Carlos Inners!

[CrosbyKitchens]

2 minutes ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

We have our Wilder: He's the bloke everyone is desperate to fire.

 

Playoff final in the first year because it took teams by surprise, teams learned to buckle down against us and we have more difficulty.

 

Also, when it comes to Wilder, one swallow does not make a summer.  I'm predicting United finish right around where we are now, if not a little lower. Injuries will take their toll, and they'll get found out - if they haven't already (1 win, 1 draw, 3 losses in the last five).

 

And to answer your question, my answer is I don't know enough about Wilder to be sure, but my intuition says no: As far as I can see we're a squad staffed to play one style of football, and it's not the style Wilder has his bunch playing.  We couldn't play their game - don't have the quickness for it.  In fact I think any significant change of style for us, including by CC, is square peg into a round hole and wouldn't be pretty.

 

We're a very one dimensional squad in my opinion.

 

Yet, we're dynamic and attacking when we're chasing a game and playing three up front. That doesn't really make sense. It's clear that he will not let these players loose until we're losing.

 

He always talks about the second phase of the attack and that leads us to turning round when we're going forward to look for support players. We have a great attacking squad and he does not let them play. When was the last time you saw one of our players run through on goal from a through ball. It doesn't happen because we're so slow in the transition. That's not all about pace, it's about attitude.

 

 

[Indoor Owl]

9 minutes ago, CrosbyKitchens said:

Yet, we're dynamic and attacking when we're chasing a game and playing three up front. That doesn't really make sense. It's clear that he will not let these players loose until we're losing.

 

He always talks about the second phase of the attack and that leads us to turning round when we're going forward to look for support players. We have a great attacking squad and he does not let them play. When was the last time you saw one of our players run through on goal from a through ball. It doesn't happen because we're so slow in the transition. That's not all about pace, it's about attitude.

 

 

 

Because we're throwing everything at them.

 

Norwich is a perfect example of what happens when you play a more disciplined side and try that - you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar because you're bombing forward.

 

If it was really that simple to just play all out attack because every game is there for the taking, do you not think more teams would do it?

 

Personally, I'd love it if every opponent came at us like that - we'd be pumping teams 4 or 5 goals to 1.

 

And the notion that he somehow doesn't let them play is nonsense - we attempt all sorts of through plays, yet are unable to get to them, or we don't win the ball.  I have lost count of how many times Fletcher makes a token jump without even really trying to win the ball.

 

Where we usually do well are the short through balls: Bannan feeding Hooper or Lee, FF last year.  Sliding through the top of the box.

 

Where we've been breaking down this year is moving the ball in from the fullbacks.  We boot it directly to the defender or just get stripped of the ball far too often.

 

 

I do agree that we take way, way, way too flipping long to get going from the back.  I honestly can't stand it with Lees and Loovens back there because they take so bloody long to get anything moving, and more often than not Lees can't hit a man forward and so is up to Bannan to drop all the way back to pick up the ball and orchestrate the attack.

 

For me, Van Aken needs to be in the line up every game.  It's so refreshing to see him pick up the ball and then send a bullet 30 yards forward up the middle right to Hooper's feet, or to move forward and swing one 40 yards wide on the money to whomever made their way up the pitch on the right.

 

We spend a third of the time we normally would getting organized at the back with him in the line up, and he has the ability to pass accurately.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Indoor Owl

[CrosbyKitchens]

17 minutes ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

Because we're throwing everything at them.

 

Norwich is a perfect example of what happens when you play a more disciplined side and try that - you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar because you're bombing forward.

 

If it was really that simple to just play all out attack because every game is there for the taking, do you not think more teams would do it?

 

Personally, I'd love it if every opponent came at us like that - we'd be pumping teams 4 or 5 goals to 1.

 

And the notion that he somehow doesn't let them play is nonsense - we attempt all sorts of through plays, yet are unable to get to them, or we don't win the ball.  I have lost count of how many times Fletcher makes a token jump without even really trying to win the ball.

 

Where we usually do well are the short through balls: Bannan feeding Hooper or Lee, FF last year.  Sliding through the top of the box.

 

Where we've been breaking down this year is moving the ball in from the fullbacks.  We boot it directly to the defender or just get stripped of the ball far too often.

 

 

I do agree that we take way, way, way too flipping long to get going from the back.  I honestly can't stand it with Lees and Loovens back there because they take so bloody long to get anything moving, and more often than not Lees can't hit a man forward and so is up to Bannan to drop all the way back to pick up the ball and orchestrate the attack.

 

For me, Van Aken needs to be in the line up every game.  It's so refreshing to see him pick up the ball and then send a bullet 30 yards forward up the middle right to Hooper's feet, or to move forward and swing one 40 yards wide on the money to whomever made their way up the pitch on the right.

