44-chuffing-2! Carlos talks tactics

[joelswfc]

Decent interview from the Star and some pretty straight answers from Carlos which is good to see.

 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-carlos-carvalhal-rules-out-owls-formation-change-1-8647732

[JanikowskiSWFC]

Could manage England being that committed to that formation

[owlandished]

“Against Alfreton, we operated a 4-4-2 with different movements. We played more offensive. Compared to the last two seasons, we had four or five players often near the area. We try to play more offensive and try to score more goals"

 

Carlos, mate. WE WERE PLAYING NON-LEAGUE ALFRETON

[Guest wilyfox]

He's quite right. Managers that try to over-complicate systems at this level risk coming unstuck because the players aren't up to it. Leicester, Burnley, Bournemouth.. all went up using 442. The system does not hinder - when played well. Why choose a different method our players can't handle?

[Morepork]

I'm pleased with those comments, 4-4-2 hasn't been our issue, selection, mentality and "dynamic" as CC calls were the difference between his first season and second. It does sound like we're going to be more positive in general, striking a balance between season one and two would suit me. I'm sure the gaffa has it all in hand. 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

The type of 442 we play means every game is a real grind. We'll always be tough to beat, but we'll also always struggle to play expansive attacking football.

 

Not really pleasing on the eye but it's difficult to argue with too much after finishing 6th and 4th. 

 

 

 

 

[Blue and white]

I have no problem with any formation as long as players are played to there strengths.

442 doesn't work when you try and shoehorn 3 cm's into a starting 11.

The 2 wide men need to be 2 from Boyd, Forestieri, Reach and Wallace.

In the middle it's 2 from Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Hutchinson and Jones. 

This is assuming we start the season without any more additions to the midfield.

As long as this happens then 442 works and I have no problems with it.

Ultimately it's Carlos job and his choice, get it wrong and he won't be around to see it through.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

Personally I'd like to see a switch to a 433 and more importantly, steal a bit from Pep's playbook on how he uses his fullbacks. 

 

A big part of Pep's attack is his use of quick, direct wide attackers. Getting them in 1 on 1 situations. He uses his fullbacks differently to most teams in order to do this. They actually tuck infield when City's defenders have the ball. They create an angle infield and force the opposition's wide attackers to follow, which in turn opens up a pass directly to their wide attackers (Sterling, Sane), often in a 1on1 situation with a fullback. 

 

This also allows their attacking central midfielders (Silva, De Bruyne) to push higher up the pitch (Bannan, Lee in our case) and play between the lines. The defensive midfielder (Hutch/Jones) can play the deep role. He can help the CBs to make a 3 if needed and is never really outnumbered in midfield as a full back is often also occupying that space. 

 

It's brilliant imo. As long as your fullbacks are comfortable on the ball (Reach and Palmer maybe fit the bill?) and your wide attackers are direct, athletic and tricky (FF, Boyd). It sort of negates the need for a beast in midfield due to the numbers you have in there (which suits us as we don't have one), and gives plenty of opportunities to get your most productive attacking players on the ball in good areas.

 

                Westwood 

Palmer. Lees Loovens Reach 

                Hutch.          

           Lee.    Bannan

Boyd.                    Forestieri    

              Rhodes

            or Hooper

 

Not going to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing us try.

 

 

[spike1867]

6 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

Personally I'd like to see a switch to a 433 and more importantly, steal a bit from Pep's playbook on how he uses his fullbacks. 

 

A big part of Pep's attack is his use of quick, direct wide attackers. Getting them in 1 on 1 situations. He uses his fullbacks differently to most teams in order to do this. They actually tuck infield when City's defenders have the ball. They create an angle infield and force the opposition's wide attackers to follow, which in turn opens up a pass directly to their wide attackers (Sterling, Sane), often in a 1on1 situation with a fullback. 

 

This also allows their attacking central midfielders (Silva, De Bruyne) to push higher up the pitch (Bannan, Lee in our case) and play between the lines. The defensive midfielder (Hutch/Jones) can play the deep role. He can help the CBs to make a 3 if needed and is never really outnumbered in midfield as a full back is often also occupying that space. 

