TomtheOwl95 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, shandypants said: Who the fvvcck are you to give it that one? I've paid my due as much as the next fan. Don't accuse me of being an armchair fan. I've been watching Wednesday all my life and had a season ticket every year for almost 30 years! If the "95" in your username relates to your year of birth then I have been watching everything at Hillsborough from the sublime to dross before you were born. I barely watch football on TV - it doesn't interest me. I haven't personally insulted anyone on here but you might be the first. I never accused you of being an armchair fan, I said supporting the team is about the good and the bad. It's irrelevant how long you've been going, supporting the team is about the here and now regardless of the style of play. Oh and does it really need to go personal? Its a football forum where we have disagreed, I haven't said anything about you as a person have I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: I never accused you of being an armchair fan, I said supporting the team is about the good and the bad. It's irrelevant how long you've been going, supporting the team is about the here and now regardless of the style of play. Oh and does it really need to go personal? Its a football forum where we have disagreed, I haven't said anything about you as a person have I? It's not what you state; it's what you imply. I'm not one of these "I've paid so I'll say what I like" merchants at the match. I'm a vocal singer and supporter but the fact is that the crowd are subdued this season and the reason very much appears to be the negative football we play. To state we should sing no matter what is naive IMO. Can you honestly say that you sing all through the match because there have been periods in matches this season where absolutely no-one has sung for minutes at a time - by default, you will have contributed to this lack of atmosphere. I support my team as much as the next man and I sing more than the majority of fans - yes, I am one of those silly fvcckkers that sings when everyone around him is silent. However, it is hard to get an atmosphere when the team aren't responding. Carlos can't have it both ways; he either gives the crowd something to sing about or he lives with the consequence of playing negative football. Surely you cant argue against that? Edited February 24, 2017 by shandypants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Just now, shandypants said: It's not what you state; it's what you imply. I'm not one of these "I've paid so I'll say what I like" merchants at the match. I'm a vocal singer and supporter but the fact is that the crowd are subdued this season and the reason very much appears to be the negative football we play. To state we should sing no matter what is naive IMO. Can you honestly say that you sing all through the match because there have been periods in matches this season where absolutely no-one has sung for minutes at a time - by default, you will have contributed to this lack of atmosphere. I support my team as much as the next man and I sing more than the majority of fans - yes, I am one of those silly fvcckkers that sings when everyone around him is silent. However, it is hard to get an atmosphere when the team aren't responding. Carlos can't have it both ways; he either gives the crowd something to sing about or he lives with the consequence of playing negative football. Surely yoy cant argue against that? I've never criticized you as a fan, I don't know you and even if I did I wouldn't because everyone is different. I think it's quite obvious we aren't going to agree which is fine that's football/life. It annoys me however when people claim to be amazing fans but criticise the team whenever we don't spank someone. We're having the best season we've had for 20 years regardless of the style of play which hasn't been as bad as some have made out. Don't get me wrong the first half against Brentford was awful and the lack of atmosphere was understandable to an extent and I suppose the point I want to get across is that instead of "oh that was sh*t lets moan" it should be "Well come on lads lets pull our fingers out", we have to remember players are human beings and they sometimes need to be encouraged when not playing well instead of the negativity of booing or groaning or even walking out. I stand by the point that SOME and I do genuinely mean SOME of the fans have no clue what they are watching because I hear it while I'm in the ground and while I walk along Penistone Road afterwards. I apologise if that point came across in the wrong way but I can only say what I see/hear. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ka58 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Let's face it - bar the odd big game the atmosphere at hillsboro has been mostly poor for prob last 25 years. nothing new is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Part of the problem might be the ground being too big for us at the moment, atmosphere is never going to be good when it's half full. Also we've had mostly garbage football for about 20 years, and now after this long because we're finally half decent again, everybody is so completely, painfully desperate for success that we're too tense to actually relax and enjoy the game anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
since59owe Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 23:36, shandypants said: ...and it was clearly demonstrated tonight. Our typical style and tactics are boring to watch - they do get us the points more often than not but they are boring. The crowd came alive tonight when we were attacking - why? Because the style and tactics were exciting to watch. We all know that's the case. It's the great big fat elephant in the room. I am am so frustrated. It's driving me crazy. 3 points on Sat' will cure, thee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, ka58 said: Let's face it - bar the odd big game the atmosphere at hillsboro has been mostly poor for prob last 25 years. nothing new is happening. 9 minutes ago, Lee A said: Part of the problem might be the ground being too big for us at the moment, atmosphere is never going to be good when it's half full. Also we've had mostly garbage football for about 20 years, and now after this long because we're finally half decent again, everybody is so completely, painfully desperate for success that we're too tense to actually relax and enjoy the game anyway. Unfortunately true. Big cavernous ground and not fully enclosed. You can feel a bit detached. Tighter more enclosed grounds with fewer empty seats (even if smaller crowds) are more conducive to creating a good atmosphere. Also agree that the style of football being served up does little to stir up passion in the crowd unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopswfc76 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 12 hours ago, TomtheOwl95 said: I'll give you another fact, supporting the team means more than just cheering when its all going well. If you are only bothered about the style of play then stay at home and watch the Champions League. I don't think its the going well in fairness but the style of play and perceived lack of urgency on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopswfc76 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Dagmeister said: Unfortunately true. Big cavernous ground and not fully enclosed. You can feel a bit detached. Tighter more enclosed grounds with fewer empty seats (even if smaller crowds) are more conducive to creating a good atmosphere. Also agree that the style of football being served up does little to stir up passion in the crowd unfortunately. Also no singing section so fans are spread out all over the place unlike in the early 80's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 To my mind we are a far better team when we go for it and i will always advocate attack is the best formof defence , this will get the crowd going as it always does, the sitting back and passing side ways lark is so boring which