End of season clear out

[cookeh]

Since by all accounts we're staring FFP in the face, then we're going to have to be a bit brutal this summer.

Which is a shame, because this squad, under Jos for next season, i think would have a good run at promotion.

 

Still.. reality has to hit home and unfortunately we have some obvious saleable assets that people probably won't like.

 

#1 is hooper.

Especially with Carlos in place at Swansea, I can see us getting an offer north of 8m for Hoops once he's back fit.

That's the sort of money that makes a massive difference to our books, for a player that we don't actually need.

Quality player on his day, but 30 now and tends to pick up knocks. We'd be better cashing in.

 

#2 Winnall

Been at Derby, still at Derby even tho he's injured. Seems like this deal is already as good as done. 5m+ in today's market, so very good business for us.

 

#3 Westwood.

Best keeper in the league on his day, but we have wildsmith and dawson. Wildsmith's shown himself very capable in westwood's absense, and a few million for westwood would do our balance no harm at all. Wildsmith is good enough for us to go up with him in goal, especially when you consider that for most of his games he's not exactly had a reliable defense infront of him. We'd be fine without westwood.

 

Butterfield's loan finishes, so he can go.

Venancio's loan finishes, so unfortunately he can go.

Wallace is out of contract and should be moved on.

Loovens is out of contract and should be moved on.

Pudil is out of contract and should be renewed.

Nuhiu's out of contract and should be renewed.

 

Hopefully the above sorts out the financial issues and so the rest is just about sorting out the side for next season. I'm going to assume we are going to carry on with 352.

 

Hunt/Palmer - I don't really think either are good enough, but neither are so bad that we desperately need rid of them. If the rest of the team is solid, then we can carry either of them, they're not THAT bad.

Fox - Bought as a left back. Not good enough as a wing back, but not a disaster as a 6th choice centerback. I'd keep him, he's cheap cover.

Hutch - Top player on his day, but if we're honest we know we can't rely on him to be fit. we don't have the luxury of being able to pay full whack for a player who can only play 50-60% of the time at best.

Lee - Seems to have just disappeared. Fingers crossed he's back for next season, but treating that as just a bonus at this point.

Jones - Got a year left, but time to go. Going to be really hard to shift tho, i imagine, as he seems happy enough when not playing.

Abdi - Depressing that he's still not involved. Thought when Jos said he was back it might be a new beginning for him, but looks like another just going to see out the final year of his contract while barely seeing the pitch next season.

Matias - Time to go. Probably still saleable due to just how good he was in Portugal, but we'd probably be lucky to get 1m back for him.

Boyd - Just not what we need. He doesn't fit anywhere in a 352 and is doubtless on heavy wages. Seeing out his final year next season.

Rhodes - Not getting a shout right now due to the form of Nuhiu and Joao. But if Nuhiu can become the player he suddenly is, then I've no doubt Rhodes has it in him to recover and come good for us.

Fletch - People seem to have decided he's injury prone, but not sure where that's come from. 2 years left, difficult to sell, but could form a good partnership with Rhodes.

 

Signing wise.. there's really 3 key ones.

We need a left wing back. 100%, no questions asked, quality, quick left sider.

 

Centerback.. either we bring Venancio back on a proper deal and make him part of our starting back 3, or we splash some money on a top end leader to play in the middle of the 3, with Lees right and Thorniley/vAken left. Tommy Elphick or someone like that. If we buy in that player, we don't keep Venancio. Simple as that. Fred's done ok since really coming into the side, but but keeping him and signing another is how we end up with a bloated squad and no money. Lees, van Aken, Thorniley, Pudil, Fox and one other.

 

Central midfield. Potentially losing5 players from this position and 2 'sort ofs'. Hutch, Lee, Jones, Abdi, Butterfield. Plus Wallace and Boyd. We're still ok, with Pessy, Bannan and Reach. Clare needs to sign to add depth, and Nando could play as the advanced of the 3, behind 2 strikers. We need to replace Hutch really. Someone to do the dirty work and take a hold of games.

[BRADDO]

46 minutes ago, Owl At Risk said:

 

Eh? Winnall is one of the few players with any resell value...and probably the only one we'd actually make a good profit on.

Yes, that's why I would prefer to release him. 

[Mr Hooper]

5 minutes ago, HOOTIE AND THE poo TU said:

Would you go to a new job on less money?

 

 

No I wouldn't.

 

But I'm not a professional footballer. And yes although there are footballers out there who treat this as just that, a job.

There are also footballers out there who are living their dream and want to play games and score goals.

 

I can't speak for the named players because I don't know them personally. But I'd like to think they'd want to continue their career and make memories playing football.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Mr Hooper

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

Just now, Mr Hooper said:

 

No I wouldn't.

