alanharper Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said: I agree. And but for Sols goal getting chalked off I think we'd a chance of going all the way in '98. Sven. The original shoehorner. Mind. We banked on Owen long after his sell by date. No one dare drop him even when he was clearly on the wane. Hargreave criminally underused when he was bossing it for Bayern in the holding midfield role. Meh. No chance. We went out as soon as we met a decent side in the knockout phase, it's the England way - we haven't beaten one of the "big" footballing nations in the knockout stages of a World Cup since 1966, the only countries we've actually beaten after the group stage in a World Cup since then are Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark and Ecuador. In that time we failed and got knocked out by the Germans 3 times (including the 1982 second group phase), Spain (1982 second group phase), Argentina twice, Brazil and Portugal. And didn't make it out of the group in 2014. If we'd squeezed past Argentina in 98, to go all the way we'd have had to then also beat a strong Netherlands side in the quarters, Brazil in the semi, and France in the final! 1990 was our best chance ever to replicate 1966 and we blew that one in the most English way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
150 miles north Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 5 hours ago, j17tjp said: I reckon they prob had a 3some with Eileen Drewery too your going to hell for that one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spuddy01 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, alanharper said: No chance. We went out as soon as we met a decent side in the knockout phase, it's the England way - we haven't beaten one of the "big" footballing nations in the knockout stages of a World Cup since 1966, the only countries we've actually beaten after the group stage in a World Cup since then are Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark and Ecuador. In that time we failed and got knocked out by the Germans 3 times (including the 1982 second group phase), Spain (1982 second group phase), Argentina twice, Brazil and Portugal. And didn't make it out of the group in 2014. If we'd squeezed past Argentina in 98, to go all the way we'd have had to then also beat a strong Netherlands side in the quarters, Brazil in the semi, and France in the final! 1990 was our best chance ever to replicate 1966 and we blew that one in the most English way possible. We came sooo close that night as well. Waddle hitting the post in the final minutes, he even turned to celebrate cause he thought he’d scored. I was 12 and absolutely gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 totally agree with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Spuddy01 said: It was good enough to win the Euros in 04 I think, if Rooney hadn’t been sent off who knows what could’ve happened in that game and afterwards. The main problem with English teams is we just don’t have that winning mentality that the Germans/Spanish /Italians have. Italy don’t have any world class players but they know how to win games in tournaments. it would probably help is if every 3rd pass wasnt a long ball up front meaning we lose possession for the next 5 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, alanharper said: No chance. We went out as soon as we met a decent side in the knockout phase, it's the England way - we haven't beaten one of the "big" footballing nations in the knockout stages of a World Cup since 1966, the only countries we've actually beaten after the group stage in a World Cup since then are Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark and Ecuador. In that time we failed and got knocked out by the Germans 3 times (including the 1982 second group phase), Spain (1982 second group phase), Argentina twice, Brazil and Portugal. And didn't make it out of the group in 2014. If we'd squeezed past Argentina in 98, to go all the way we'd have had to then also beat a strong Netherlands side in the quarters, Brazil in the semi, and France in the final! 1990 was our best chance ever to replicate 1966 and we blew that one in the most English way possible. France were the standout team no question. Not a great Brazil side though. They only just beat Scotland remember! I just think with the way it was panning out. We'd have had a shout. The ten men and dissallowed goal. I think we were shafted. '90 was a great chance. Though there is a lot of rose tinted about it I think due to it being a warm summer, Pavarotti and Gascoigne crying. It's painted really as the time England went 3-5-2 and played great. But at least 3 of those games we ended up bringing Steven on and going 4-4-2 to get out of jail. Mind...it was still our best chance of winning it because that wasn't a very good Argentina side in the final and I'd have fancied us to do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 when was the last time england beat a top 10 ranked side in a tournament, not a friendly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 We've gone from looking promising and failing twenty years ago to being absolutely abysmal in International tournaments, in the last three we've easily been amongst the bottom five competitors, disgracefully poor. Whilst the Premier League/Sky (or other TV company) has its stranglehold on the game we will continually be light years behind our European /World counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) I'm hopeful that the lads will show a bit of youthful enthusiasm out there this summer. Not expecting anything and that's the way to be isn't it. Anything else is a bonus. Edited May 18, 2018 by Lord Snooty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 The last time i got genuinely excited about watching England was 96 and 98. For me we have never replaced the likes of sheringham, gascoigne, beardsley etc Golden generation never showed up and we always played awful formations trying to accommodate lampard and gerrard. why we just couldnt have one as a sub i will never know. I took a nigerian work colleague to watch England at Wembley 3 or 4 years ago. He is football mad. Boyhood dream to watch England at Wembley. After an hour or so he asked to leave. Thank you i thought, the game was drivel. I think it was 0-0 against Denmark or Norway. Just awful. If i watch the world cup it wont be to watch England who bore me consistently, it will be to watch to see what other teams can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, billyblack said: The last time i got genuinely excited about watching England was 96 and 98. For me we have never replaced the likes of sheringham, gascoigne, beardsley etc Golden generation never showed up and we always played awful formations trying to accommodate lampard and gerrard. why we just couldnt have one as a sub i will never know. I took a nigerian work colleague to watch England at Wembley 3 or 4 years ago. He is football mad. Boyhood dream to watch England at Wembley. After an hour or so he asked to leave. Thank you i thought, the game was drivel. I think it was 0-0 against Denmark or Norway. Just awful. If i watch the world cup it wont be to watch England who bore me consistently, it will be to watch to see what other teams can do. Unfortunately like the Euro's the introduction of far too many teams into the final will probably make the whole tournament a bore (like the last Euro's), too many mismatched teams leads to totally stale games, the Euro's used to be fantastic when it was a sixteen team finals (we were awful apart from '96). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, toppOwl said: Unfortunately like the Euro's the introduction of far too many teams into the final will probably make the whole tournament a bore (like the last Euro's), too many mismatched teams leads to totally stale games, the Euro's used to be fantastic when it was a sixteen team finals (we were awful apart from '96). all about the money mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Shutt is God Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 During the "golden generation" period we constantly fell into the trap of trying to shoehorn players in which meant we never got the best of many of the players. It was clear as day Gerrard and Lampard, two fine players, were not right to play together in the centre and we had no quality on the left so played Cole there and later I think Trevor Sinclair. We had the players to do better than we did and look at the top players club form they tended to have a ball winner with them who allowed them to play their game. For years we just stuck with it. All that said I think a lot of England's failing have come down to a mentality issue and not having the mental strength required to deal with the pressure put on them by the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earlsfieldowl Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Spuddy01 said: He’s right though, barring 04 when we lost to Portugal in the quarters we’ve been sheite in every tournament we’ve gone to. Well let’s face it we haven’t done a huge amount since Euro ‘96. Erickson today banging on about the players being tired in ‘06. We were so lacklustre - devoid of any inspiration. ‘02 was a opportunity missed IMO - we could have beaten Brazil with a bit more belief.. then only South Korea and a very average Germany stood in the way of glory. Belgium in the last WC were similar - young team with some talent, hough they were hampered by a truly clueless manager. The worst effort had to be under Capello though - that game against the Germans stuck in mind for a long while after. Abject. Edited May 18, 2018 by Earlsfieldowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toppOwl Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: Well let’s face it we haven’t done a huge amount since Euro ‘96. Erickson today banging on about the players being tired in ‘06. We were so lacklustre - devoid of any inspiration. ‘02 was a opportunity missed IMO - we could have beaten Brazil with a bit more belief.. then only Turkey and a very average Germany stood in the way of glory. Belgium in the last WC were similar - young team with some talent, hough they were hampered by a truly clueless manager. The worst effort had to be under Capello though - that game against the Germans stuck in mind for a long while after. Abject. That Brazil game was soooo frustrating, we went 1-0 up and then just seemed to freeze and give up, bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Spuddy01 said: It was good enough to win the Euros in 04 I think, if Rooney hadn’t been sent off who knows what could’ve happened in that game and afterwards. The main problem with English teams is we just don’t have that winning mentality that the Germans/Spanish /Italians have. Italy don’t have any world class players but they know how to win games in tournaments. Hit the nail on the head. We are a nation of losers who always support the underdog, Man Utd were hated because they swept all before them under Ferguson and Liverpool in the eighties at home and in Europe, we would much rather have the underdog win because we are British. It's not just Football either in all sports we always seem to make a thing about the less skilled, less facied side winning. Show any sort for winning mentality over here and you are called arrogant, Abroad the attitude is diffrent and winning is praised in public and in the media. Lewis Hamilton, Andy Murray even as far back as Steve Davis in the Snooker when he was beaten by the underdog, We just don't like a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 The typical English style isn’t good enough at international level any longer, we had always been about energy and physicality but most sides are really fit and you can’t tackle anyone. On a technical side of things others were better and we have been slow to catch up but perhaps we are now. The “golden generation” were great individuals but we never got them playing properly as a team, the closest was under Sven. Ironically despite what I said about the traditional English style, I do think a traditional centre forward is what we are lacking in the squad. If a team shuts up shop I think we may struggle to break them down with the likes of Vardy and Rashford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Yorks Owl Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said: France were the standout team no question. Not a great Brazil side though. They only just beat Scotland remember! I just think with the way it was panning out. We'd have had a shout. The ten men and dissallowed goal. I think we were shafted. '90 was a great chance. Though there is a lot of rose tinted about it I think due to it being a warm summer, Pavarotti and Gascoigne crying. It's painted really as the time England went 3-5-2 and played great. But at least 3 of those games we ended up bringing Steven on and going 4-4-2 to get out of jail. Mind...it was still our best chance of winning it because that wasn't a very good Argentina side in the final and I'd have fancied us to do them. Have to agree about 1998 and greatest regret for me was that Hoddle never had the chance to complete his stint as England manager. Similar to Venables he was tactically strong and seemed to command the players respect. I’m not sure whether the FA had any choice about sacking him, but it was so disappointing that it wasn’t for football reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, East Yorks Owl said: Have to agree about 1998 and greatest regret for me was that Hoddle never had the chance to complete his stint as England manager. Similar to Venables he was tactically strong and seemed to command the players respect. I’m not sure whether the FA had any choice about sacking him, but it was so disappointing that it wasn’t for football reasons. Two managers doing a good job. Both given the boot for non footballing reasons. One for his 'fixtures and fittings' The other for his God bothering beliefs. Svens doing a poor job with the players at his disposal AND putting it about like a spare prickk at a knock shop wedding he got a two year extension! Crackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleblue Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Why's he speaking with a geordie accent, he's from Sheffield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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