find the constant exclusion of Westwood and Hutchinson a tinsy bit mystifying, as I believe they could still offer something...albeit their form has been so-so for the last year. 

 

Truth be told, the two players we miss most are Hooper and Lee...but I doubt we will ever see these two play again. I'd also like to see Winnall included and the constant niggly injuries of Matias and Nando sure as hell isn't helping. 

 

However, as I stated a few pages back, my biggest issue with Jos is his constant changing of the side. In my view, it is undermining the work he is trying to do. 

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2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Tbf, I couldn't care less if Jones, Boyd and Abdi ever play again for us. Says something when Jones has been the best player out of that lot. 

 

I find the constant exclusion of Westwood and Hutchinson a tinsy bit mystifying, as I believe they could still offer something...albeit their form has been so-so for the last year. 

 

Truth be told, the two players we miss most are Hooper and Lee...but I doubt we will ever see these two play again. I'd also like to see Winnall included and the constant niggly injuries of Matias and Nando sure as hell isn't helping. 

 

However, as I stated a few pages back, my biggest issue with Jos is his constant changing of the side. In my view, it is undermining the work he is trying to do. 

 

Worth remembering that the Westwood and Hutchinson situations are not quite the same (yet, at least). Was only six weeks ago that Hutchenson was pictured in Barcelona seeing a specialist because he was, once again, injured. So constant exclusion is pushing things a bit currently although it could develop that way for sure.

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And you’re right about FF and Matias. We’ve basically been shït since Marco Matias got injured.

 

There’s a sentence that’s hard to believe.

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Just now, Sonny said:

 

Worth remembering that the Westwood and Hutchinson situations are not quite the same (yet, at least). Was only six weeks ago that Hutchenson was pictured in Barcelona seeing a specialist because he was, once again, injured. So constant exclusion is pushing things a bit currently although it could develop that way for sure.

Fair point. 

 

Hutchinson...is he injured or is he fit? I've heard contradictory information on that one. 

 

Funnily enough, I saw him on the train (Manchester to Sheffield) before the game against West Brom a few weeks back. He got off at Dore. 

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We need to move on and so do certain players. The players who took us close in 2 seasons are now past it or completely knackered.

 

The squad has badly needed overhauling. We are at the beginning of that process but if we are to be successful it has to be done.

 

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I think for me Jos and Carlos have polar end/opposite views. Both have merits and  I think really the key is, as always somewhere in the middle.

 

Carlos stuck by his better players regardless of form, fitness or injuries this alineating some of his back ups.

 

Jos is favouring fitness and energy, swapping and changing from game to game, over the value and ability of others, regardless of form, tactics or cohesion. Thus alienating and excluding some of his back ups.

 

Really we need the middle. Play your team to your strengths (in the main) which a side that best gives you the chance of winning. However, should players have injuries or be out of form, they should be dropped. If injured should have to play at least a couple of games to make sure an injury will not repeat and take advice from the doc and physio. If given the go ahead they can resume match duties and step in if form, Injury and fitness of someone in the squad is lost. 

 

That way you can use youngsters too.

 

The main issue I have is Jos is causing this unrest. If he didn't want to play certain players get them out of the door, this removing the issue completely. You don't and you are setting yourself up for a fall (rightly or wrongly) if things aren't going right. He's made is own pool of players smaller by choice, so the benefit of the doubt he had before from me is waining and waining fast.

 

Everyone should have a chance of making the squad for me. 

 

 

If you have youth players, get them on loan to league two, then league one etc, they dont automatically have to develop here, but can still be a key component in the future. Look for a side that plays your type of football. Yes playing them here gives hem direct exposure, but also puts a lot of pressure on them if things don't go well. They should be ones who are given 5 games and then rested for a couple (give them time to reflect and learn).

 

The reason I think most are anointed is our spine is week in fight, organisation and leadership and Westwood and hutch have those abilities. 

 

Dawson is a good keeper, as that save stats show, but what it doesn't tell you is how he's contributed to those shots coming in. He struggles under crosses and doesn't communicate and lead his defense (the fact the defense is not strong enough or have a midfield with enough qualities to help is another story) Westwood is good in both of those areas and it's arguably something the defense need right now. Is using him and acarificing Dawson's progression. Going to help thorniley, Penney and baker more?!?!.

 

For me either Dawson or wildsmith should be one loan somewhere for 6 months, then the other for the other 6 months if you arent going to sell Westwood. 

 

We are soft in the centre, with no organisation. Again 2 qualities hutch has. Is he needed to help get us back on an even keel? Arguably so.

 

Inconsistencies are part and parcel of you guys players, but having experienced pros on the bench to help is a debate you roads yourself when you have kids on the bench that you don't play (so changes if made are the same and do t actually change a game) so what experience are they actually getting?

 

Mix and match sure but for good sake adapt to what's needed during games and use your squad effectively to help you achieve that.

 

It's just the common theme that we are shooting ourselves in the foot again and again in this, transfer activity, youth development etc etc. Sometimes you have to start again, but you do that by selling and reinvesting, not casting aside and ostracizing. 

 

Then you reinvest money from a reach of FF sale etc. Hoarding and abandoning players is ridiculous unless you are a top club like chelsea etc who can afford to do so.  Don't get me wrong, all clubs make mistakes (look at Chelsea with DeBrune) but why hinder your own clubs ability???

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15 minutes ago, full fathom five said:

We will win today and keep a clean sheet, we always beat Norwich, that's football for you.

We really need to. A defeat today, and again on Friday, and I imagine there will be no way back for Jos. We have an ambitious  owner, and 5 defeats in a row would be totally unacceptable with this squad

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1 hour ago, mcmigo said:

Rarely I agree with DJ Mortimer but this time I certainly do.

its like we are leaving messi and neymar in the reserves as per many of these nonsense posts.