breeds negativity and gives the impetus to the oposing team to attack us whenever they have the ball which is a lot ofthe time, our defensive play is mostly erratic and mistakes are made which we inevitably get punished from ,yet when the oposite happensand we press them back and have a go we are at our best ,now saying that Carlos will do as he sees fit , but the crowd will hardly respond if playing keepball is all we offer this stifles the game and often puts us on the backfoot to many times, so if carlos wants the backing of the fans from the first minute then he and the team have to try and do their part in the deal ,we have the players to deliver so let them deliver instead of playing safety first which i think is whats happening ,get the oposition on the backfoot and take it from there where in so doing it will lift the crowd and the support will manifest into what it should be ,therefore if i am reading Shandy's op right then give the supporters something to shout about and you will get the support in return , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Horse Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I thought the crowd did as much as they could in spite of that abomination of a first half. It took what? Fifteen twenty minutes to get in their half why any intent? Despite that, the fans still sung and cheered and encouraged when passages of play didn't work out. It wasn't rocking but despite playing like shiiite, it was still supportive. Second half when we went for it, guess what - the noise levels went up. That's all any home crowd wants to see - their team taking the game to the opposition. Like a home side bleeding should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Think a lot of football fans go now and think its 30 odd quid or what ever to get in, I have read some of you lot are on £40k per week now its your job to entertain me. I sadly do feel little this way. Less of an attitude of supporters and fans thinking we are all in this together like there seemed to be when I first started going. Think the money players get paid has made a chasm between those who play and those who watch and this is reflected in the atmosphere at most football grounds where by fans are less likely to get behind the team when things are not going there teams way. Also the demographics of people who attend games has changed. Majority of crowds used to be made up of young working class blokes now its much more a spread of ages, sexes and more middle class people so get less of an atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It's reyt ard to sing when ya bored shitllesss, but then again the ground is too big....kinelll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 8 hours ago, trevdi9 said: To my mind we are a far better team when we go for it and i will always advocate attack is the best formof defence , this will get the crowd going as it always does, the sitting back and passing side ways lark is so boring which breeds negativity and gives the impetus to the oposing team to attack us whenever they have the ball which is a lot ofthe time, our defensive play is mostly erratic and mistakes are made which we inevitably get punished from ,yet when the oposite happensand we press them back and have a go we are at our best ,now saying that Carlos will do as he sees fit , but the crowd will hardly respond if playing keepball is all we offer this stifles the game and often puts us on the backfoot to many times, so if carlos wants the backing of the fans from the first minute then he and the team have to try and do their part in the deal ,we have the players to deliver so let them deliver instead of playing safety first which i think is whats happening ,get the oposition on the backfoot and take it from there where in so doing it will lift the crowd and the support will manifest into what it should be ,therefore if i am reading Shandy's op right then give the supporters something to shout about and you will get the support in return Exactly Trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 5 hours ago, matthefish2002 said: Also the demographics of people who attend games has changed. Majority of crowds used to be made up of young working class blokes now its much more a spread of ages, sexes and more middle class people so get less of an atmosphere. I'm not middle class. Ask the guys at the tennis club; they'll vouch for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The atmosphere died at Hillsborough the day they put seats on the kop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robswfc Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) On 22/02/2017 at 08:36, shandypants said: ...and it was clearly demonstrated tonight. Our typical style and tactics are boring to watch - they do get us the points more often than not but they are boring. The crowd came alive tonight when we were attacking - why? Because the style and tactics were exciting to watch. We all know that's the case. It's the great big fat elephant in the room. I am am so frustrated. It's driving me crazy. You talk about the game like there's only one team playing in a match, able to play exactly how they like... It just isn't that simple, last year teams came to Hillsborough hoping they could attack us and nick 3 points, as we attempt do to all teams away from home. This year they are more cautious and are concentrating on stopping us from playing. Against that you can stick 3 strikers on, play Forestieri LM, play attacking wingers, but the reality is that you won't be able to smash other teams to pieces regularly. You will probably end up winning ugly quite often and occasionally getting sucker punched by set piece headers or bad refs.. The trick, as Carlos does very well in my opinion, is to analyse closely the weaknesses of a particular side and target those. Edited February 25, 2017 by robswfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, robswfc said: You talk about the game like there's only one team playing in a match, able to play exactly how they like... It just isn't that simple, last year teams came to Hillsborough hoping they could attack us and nick 3 points, as we attempt do to all teams away from home. This year they are more cautious and are concentrating on stopping us from playing. Against that you can stick 3 strikers on, play Forestieri LM, play attacking wingers, but the reality is that you won't be able to smash other teams to pieces regularly. You will probably end up winning ugly quite often and occasionally getting sucker punched by set piece headers or bad refs.. The trick, as Carlos does very well in my opinion, is to analyse closely the weaknesses of a particular side and target those. I see the total opposite rob. Teams defended at Hillsborough last year as we pressed and pressed. They are attacking us this year because we sit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsdreamer Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 We always slow and with no tempo for the 1st 45 mins not through chance but by design. Its CC's idea of grind the opposition down, silence the crowd etc etc. Iv nothing against CC but i do sometimes doubt that his tactics can take us to the next level . We have the quality now and fire power to go with it. If we employ the wrong tactics today we could get battered.Go for it Wednesday...UTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHERSTATE Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 23 hours ago, Lee A said: Part of the problem might be the ground being too big for us at the moment, atmosphere is never going to be good when it's half full. Also we've had mostly garbage football for about 20 years, and now after this long because we're finally half decent again, everybody is so completely, painfully desperate for success that we're too tense to actually relax and enjoy the game anyway. Nail on head.. Painfully desperate for success?. Wtf..it's a hobby and an afternoon out..not a life choice..People need to chill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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