Forestieri Left Wing Starts

[NeonLeon]

As a centre forward he doesn't make the bench for me.

 

As a wide man he's first choice. 

[Stoop]

Carlos would rather play Bannan on the left

 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

I agree that he is. Best suited to LM, but would be interested to know from those stats how many games are away from home.  CC doesnt seem to ever start FF out wide when playing away.

[S36 OWL]

12 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

So which option is correct, Carlos?

 

 

I didnt know Carlos likes playing Draughts. 

[davey_wells]

The thing is... Carlos already knows this, he knows the stats, he's publicly said so - yet he still for whatever reasons feel it's better to play him as a second striker.

 

Weirdly, my overriding memory of him being out left is the Brum 3-0 win where he was rubbish and got replaced before we started to get a grip on the game.  He was leaving his full back exposed every time.  He also had a big paddy when he got taken off.

[Hawkowl]

12 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

So which option is correct, Carlos?

 

New tactic is to play Westwood and Wildsmith together in goal.

No one will ever notice.

"Cunning plan Carlos well done".

[Holmowl]

46 minutes ago, A12owl said:

Where has FF ever said he has to play up front?

 

No idea.

 

Myth?

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I agree that he is. Best suited to LM, but would be interested to know from those stats how many games are away from home.  CC doesnt seem to ever start FF out wide when playing away.

 

Three.

 

Fulham, Preston last year and this season Brentford.

[ramone]

1 hour ago, A12owl said:

Where has FF ever said he has to play up front?

He hasn't 

[Sgt Wednesday]

I think its pretty obvious that FF prefers to play up top, there is no other reason why CC didn't play him out there. I'd say it played a part in FFs start to last season and his refusal to travel (along with contract negotiations). 

 

Now my thoughts are he needs to play left because we have better options up top and we don't have a better option on the left of midfield.

 

CC needs to tell FF that we aren't U9s anymore and that he needs to play where he is more effective for the team, goals and assists etc.

 

Personally I would rather cash in on FF than play him up top, he's nothing special when up top, he can be unplayable out wide, It's a no brainer and will cost CC his job if not sorted.

 

 

 

 

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

34 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

I think its pretty obvious that FF prefers to play up top, there is no other reason why CC didn't play him out there. I'd say it played a part in FFs start to last season and his refusal to travel (along with contract negotiations). 

 

Now my thoughts are he needs to play left because we have better options up top and we don't have a better option on the left of midfield.

 

CC needs to tell FF that we aren't U9s anymore and that he needs to play where he is more effective for the team, goals and assists etc.

 

Personally I would rather cash in on FF than play him up top, he's nothing special when up top, he can be unplayable out wide, It's a no brainer and will cost CC his job if not sorted.

 

 

 

 

 

The old OT body language/ mind reading experts are at it again  

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

I think its pretty obvious that FF prefers to play up top, there is no other reason why CC didn't play him out there. I'd say it played a part in FFs start to last season and his refusal to travel (along with contract negotiations). 

 

Now my thoughts are he needs to play left because we have better options up top and we don't have a better option on the left of midfield.

 

CC needs to tell FF that we aren't U9s anymore and that he needs to play where he is more effective for the team, goals and assists etc.

 

Personally I would rather cash in on FF than play him up top, he's nothing special when up top, he can be unplayable out wide, It's a no brainer and will cost CC his job if not sorted.

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't say it's obvious, but I've never understood this theory that he prefers playing striker.

 

He plays better left, he is far more involved, and he scores more goals. Why would he not like it? Surely he prefers running at a full-back than receiving the ball back to goal with a 6'3 CB stuck up his backside.

 

I don't want to cash in. I think he would go to Villa, Derby, Wolves etc, play LW for a season, get them promoted and make us look stupid as he doubles his value.

 

I do agree though that if Carlos sees him as a striker we are much better off without him.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Holmowl

[York_Owl]

11 hours ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I agree that he is. Best suited to LM, but would be interested to know from those stats how many games are away from home.  CC doesnt seem to ever start FF out wide when playing away.