 

We spend a third of the time we normally would getting organized at the back with him in the line up, and he has the ability to pass accurately.

It's our record against the crap teams in this league that has hurt us. We didn't attack at Reading who hadn't kept a clean sheet all season, we lost at Bolton, we lost against a Norwich side who hadn't won at home for months. There's a long way between all out attack and sitting back. We haven't been picked off by good teams. we've been ridiculously toothless and easy to beat with it. It's poor management I'm afraid.

 

Agree with you on Van Aken. Has to play and learn. Also, those complaining about his defending are clearly closing their eyes when Loovens is on the pitch.

Edited December 13, 2017 by CrosbyKitchens

[Jennz]

3 hours ago, BC1867 said:

Indoor owl...yeah definitely indoor. 

 

Ffs what a delusional guy. The fact that you say our current style suits our players is flipping nuts. There could not be a more untrue statement, such is the disconnect between Carlos and transfers. This is despite the fact Carlos himself doesn't seem to be consistent on his involvement in transfers; one week claiming he is not involved, the next week claiming he looked at 200 centre backs before settling on van aken.  

 

 

He said he's not involved in the contract/money side of it....not WHO we sign.

[pgmetcalf]

10 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

What convinces you Carlos is still then man?

 

Hopefully some of  you will see the light instead of having your head in the sand!

 

Maybe you don't want the club in the Premiership and are happy to be a mid table side playing dull, negative football!

 

Come on own up, who are you!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that Mr Wedge

[Ronnie Starling]

6 hours ago, trevdi9 said:

In the  grand scheme of things finishing in the top six for the last two seasons means   nothing as we capitulated in both play off situations ,which amounts to failure ,therefore why keep throwing that in , yes it looks good on paper but that's it ,We started the new season (I.E. this one) on a par with every other team in the league ,,We have virtually done nothing to give us beliefe we are going to get anywhere near top six as yet in fact quite the opposite is happening ,and yet we are expected to want this manager To stay ,lol ,Sorry the football is Turgid the manager never seems to learn from one game to the next , he blames everyone and their mothers for his actions when we play mindnumbing football  and people  are supposed to pay exhorbitant ammounts to support and watch that ,laughable or tragic whichever way you wish to call it but it aint working

Spot on Trev. We got to the play offs but that was it. No looking back thinking how on earth didn't we get promoted with all those chances. Instead we are left with these badge of honours of two failed play offs where the players and Carvalhal never turned up.

[kingsidney]

11 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

Oh good, another pointless inflammatory post.

 

He's the only manager to do anything with Wednesday in two decades. We don't pay FIFA ball, we play a possession based game that suits or current players.

 

And my thinking is is better to play patient, thoughtful football and get promoted (and hopefully stay there) than to strive to be the highest scoring or most exciting perennial mid table team in the Championship.

 

I especially want Carlos to stay if the chosen manager is going to someone like Pulis or Megson.

 

In any case, the season isn't even quite half over, and we're ten points from the playoffs.  I'll save my bedwetting for a time when it's actually needed.

 

Team will look a much better side with FF and Boyd on the wings in attack than it is right now.  When that happens, hopefully we'll stop stalling out in attack in the final third.

 

So there's your answer.

When you say did something, do you mean getting us to mid table of division 2 whilst spending the budget of the last 10 managers combined. 

Big whoop. 

[BC1867]

5 hours ago, qantas said:

 

He said he's not involved in the contract/money side of it....not WHO we sign.

 

So the squad imbalance is still his responsibility then. So irrelevant point you make.

[Mr Farrell]

11 hours ago, Muffinman said:

Stop talking about your personal life and address the issues.

 

What are the issues Nigel ?

[Mr Farrell]

10 minutes ago, BC1867 said:

 

So the squad imbalance is still his responsibility then. So irrelevant point you make.

 

You talk like Yoda.

[Mr Farrell]

20 minutes ago, kingsidney said:

When you say did something, do you mean getting us to mid table of division 2 whilst spending the budget of the last 10 managers combined. 

Big whoop. 

 

37 million and a squad of ageing players on huge contracts with little or no resale value.

 

If their was a blueprint on how to spunk money and not progress, Carlos could write it.

[RichSheffWeds]

10 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

 

What about it?

 

He is the only manager to have us anywhere near promotion.

 

We do play possession, based football with a pretty methodical approach and short passes - which suits our team of aging ex-PL players, who are good on the ball but not particularly physical, and certainly aren't going to win any accolades based on their pace (or lack thereof).

 

I do think it's better to play this style of football rather than being a team that can create a chance on a smash and grab counter, but can't defend enough to ever win games.  I'd rather routinely win 1-0 with boring pragmatism than routinely lose 3-2 with an attacking team that's constantly caught out.