 

It's brilliant imo. As long as your fullbacks are comfortable on the ball (Reach and Palmer maybe fit the bill?) and your wide attackers are direct, athletic and tricky (FF, Boyd). It sort of negates the need for a beast in midfield due to the numbers you have in there (which suits us as we don't have one), and gives plenty of opportunities to get your most productive attacking players on the ball in good areas.

 

                Westwood 

Palmer. Lees Loovens Reach 

                Hutch.          

           Lee.    Bannan

Boyd.                    Forestieri    

              Rhodes

            or Hooper

 

Not going to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing us try.

 

 

Spot on mate. Guardiola is a Bielsa man. His full backs do tuck in and create a three with a central midfielder.  Pochettino who is also a Bielsa disciple plays it differently. I've often thought we'd be better asking our full backs to do this rather than our 'wingers'.

[Blue and white]

Last season we saw 2 versions of the 442 formation.

The first was the turgid, unbalanced, poor footballing team that won games against lesser teams with God awful football, players played out of position and shoehorning was the common practice.

The second was a balanced team, beat some of the best teams in the league, played good football, took us to 4th in the league and top of the form table for the second half of the season.

When we play it right we play it very well.

[Holmowl]

5 hours ago, Morepork said:

I'm pleased with those comments, 4-4-2 hasn't been our issue, selection, mentality and "dynamic" as CC calls were the difference between his first season and second. It does sound like we're going to be more positive in general, striking a balance between season one and two would suit me. I'm sure the gaffa has it all in hand. 

 

Its one thing saying we will be more positive. Its another thing doing it. Deep down, he is ultra-cautious. 

 

I have a hope and theory that we will get off to a real flier in August. We can and arguably should beat Preston and Burton away, and our two homes. Take a point at Fulham and we should be top going into September.

 

I hope that momentum would drive confidence in Carlos to take teams on with vigour and positive footie.  If he keeps us balanced this season that should be enough with the squad we have.

 

[Holmowl]

5 hours ago, wilyfox said:

He's quite right. Managers that try to over-complicate systems at this level risk coming unstuck because the players aren't up to it. Leicester, Burnley, Bournemouth.. all went up using 442. The system does not hinder - when played well. Why choose a different method our players can't handle?

 

I agree completely.

 

If we "try" a new system, which of the umpteen suggested on here should we go for? 433, 451, 532 etc etc etc.

 

What are the odds of any new system bedding in quickly? We know our manager tinkers, so its entirely possible that we spend the first 8-10 games trying to get a settled team.

[Morepork]

18 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Its one thing saying we will be more positive. Its another thing doing it. Deep down, he is ultra-cautious. 

 

Well we'll know soon enough. I've just been trying to find one of those early interviews he did where he'd talk about playing attractive football and out scoring the opposition, I'm sure I didn't imagine that. 

 

I keep telling myself we made a conscious decision to play cautiously last year, many managers slide slowly and sometimes unknowingly in to that routine. CC has it in his locker to change things up, he's shown us that between season one and two, no reason he can't go half a step back.

 

[pgmetcalf]

Best position there is to be honest. Find a formation that works and stick to it - let other teams worry about us. The current fashion is 3 at the back. For years Wednesday have been an almost fashionable team by suddenly adapting to the way other teams have been playing for a few years, just when other teams have learned how to combat the style and moved on.

[Beholder]

Glad to hear we are going to get more players into the box.

 

We have been too defensive at times and that hasn't helped the likes of Rhodes to get goals. 

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

Personally I'd like to see a switch to a 433 and more importantly, steal a bit from Pep's playbook on how he uses his fullbacks. 

 

A big part of Pep's attack is his use of quick, direct wide attackers. Getting them in 1 on 1 situations. He uses his fullbacks differently to most teams in order to do this. They actually tuck infield when City's defenders have the ball. They create an angle infield and force the opposition's wide attackers to follow, which in turn opens up a pass directly to their wide attackers (Sterling, Sane), often in a 1on1 situation with a fullback. 