The problem with stats is they don't take these things into account. The Cardiff game Bannan played wide right which doesn't support the 3 CMs in a 4 but is now being used to support FF playing wide left.

 

I don't doubt FF is quality on the left I've seen it with my own eyes; he's a quality player who can play a number of positions. But my main contention with the op is that in trying to prove the point, via stats alone, that he should be playing on the left he is rubbishing him playing up front.

 

He can be just as good up front in he number ten role. arguably our best performance of the season, beating Newcastle away, was when he played up front. 

 

I think there are are a couple of issues when he plays up front. One is that people judge him as a centre forward as an out and out goal scorer. He is not that he's a number ten, the link man who plays off the centre forward; a Peter Beardsley not a Lineker or Hirst.

 

Secondly he's our most creative player so when he plays up front we lose his creativity out wide. When FF was up front last season Bannan was generally wide left and Reach this. So it's not that FF is no good up front it's just that we don't have a like for like replacement on the left when he does play there but the stats don't take this into account. He's effectively being beaten with his own stick. Put him in a more creative side then judge him at ten. Imagine him in the 91 team, replacing Williams, he'd be absolute quality.

 

Personally I'd like to see him playing on the left in a 4-3-3 but even then we have areas in the make up of the team that need addressing.

Edited June 2, 2017 by York_Owl

[Holmowl]

55 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

The problem with stats is they don't take these things into account. The Cardiff game Bannan played wide right which doesn't support the 3 CMs in a 4 but is now being used to support FF playing wide left.

 

I don't doubt FF is quality on the left I've seen it with my own eyes; he's a quality player who can play a number of positions. But my main contention with the op is that in trying to prove the point, via stats alone, that he should be playing on the left he is rubbishing him playing up front.

 

He can be just as good up front in he number ten role. arguably our best performance of the season, beating Newcastle away, was when he played up front. 

 

I think there are are a couple of issues when he plays up front. One is that people judge him as a centre forward as an out and out goal scorer. He is not that he's a number ten, the link man who plays off the centre forward; a Peter Beardsley not a Lineker or Hirst.

 

Secondly he's our most creative player so when he plays up front we lose his creativity out wide. When FF was up front last season Bannan was generally wide left and Reach this. So it's not that FF is no good up front it's just that we don't have a like for like replacement on the left when he does play there but the stats don't take this into account. He's effectively being beaten with his own stick. Put him in a more creative side then judge him at ten. Imagine him in the 91 team, replacing Williams, he'd be absolute quality.

 

Personally I'd like to see him playing on the left in a 4-3-3 but even then we have areas in the make up of the team that need addressing.

 

He is not being beaten with any stick. 

 

Its about how the team performs, not an individual, and the team is so much more successful when he plays wide. I agree with your point that we have no like for like replacement for him on the wing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[0114]

Incredible stat. Always felt we are a better side with him playing wider and playing between the lines. Up front he gets isolated likes to play in and around the box rather than waiting for service. 

 

[Rentaghost]

While ever Carlos continues to be a bell end and try and play 3 central midfielders (one on the wing), we will continue to suffer this serious misallocation of valuable resources. 

[oldishowl]

Stats , make them say owt really.

 

We have never won an away game with FF starting on the left

 

Arguably our  best two away performances this season were Newcastle and Wolves when FF played as a striker 

 

We have never beaten a side in the top 6 with FF playing wide left

 

We have had some decent results at home against mid table teams. However our record at home against mid table teams is probably quite good anyway

 

The Brentford 4-0 they had 10 men for 85 mins

 

The Preston away game last season their right back missed two sitters when FF didn't track him. FF got so frustrated, ended up getting sent off. No more left side for FF as far as Carlos was concerned.

 

The Cardiff 3-0 Joao played wide left

 

Yep. He can do ok wide left.

But it will only be a consistent positive if we change to 433 

 

[Holmowl]

18 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Stats , make them say owt really.