 

 

Only one flaw with that argument - we are not winning 1-0 with boring pragmatism. 

 

We are drawing and losing with boring ineffective tactics which the stubborn coach will not change.

 

If we were “routinely” winning 1-0 fans would put up with the lack of entertainment because results are what matters.

 

Carlos has the worst of all worlds now - negative boring football that leaves us 15th in league. 

 

It it isn’t rocket science - whatever Carlos is doing isn’t working. 

 

Its time to go. For everyone’s sake. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by RichSheffWeds

[Athelwulf]

11 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

Oh good, another pointless inflammatory post.

 

He's the only manager to do anything with Wednesday in two decades. We don't pay FIFA ball, we play a possession based game that suits or current players.

 

And my thinking is is better to play patient, thoughtful football and get promoted (and hopefully stay there) than to strive to be the highest scoring or most exciting perennial mid table team in the Championship.

 

I especially want Carlos to stay if the chosen manager is going to someone like Pulis or Megson.

 

In any case, the season isn't even quite half over, and we're ten points from the playoffs.  I'll save my bedwetting for a time when it's actually needed.

 

Team will look a much better side with FF and Boyd on the wings in attack than it is right now.  When that happens, hopefully we'll stop stalling out in attack in the final third.

 

So there's your answer.

 

An inflammatory post on OwlsTalk?

 

Get away.

 

Inflammations R Us.

[torryowl]

4 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

37 million and a squad of ageing players on huge contracts with little or no resale value.

 

If their was a blueprint on how to spunk money and not progress, Carlos could write it.

chansiri is the one who's spunked his money and not progressed, he's the one who brokers the deals awards the long contracts , he's the one who set up a committee to find the players carlos can sign .don't you think we should be directing our vitriol his way . 

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, torryowl said:

chansiri is the one who's spunked his money and not progressed, he's the one who brokers the deals awards the long contracts , he's the one who set up a committee to find the players carlos can sign .don't you think we should be directing our vitriol his way . 

 

If Carlos agreed to players he didn't want, then he's an even worse Manager than I thought.

 

Not sure it's possible for him to appear any more out of his depth, but you get my point.

[optimisticowl]

My problem with the premis that Carlos must go is that since the termination of the second coming of Big Ron, with a very few exceptions, our management appointments have got progressively worse. All the Dean Smith, Mick McArthy talk is complete wishful thinking, why would any strong manager want to be DC’s lapdog?

 

What we really need IMHO, is the appointment of a chief executive of the like of Karren Brady, she’s beyond our capabilities, but she might just know someone who isn’t. I’d like to see Carlos work under the eye of someone who knows what they are doing before I make my mind up. In my experience most business failures eminate from the top, a good owner appoints good management, whilst a poor owner is scared to delegate, we are going nowhere with DC running the show.

[Athelwulf]

6 minutes ago, torryowl said:

chansiri is the one who's spunked his money and not progressed, he's the one who brokers the deals awards the long contracts , he's the one who set up a committee to find the players carlos can sign .don't you think we should be directing our vitriol his way . 

 

Yes, very true.

 

Chansiri's not blameless in this mess, not by a long chalk.

 

[the monk]

12 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

Oh good, another pointless inflammatory post.

 

He's the only manager to do anything with Wednesday in two decades. We don't pay FIFA ball, we play a possession based game that suits or current players.

 

And my thinking is is better to play patient, thoughtful football and get promoted (and hopefully stay there) than to strive to be the highest scoring or most exciting perennial mid table team in the Championship.

 

I especially want Carlos to stay if the chosen manager is going to someone like Pulis or Megson.

 

In any case, the season isn't even quite half over, and we're ten points from the playoffs.  I'll save my bedwetting for a time when it's actually needed.

 

Team will look a much better side with FF and Boyd on the wings in attack than it is right now.  When that happens, hopefully we'll stop stalling out in attack in the final third.

 

So there's your answer.

Possession based game ????

 

Unless the ball goes forward then it's carelessly given away and no one seems to mind.

 

Anti football you say ? How many shots on target did we have in November ?

 

Love to know what passes for success in your mind 

 

[torryowl]

8 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

If Carlos agreed to players he didn't want, then he's an even worse Manager than I thought.

 

Not sure it's possible for him to appear any more out of his depth, but you get my point.

so who's to blame ? carlos for going along with the bloke who employs him or chansiri for giving him players he didn't really want .

[kingsidney]

20 minutes ago, torryowl said:

chansiri is the one who's spunked his money and not progressed, he's the one who brokers the deals awards the long contracts , he's the one who set up a committee to find the players carlos can sign .don't you think we should be directing our vitriol his way . 

He should have kept the commitee, our signings got worse once they left.