Boyd FFS! He hasn’t had one good game for us and people are saying get him in the squad? jones has the pace and touch of a corpse and I wouldn’t pick him for the dog and duck reserves never mind the first team.

we spent so long saying we have an old ,slow squad. We went through months of not even creating a chance to score with these losers in the team. Now we have one sticky run after being 6th and everyone is dying to go back to the old people’s home, wipe the soup off the chin of these old crocks and give them a shirt

 

jos is 100 percent right to drop these players and get on with rebuilding the team.

Jos does not appear to be getting the best out of what he has got. That's the crux. Contrast that with the other side of the city and you see how big a fail it is. Epic

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1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

It costs all managers their job in the end.

 

3 defeats on the spin isn't good.

Couple of wins though and we're back up there.

 

Don't think anyone genuinly expected anything more than mid table really this season.

 

It is all about results. That's the nature of the game. Comfortable mid table, with an eye to the future, blood youngsters, hovering above the bottom three, confidence drains away and where to turn next?

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14 hours ago, Mrmason69 said:

He's under orders from chairman whatever. 

JL doesn't pick the team. If he does then he's incompetent. The person who picks the team doesn't have a clue about football. That's the owner in a nutshell 

Theres no other team in all four leagues who pay over £10m a year for Premier league players not to play.

Wednesday are run by a ruthless dictator who has an agenda at Wednesday that has nothing to do with football. 

 

I pretty much agree ,short and long term chansiri has done a  lot of damage , the 1st one is to alienate the support ,our crowds are dropping badly and a lot might never come back ,if you look at our support we have probably a higher percentage of over 40`s watching us than most clubs, partly down to our decline over the last 20 years and due to chansiri charging structure what`s killing us and getting us a bad name . then he has invested a huge amount of money which 80% has been totally wasted and this is going to set the club back big time ,it could be as short as 1-2 years but if we go down this or next season we could be set back for years as the pub league aint that easy to get out of 

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12 minutes ago, swissmess said:

Jos does not appear to be getting the best out of what he has got. That's the crux. Contrast that with the other side of the city and you see how big a fail it is. Epic

 

Or give credit to Wilder for overperforming 3rd division jounrneymen and some shrewd relativly cheap signings.

 

Perhaps if we hadn't spaffed vast amounts and wasted huge sums of money on contracts and wages and has taken a similar approach Jos wouldn't now be having to be the fall guy as he tries to complete the clean up operation.

 

Also seem to remember Wilder getting some stick early doors into his reign before he was allowed to put his own stamp on the team...

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4 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Or give credit to Wilder for overperforming 3rd division jounrneymen and some shrewd relativly cheap signings.

 

Perhaps if we hadn't spaffed vast amounts and wasted huge sums of money on contracts and wages and has taken a similar approach Jos wouldn't now be having to be the fall guy as he tries to complete the clean up operation.

 

Also seem to remember Wilder getting some stick early doors into his reign before he was allowed to put his own stamp on the team...

To be fair, it didn’t take him long. As you say, he’s crafted a good footballing side from a bunch of third tier journeymen, and a few shrewd buys. The difference is mainly down to the two manager’s coaching abilities

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14 minutes ago, swissmess said:

Contrast that with the other side of the city and you see how big a fail it is. Epic

 

I don't think the situations are comparable, though.

 

It pains me to say it, but the Blunts have gone about things the right way. They've been patient and built their team in a sustainable manner. They know where the team needs strengthening and have done something about it, recruiting shrewdly, signing players who are good value and who fit into their style of playing. We, on the other hand, threw a lot of money at signing all sorts of players, seemingly on a whim. Yes, you could argue that lot have outperformed with what they've got, but that's a lot easier to do when you've systematically built a team and your recruitment policy pays due regard to how individual players fit into that team. We are simply not in that position, which is why we've got to stop obsessing over the exclusion of certain players, have a massive clear out, and start again.

 

That's not something which is going to happen over the course of a few games BTW...........

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Just now, gurujuan said:

The difference is mainly down to the two manager’s coaching abilities

 

Thats not the only difference to be fair is it.

 

One has been in the job nearly 3 years and one has been in his job since January.

 

One has been allowed the time to ditch 36 players out and bring 36 of his own targets in.

 

The other has lost 8 players and been able to bring just  1 player in.

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2 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

I don't think the situations are comparable, though.

 

It pains me to say it, but the Blunts have gone about things the right way. They've been patient and built their team in a sustainable manner. They know where the team needs strengthening and have done something about it, recruiting shrewdly, signing players who are good value and who fit into their style of playing. We, on the other hand, threw a lot of money at signing all sorts of players, seemingly on a whim. Yes, you could argue that lot have outperformed with what they've got, but that's a lot easier to do when you've systematically built a team and your recruitment policy pays due regard to how individual players fit into that team. We are simply not in that position, which is why we've got to stop obsessing over the exclusion of certain players, have a massive clear out, and start again.

 

That's not something which is going to happen over the course of a few games BTW...........

That’s only partly true, in so much as, the way they’ve done it, hasn’t put them in a financial predicament. Ignoring the money side of things, we should still be able to fashion a successful side out of the existing squad

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2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Thats not the only difference to be fair is it.

 

One has been in the job nearly 3 years and one has been in his job since January.

 

One has been allowed the time to ditch 36 players out and bring 36 of his own targets in.

 

The other has lost 8 players and been able to bring just  1 player in.

Wilder was proactive in getting players out though. He trimmed his squad almost immediately, and sent out on loan, most of the development squad. 

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