 

We have never won an away game with FF starting on the left

 

Arguably our  best two away performances this season were Newcastle and Wolves when FF played as a striker 

 

We have never beaten a side in the top 6 with FF playing wide left

 

We have had some decent results at home against mid table teams. However our record at home against mid table teams is probably quite good anyway

 

The Brentford 4-0 they had 10 men for 85 mins

 

The Preston away game last season their right back missed two sitters when FF didn't track him. FF got so frustrated, ended up getting sent off. No more left side for FF as far as Carlos was concerned.

 

The Cardiff 3-0 Joao played wide left

 

Yep. He can do ok wide left.

But it will only be a consistent positive if we change to 433 

 

 

Really daft to call them stats. They are football matches. 15 of them. 

 

BTW the aways were played 3, won, lost, drawn. Win at Fulham last season.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

2 hours ago, oldishowl said:

Stats , make them say owt really.

 

We have never won an away game with FF starting on the left

 

Arguably our  best two away performances this season were Newcastle and Wolves when FF played as a striker 

 

We have never beaten a side in the top 6 with FF playing wide left

 

We have had some decent results at home against mid table teams. However our record at home against mid table teams is probably quite good anyway

 

The Brentford 4-0 they had 10 men for 85 mins

 

The Preston away game last season their right back missed two sitters when FF didn't track him. FF got so frustrated, ended up getting sent off. No more left side for FF as far as Carlos was concerned.

 

The Cardiff 3-0 Joao played wide left

 

Yep. He can do ok wide left.

But it will only be a consistent positive if we change to 433 

 

 

Couple of other things.

 

Wigan home game he didn't play as a left winger. Definitely more of a free role in that game.

 

Birmingham home was 1-0 until he went off. We improved and ended up winning 3-0.

Blackburn home 2-1 up at halftime. FF on left for 2nd and they played us off the park.

 

The stats in the op don't mention the other games he played wide left.

 

Leeds at home. Best team in first half with FF up top, switched to left in 2nd with Hooper/Fletcher up top, went to pieces and lost 0-2.

 

Burton away. Played the 2nd half on the left. Worst result of the season.

 

Also played wide left in defeats against Brighton, Ipswich, Derby and Birmingham. 

 

So when you look at what's left, most wins were pretty standard and the whole "we're much better when he plays on the left" is based on 3/4 games!

 

Wolves 4-1

Brum 3-0 

Cardiff 3-0 (debatable whether he was even on the left that day. He was poor anyway)

Norwich 5-1 (You could argue their manager had lost the dressing room by then).

 

A few great results, but overall a bit of a mixed bag.

 

Certainly not enough to support this ridiculous claim that he can't play up top.

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Couple of other things.

 

Wigan home game he didn't play as a left winger. Definitely more of a free role in that game.

 

Birmingham home was 1-0 until he went off. We improved and ended up winning 3-0.

Blackburn home 2-1 up at halftime. FF on left for 2nd and they played us off the park.

 

The stats in the op don't mention the other games he played wide left.

 

Leeds at home. Best team in first half with FF up top, switched to left in 2nd with Hooper/Fletcher up top, went to pieces and lost 0-2.

 

Burton away. Played the 2nd half on the left. Worst result of the season.

 

Also played wide left in defeats against Brighton, Ipswich, Derby and Birmingham. 

 

So when you look at what's left, most wins were pretty standard and the whole "we're much better when he plays on the left" is based on 3/4 games!

 

Wolves 4-1

Brum 3-0 

Cardiff 3-0 (debatable whether he was even on the left that day. He was poor anyway)

Norwich 5-1 (You could argue their manager had lost the dressing room by then).

 

A few great results, but overall a bit of a mixed bag.

 

Certainly not enough to support this ridiculous claim that he can't play up top.

 

Honestly.

 

If we won 46/46 playing with FF wide you would look for reason to find fault with it.

 

You can try to pull holes here and there in individual matches, but I love that exciting, goal-scoring approach we have with FF left and two strikers.

 

Just to remind you

 

Pl 15. W11. D3. L1. GF35 !!!!!!!!! GA11. 

 

And a sheer joy to watch.