 

But I'm not a professional footballer. And yes although there are footballers out there who treat this as just that, a job.

There are also footballers out there who are living their dream and want to play games and score goals.

 

I can't speak for the named players because I don't know them personally. But I'd like to this they'd want to continue their career and make memories playing football.

I think some of our players are on that big a wad, no other club outside the Premier could afford to sign them and take their wages on, never mind pay a transfer fee

[BARMYARMY2010]

6 minutes ago, HOOTIE AND THE poo TU said:

Yeah, until I actually saw him play, has he got a twin?

The only part i was interested in was "yeh" thought you were going to try and rewrite things...... owlstalk stylee. 

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

4 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said:

The only part i was interested in was "yeh" thought you were going to try and rewrite things...... owlstalk stylee. 

Nah mate

 

I was excited that we were signing a Premiership striker, and full international

 

Other than the odd performance, Newcastle at Hillsborough springs to mind, I've yet to see an ex-premier striker

 

In fairness to Fletcher, we've ruined plenty of strikers recently through our insistance on keeping possession, passing sideways, and not throwing crosses into the box

 

So it could be he just needs the right service

 

I'm a little concerned about the amount of Championship defenders that have ad Fletcher in their back pocket though

[Philb125]

2 hours ago, Mr Hooper said:

Interesting thinking about which players other teams would actually want.

 

Fletcher - I wouldn't mind keeping him as a backup striker, he causes problems. But agreed, if we did sell him, it wouldn't be the worst decision in the world.

Who would buy him? - I reckon a team like Rangers would give you 1/2 million for him and could afford his wages.

 

Matias - Fed up of him giving us hope with his cameo appearances only to injure himself again and not play for another 3 months.

Who would buy him? - We probably wouldn't get an awful lot for him and I can imagine him going back to Portugal for the warm weather. I would imagine it'll be an 'undisclosed' fee. (in other words 100k)

 

Palmer - Hasn't been good enough for years, Hunt is miles better. AND although i'm a fan of Hunt, I would imagine we'll be looking for a new first choice right back in the summer, so bye bye Palmer.

Who would buy him? - His level is League 1 and he's still got a number of years ahead of him, so any League 1 team wanting to challenge for the play offs.

 

Fox - He frustrates me so much, he quite simply doesn't have the skills we need for a left back. No pace, no fight. But I can see Jos keeping him as a backup.

Who would buy him? - Again a league 1 club.

 

Abdi - Same as Matias, get him out of the club. Stealing a wage.

Who would buy him? -  Hopefully a club from China or the MLS, they'll pay his big wages.

 

Rhodes - Time to admit it's not going to work for him, and luckily because of his record another Championship club would still pay money for him.

Who would buy him? - Ipswich, go back to his first team and finish his career there. We'd get 3/4 million for him.

 

Loovens & Wallace - IF we manage to get rid of the all the above, I'd keep these 2 as backups, just so were not breaking up the team completely.

Few things:

 

Your back up players (fletcher as you’d like to have him) can’t be earning more than most of the first team, that’s financial suicide. He either plays or goes. I quite like him, feel harshly treated on here but our current financial situation probably doesn’t allow for 6-7 forwards of which some are on 30-40k each, for that reason alone I’d imagine he was free to leave if a club would take him. 

 

Matias & Abdi - couldn’t agree more! So many false dawns! 

 

Palmer & Fox - probably have a combined salary below both Loovens or Wallace... so I’d keep as squad players. Just hope they are not required to play 15-20 games or more. 5-10 is fine and getting players who are content with that like Palmer, Fox, Nuhiu is a challenge so when you have them you tend to keep them. 

 

Rhodes: mick micarthy commented to Tony cascarino that ipswich enquirer in Jan but we’re put off by the 40k per week salary. Double that of their highest paid players. I could see him playing for relegated team or Hull next year, even if it’s a loan move.

 

Wallace and Loovens.... easiest way the club has to cut costs is letting them go and also Pudil. No worry of who wants them but instead thank them for service and replace with Clare, Thornly and AN Other, whilst saving 10s of thousands every week. 

[Owl At Risk]

24 minutes ago, BRADDO said:

Yes, that's why I would prefer to release him. 

So you mean sell him then?

Release, to me, implies letting him go for nothing.

[BRADDO]

3 minutes ago, Owl At Risk said:

So you mean sell him then?

Release, to me, implies letting him go for nothing.

Yes mate. Sell Winnall. Raise some cash and maybe Rhodes out on loan if Jos can't do the special thing he has done for the two currently up front.

[Costello 77]

When Jos sits down with the owner at the end of the season.... it's going to be a long and sombre meeting imo...the only way out of this pickle is two sell at least 2 of our best players..

