The Taylor report.

[WatfordOwl]

The question would be as to whether supporters 'genuinely' want standing back.

 

Game has changed since the era of standing, fans have changed and the attitude of policing at football has also changed.

 

Getting it past H&S in the bigger English stadia is another matter.

[fred mciver]

Taylor cleared fans and also essentially blamed Police , organisation , etc.

 

SYP helped convict themselves, including taking blood samples of deceased that showed non of them were drunk- then twisting evidence , etc.

 

Went to  Bayern Munich's last year, including stadium tour (has skin on stadium to keep in warmth and noise).

 

Showed how safe a standing area can be, while also greatly adding to ground atmosphere (mostly dead in EPL).

 

OP helped stimulate a good debate here. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by fred mciver

[Lythamowl]

I doubt it would aid any debate here. If any of us have the temerity to stray from the party line it is shut down north korea style.

 

for what its worth I doubt we'll see standing in any signifacant numbers anytime soon.

[elyowl1]

In my mind the biggest issue was the fencing , pretty sure no fencing people could have escaped the crush far easier. 

 

Poor policing contributed no doubt , It could have been far far worse given stadium conditions back then , imagine a stand like Valley parade with fencing like we had.

 

Thank god that nightmare scenario never happened. 

[Hitcat]

Never understood this clamber for a return to standing. Why stand when you can sit? Or are people just pining for the past? Next you'll be wanting somewhere to park your horse. 

[sheffsteel]

1 hour ago, room0035 said:

Or here is an idea how many people have died in this Country from stadium riots or violence since the stadiums were made all seater.  ANSWER 0 so lets keep it that way.

 

You want to stand - stand outside and let those wanting a seat sit in the stadium. 

 

But that’s like saying “how many fans have died when matches have been played behind closed doors?”

Non, so let’s play every match behind closed doors with no fans as that’s the safest format.

 

Theres has been no deaths or injuries with rail seating, so it’s proven to be safe.

Surely it’s best to give fans as much choice as possible, cheap or expensive seats, seating or standing.

Edited February 27, 2018 by sheffsteel

[Belfast Owl 2]

1 hour ago, room0035 said:

Or here is an idea how many people have died in this Country from stadium riots or violence since the stadiums were made all seater.  ANSWER 0 so lets keep it that way.

 

You want to stand - stand outside and let those wanting a seat sit in the stadium. 

 

Or have standing areas for those who want to stand?

 

 

[sheffsteel]

44 minutes ago, WatfordOwl said:

The question would be as to whether supporters 'genuinely' want standing back.

 

Game has changed since the era of standing, fans have changed and the attitude of policing at football has also changed.

 

Getting it past H&S in the bigger English stadia is another matter.

 

Theres been loads of research and a significant number want standing to return.

If it’s proven to be safer then surely the Police and H&S can’t have any complaints.

i think the more pressing factors are cost to convert to rail seats, the stand/ seating ratio and the price clubs will charge to stand.

ive heard reports that it’s £1000 to buy a rail seat, so it’s expensive to convert and also heard that in the UK

intitlaly if a stand holds 3000 seats, then it only going to be allowed to have 3000 rail seats, so capacity won’t initially increase.

Also as the conversion is so expensive then I don’t believe standing will be cheaper than sitting, so it won’t offer cheaper admission prices.

[flo]

People stand behind their seats anyway so does it matter that much. 

[room0035]

10 minutes ago, sheffsteel said:

 

But that’s like saying “how many fans have died when matches have been played behind closed doors?”

Non, so let’s play every match behind closed doors with no fans as that’s the safest format.

 

Theres has been no deaths or injuries with rail seating, so it’s proven to be safe.

Surely it’s best to give fans as much choice as possible, cheap or expensive seats, seating or standing.

 

Standing is not a good idea we have learnt from disasters in the past - but clearly enough time has past that it will take another disaster or death of those less vulnerable until we close this idea for good.

 

I keep hearing this is affects the atmosphere excuse - it doesn't and the video about Celtic letting their Ultra's stand what could possible go wrong, they seem to be abl to riot sat down think what they could do taking a run up.

[Weshallovercome]

Feel a bit guilty now for the supporters who don't want standing back, they must have had a crap time at the playoff final.

[pgmetcalf]

2 hours ago, Plonk said:

Not sure if this is the right section, but was thinking the other day, that the initial report into the semi final disaster (the Taylor report) largely blamed the Liverpool fans, and was fairly scathing of football fans in general. This led to all seater stadiums.

Now that report has been largely dismantled by the most recent enquiry, which absolved fans totally , what is the justification for football now being treat differently to all other sports with regard to standing?

please feel free to move, but it is a genuine question and one I would like to hear people’s views on, and yes I know it still won't happen, but the justification for it has been proved to be unrealistic hasn’t it?

 

 

Well he's a Tory isn't he, he hates football fans, miners, drinkers etc. They all have a fear of large crowds and being lynched. And look who made football clubs put up fencing in the first place ... and why was that considered in the inquest? 

[room0035]

So for those that want standing will you be taking you kids with you to games or letting them stay at home, as i would risk it in there with small kids. 

 

If a standing area is just that so be it but its not, you are constantly moving and you only need one or two prats who have drank too much in their with you and you could have a lot of problems.

 

Celtic fans travel through Europe with team and have shown game after game after game that in stadiums where they can stand on 90% of the time there is some sort of violence that happens. 

 

I clearly am in the minority I don't want a return to the time when hooligans ran our game, where the action of a few affect the whole stand, where the safety of my family would be at risk and I would not be able to do a thing about it. Nah not for me let seat stay and football be for all not just the hooligans that want to get pissed and cause trouble.

[pgmetcalf]

1 minute ago, room0035 said:

So for those that want standing will you be taking you kids with you to games or letting them stay at home, as i would risk it in there with small kids. 

 

If a standing area is just that so be it but its not, you are constantly moving and you only need one or two prats who have drank too much in their with you and you could have a lot of problems.

 

Celtic fans travel through Europe with team and have shown game after game after game that in stadiums where they can stand on 90% of the time there is some sort of violence that happens. 

 

I clearly am in the minority I don't want a return to the time when hooligans ran our game, where the action of a few affect the whole stand, where the safety of my family would be at risk and I would not be able to do a thing about it. Nah not for me let seat stay and football be for all not just the hooligans that want to get pissed and cause trouble.

 

 

????  wherever large crowds congregate there will always be idiots, you get them in the South stand, North stand as well as the kop

[Big Malc]

Well, I never realised that the hoolies of the 70’s & 80’s struggled so much with the logistics of a plastic seat that they decided to give it all up.  You live and learn.

[room0035]

Below is from some views on how to reduce/remove hooligan from football see point 3 - the authorities thought it helped and can be seen in this country it is not the issue it once was in the 70's and 80's. 

 

Is it down to the all seater stadiums we will find out if standing is ever allowed to return.

 

 

Anti-hooligan measures[edit]

Police and civil authorities in various countries with hooligan problems have taken a number of measures, including:

• banning items that could be used as weapons or missiles in stadia, and searching suspected hooligans
• banning identified hooligans from stadia, either formally via judicial orders, or informally by denying them admittance on the day
• moving to all-seated stadia, which reduces the risk of disorderly crowd movement
• segregating opposing fans, and fencing enclosures to keep fans away from each other and off the pitch
• banning opposing fans from matches and/or ordering specific matches to be played behind closed doors
• compiling registers of known hooligans
• restricting the ability of known hooligans to travel overseas.

[East coast owl]

North stand is standing. Especially the end where the finger pointing takes place.