 

This also allows their attacking central midfielders (Silva, De Bruyne) to push higher up the pitch (Bannan, Lee in our case) and play between the lines. The defensive midfielder (Hutch/Jones) can play the deep role. He can help the CBs to make a 3 if needed and is never really outnumbered in midfield as a full back is often also occupying that space. 

 

It's brilliant imo. As long as your fullbacks are comfortable on the ball (Reach and Palmer maybe fit the bill?) and your wide attackers are direct, athletic and tricky (FF, Boyd). It sort of negates the need for a beast in midfield due to the numbers you have in there (which suits us as we don't have one), and gives plenty of opportunities to get your most productive attacking players on the ball in good areas.

 

                Westwood 

Palmer. Lees Loovens Reach 

                Hutch.          

           Lee.    Bannan

Boyd.                    Forestieri    

              Rhodes

            or Hooper

 

Not going to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing us try.

 

 

 

What you have done there is pick the same set-up that did so poorly at the end of the 15/16 season, and the start of the 16/17 season though.

 

However you write it down on paper, it's still one striker, FF dropping deep, and Bannan on the left of a very narrow midfield, Hutch stays deep.

 

The last two seasons show we don't score goals set up like that. You refuse to accept the evidence of two full seasons which clearly show we score more, win more and play better with two strikers, two CMs and two wingers.

[gurujuan]

43 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

Glad to hear we are going to get more players into the box.

 

We have been too defensive at times and that hasn't helped the likes of Rhodes to get goals. 

 

We do need to, but at the first sign that it leaves us more vulnerable, we'll be back to playing it cagey Do we have the players to play a more expansive game, I'm not sure we do. There is no long striding midfield dynamo, no pace, either on the flanks, or up front. Forestieri is still our only really creative player, unless we can find a role for Abdi, difficult in a 4-4-2 system.

Token words I'm afraid. It will be more of the same, but perhaps we'll push the full backs further forward (a good thing)

[Southie_Owl]

Brighton and Burnley have shown it's fine having a hard working 442, when you have an outlet like Gray or Knockaert. It's all well and good saying we'll put more players in the box when attacking but we couldn't get the ball off Huddersfield and had to sit deep to prevent their energy and pace getting in behind (which they did in the end). What we didn't have is an outlet with pace to give the ball to whenever we got it, to take the ball up field or make the Huddersfield defence sit deeper.

A lot of times during Burnley's promotion seasons they weren't the best team but Andre Gray's pace in behind won them a lot of points 

I hope we don't regret not signing a winger or striker with pace this summer and that it will be more of the same at Preston 

[gurujuan]

40 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

Brighton and Burnley have shown it's fine having a hard working 442, when you have an outlet like Gray or Knockaert. It's all well and good saying we'll put more players in the box when attacking but we couldn't get the ball off Huddersfield and had to sit deep to prevent their energy and pace getting in behind (which they did in the end). What we didn't have is an outlet with pace to give the ball to whenever we got it, to take the ball up field or make the Huddersfield defence sit deeper.

A lot of times during Burnley's promotion seasons they weren't the best team but Andre Gray's pace in behind won them a lot of points 

I hope we don't regret not signing a winger or striker with pace this summer and that it will be more of the same at Preston 

 

This, and it's just harmless bluster from old Carlos. We don't have the players play anything other than the containing game

[Holmowl]

7 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

Brighton and Burnley have shown it's fine having a hard working 442, when you have an outlet like Gray or Knockaert. It's all well and good saying we'll put more players in the box when attacking but we couldn't get the ball off Huddersfield and had to sit deep to prevent their energy and pace getting in behind (which they did in the end). What we didn't have is an outlet with pace to give the ball to whenever we got it, to take the ball up field or make the Huddersfield defence sit deeper.

A lot of times during Burnley's promotion seasons they weren't the best team but Andre Gray's pace in behind won them a lot of points 

I hope we don't regret not signing a winger or striker with pace this summer and that it will be more of the same at Preston 

 

Dont you think Nando could be our energetic and dangerous outball, if played wide like Knockaert was?