 

Just can't see another way personally.

 

WTF!?

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

19 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

When Jos sits down with the owner at the end of the season.... it's going to be a long and sombre meeting imo...the only way out of this pickle is two sell at least 2 of our best players..

 

Just can't see another way personally.

 

WTF!?

Yep, that's how I see it

[Lord Snooty]

30 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

When Jos sits down with the owner at the end of the season.... it's going to be a long and sombre meeting imo...the only way out of this pickle is two sell at least 2 of our best players..

 

Just can't see another way personally.

 

WTF!?

 

Thing is ...how do you judge who our best players are?

At one time transfer fees might have been the guide. 

But for my money our 'best' players are the ones who actually cost us bugger all. 

[Costello 77]

Just now, Lord Snooty said:

 

Thing is ...how do you judge who our best players are?

At one time transfer fees might have been the guide. 

But for my money our 'best' players are the ones who actually cost us bugger all. 

Fair point.. saleable is more accurate.

Point stands tho...the clear out so many support is a fallacy... we may be forced to sell FF and Westwood...even Lees.

 

WTF!?

[Lord Snooty]

19 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Fair point.. saleable is more accurate.

Point stands tho...the clear out so many support is a fallacy... we may be forced to sell FF and Westwood...even Lees.

 

WTF!?

 

I think the transfer business will all surround Fernando and whether he fits in to what Jos wants to do. 

 

He's our , I won't say best player that's subjective,  but certainly  most saleable player. 

 

Big month on the pitch coming up where I think Jos will make his mind up on him and where he sees him playing. 

 

Fernando could end up being a Dalian...

Great player. ..but of you can get two in with the money that strengthen other areas.. and you a better 'whole' ....do you do it?...

 

Big big summer ahead.

 

 

[beloved_aunt]

2 hours ago, Owl At Risk said:

 

Eh? Winnall is one of the few players with any resell value...and probably the only one we'd actually make a good profit on.

 

I think Winnall will actually turn out to have been a shrewd purchase.  Not in the sense that he'll be a starter for us and score loads of goals, but that we bough him for very little from a direct rival that were then only a couple of places and points behind us.  He went on to score some important goals for us as we made the play offs and the rivals we'd ruined by nicking their striker sunk without a trace.  The this summer we'll probably be able to flog him at a significant profit when we need some quick cash for FFP reasons.

 

Not a bad business deal. 

[beloved_aunt]

 

1 hour ago, Philb125 said:

Your back up players (fletcher as you’d like to have him) can’t be earning more than most of the first team, that’s financial suicide. He either plays or goes. I quite like him, feel harshly treated on here but our current financial situation probably doesn’t allow for 6-7 forwards of which some are on 30-40k each, for that reason alone I’d imagine he was free to leave if a club would take him. 

 

I think people are being a bit harsh on Fletcher by lumping him in with the likes of Abdi/Jones/Rhodes as people who earn big wages and don't contribute anything.

 

Fair enough he's injured at the moment (and hardly alone in that) but he was fit most of last season and contributed when he did.  There was that period in the autumn (around the time he scored a quality goal against Blackburn) when he scored or assisted in 5 consecutive games and he was crucial for us in the run in to finish 4th.  Likewise our best performances this season (think Leeds at home) have often come when he started with Hooper.

 

If Jos can turn Big Dave into a 9 goals in 12 starts striker imagine what he can do with Fletcher who throughout his career has generally played at a higher level and scored more goals than him? 

[Ante's Bubbly]

On 03/04/2018 at 06:59, Nath83 said:

Probably still too early to be thinking about the end of season changes needed, but couldn’t help myself now I'm sure we're safe.

I reckon we should move out 10 players:
Palmer
Loovens
Fox
Butterfield
Jones
Wallace
Abdi
Matias
Rhodes
Fletcher

 

In return, I think we need to sign 6:
.

 

I agree with the concept of getting all the high wage earners out, because the huge increase in wages is what has been tipping us over the edge regarding FFP, combined of course with putting all our £8M of eggs in one basket, when we decided to buy Rhodes. It was a good try but it did not work out. Similarly with Winnall. He is lively and scores a few goals, but if he is upsetting the team spirit and half the players want to kill him, the negatives outweigh the positives.

 

Philosophy - Better value for money

We should get some money in for some of the players on the list and very little or nothing at all for others, but again we need more positives than negatives from as much of the squad as possible, we cannot afford to carry anywhere near as many players as we have recently. We have become a pension booster for semi retired players recently, so I think that any high wage earners that have not been pulling their weight over the last couple of years, especially if there is any chance of getting money in for them, should also go. I would therefore add Hutchinson, Westwood, Winall and Boyd to the list, because all four will be on high to very high wages, all four have had long lay offs this season and we can get younger, fitter players, who are not so well known and will cost much less in wages, that may turn out to be very good players. Unfortunately recently, we have been going (again) for players who were once very good, or once (or twice) got promoted with other teams (with other players), or have names that we all know. I have nothing against these experienced players, but having two or three in your squad is one thing, we have a squad that consists mainly of such players. The last time we had so many ex stars on high wages, we got relegated from the top flight. Please let's not go down that route again.

 

Coming In - 6 or 7

A younger (under 27 years old) striker that fits in with what Jos wants up front would be a good move if Hirst does go and a winger with pace and a football brain, would be another big boost. Similarly for the other players being replaced. Younger pacier players with good stamina for at least one new left back, unless Penney can be utilised, a right back, a creative midfielder and a centre half. I would expect that a lot of the players coming in could be long term loans with pre-contractual agreements in place and that 14 may go with just six or seven coming in. 

 

Going Out - 14

Palmer - Peaked a few years ago, now a weak spot and always worth a goal or good chance for the opposition. Stopped improving & actually gone backwards. 
Loovens - Done well for us, but should have been replaced two or three seasons ago when well past his best. 
Fox - Similar to Palmer. Not good enough.
Butterfield - As above
Jones - Again past his best now.
Wallace - Fully fit, still an asset, but unfortunately not a two game a week player and out too often lately. Needs replacing with a younger faster winger.
Abdi - This looked a great signing but turned out to be a very bad move for us. 
Matias - Another very bad gamble
Rhodes - Very disappointed by him and his low contribution all round. Nice bloke, but a waste of our money I'm afraid.
Fletcher - His age, high wages and low goal ratio makes you wonder how we could be so stupid. He has been keeping out Nuhiu & Joao!.

Westwood - A great servant, but mistakes have crept into his game more and more, as have injuries. I actually prefer Wildsmith or Dawson in goal now.

Boyd - Like Fletcher, not prolific enough, on high wages, injury prone and not a team or game changer.

Hutchinson - Far from filling me with confidence, I always feel nervous when he is on the pitch. Spends more than half the season out, so economically unsound.

Winall - Football wise he is ok and gives us something a bit different up front, but his self love and attitude to team mates stinks. Bad egg, get rid.

 

Summary

Maybe Jos may feel he can get more out of a couple of players, but quite honestly we have seen Adthe and Lucas flourish under him, so maybe Boyd and Winnall could be turned around a bit, but quite honestly, if there is money available for either of these players I think it should be grabbed and saved or re-invested depending on how we do bringing players in. If all 14 above were to leave the club tomorrow and be replaced with 7 younger, fitter players with potential, we would be instantly better off. If all 14 of my players to leave, actually left the club, I think we should then prioritise on the following new players:- left back, centre half, creative midfielder and right back, with a right sided winger, promising young striker and a second left back next on the list.

 

I do not know enough about Kean, but could imagine that if Westwood did go, another more experienced goalie may come in, although for my money, Dawson and Wildsmith are more than capable and will only improve now, the more experience they get.

[gurujuan]

I’ve said before, we can do this with loans, and we may have to, with no likelihood of many leaving 

We will get money for Hirst and Clare, but it probably won’t be much Ironically, they are two players that I’d rather keep Not because they are integral members of the first team, but rather what they represent

They are the shining lights, along with Wildsmith, of our age group production line

[Ante's Bubbly]

I am guessing also that most of our team changes rely on Jos and Chansiri having a clear plan for player recruitment, with fixed players already being targeted as possible new signings and the priority players being earmarked already as, "must haves". 

 

I am so disappointed with the 14 players in my out list, that I would be happy just for them to go, even if it means out on loan or with zero return for some of them, as long as it reduces the wage bill and allows us to get loan players or cheaper, more sensible players in. We have played without most of these players for a good chunk of the season, so fit half decent players who can come in and do a good job rather than sitting in the sick room, being paid small fortunes has got to be better football wise and business wise, hasn't it?

 

Don't forget that we have already got rid of a few players with very little return, such as Lachman, Bus and McGoogan.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Ante's Bubbly

[bobowl]

I don't know if i've got this wrong, but didn't i read that even if we sell most of our players it wouldn't now count against FFP?. So it's either go for broke, or just accept that we are going to be punished for a few years and prepair to start again. Why does everyone keep saying we are gonna sell players when our chairman hasn't sold anyone in nearly 3 years?. Big Dave needs to be kept. After all the abuse he's taken over the years he really has shown what a pro he is. Has anyone else noticed how much fitter he looks? under Carlos he had a massive gut.