Sack Moore Now!

[edwinowl]

8 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

If you want to make a direct comparison, try comparing their respective win rates since Alex Neil became Sunderland Manager.

 

Neil - 53% win ratio

Moore - 63% win ratio

 

As to the play-offs, Sunderland indisputably won over two legs. But tactically? That's a matter of opinion. They won the first leg courtesy of a defensive error on our part rather than any tactical superiority. And in the return leg, they opted to dig in, sit on their lead and frustrate us. Hardly a tactical masterclass. And given that we eventually drew level on aggregate and were arguably in the ascendency until their goal, questionable whether it was even the right approach on Alex Neil's part. So no, I don't see a tactical mismatch.

 

 

Correct. There was nothing in the games really. Could have gone either way there was no superior tactician here down to rub of the green and a mistake by Hutch. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

5 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

If you want to make a direct comparison, try comparing their respective win rates since Alex Neil became Sunderland Manager.

 

Neil - 53% win ratio

Moore - 63% win ratio

 

As to the play-offs, Sunderland indisputably won over two legs. But tactically? That's a matter of opinion. They won the first leg courtesy of a defensive error on our part rather than any tactical superiority. And in the return leg, they opted to dig in, sit on their lead and frustrate us. Hardly a tactical masterclass. And given that we eventually drew level on aggregate and were arguably in the ascendency until their goal, questionable whether it was even the right approach on Alex Neil's part. So no, I don't see a tactical mismatch.

 

Yep.

 

I don't get all this 'tactically out-thought' stuff going around on here today.

 

Sunderland were drifting towards a 0-0 halftime scoreline in their home leg of the playoffs until Hutchinson's brain-fart. Had he done what 99% of centre backs would in that situation and cleared it into row Z, then we'd have had the perfect away performance up to that point, and a very solid base-camp on which to build.

 

As it was, that goal turned the tide in a massive way - rather than being subdued and anxious, Sunderland's fans went ballistic; their team came out smelling blood; and we had a real job on our hands to dig in and weather the storm. But we did just that. And then we ended the game on top, although without creating that gilt-edged chance which we needed.

 

And so to the second leg: Sunderland didn't play us off the park, create loads of chances, or even look remotely threatening - they frustrated us, knocked us out of our stride, and generally kept things tight, without attacking too much themselves. Once that plan fell apart and we got the equaliser, they had a storm of their own to weather, which they did - and in the same way that we got a bit lucky at times in the first leg, they got a bit lucky in the second: that deflection off their defender which spun wide of the post or the penalty which could have been etc...

 

But again, a really poor piece of defending from us let them in just as we were turning the screw and pushing for a winner.

 

I didn't see a tactical masterclass in those games; I saw two evenly-matched teams cancelling each other out for long stretches, with only brief periods where one or the other really got on top and looked to be dominating.

 

Unfortunately for us, we made two dreadful defensive errors which handed them a win.

 

But on another day, we could well have won last night.

 

This 'tactical masterclass' from Neil left quite a lot to chance, didn't it?

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Yep.

 

I don't get all this 'tactically out-thought' stuff going around on here today.

 

Sunderland were drifting towards a 0-0 halftime scoreline in their home leg of the playoffs until Hutchinson's brain-fart. Had he done what 99% of centre backs would in that situation and cleared it into row Z, then we'd have had the perfect away performance up to that point, and a very solid base-camp on which to build.

 

As it was, that goal turned the tide in a massive way - rather than being subdued and anxious, Sunderland's fans went ballistic; their team came out smelling blood; and we had a real job on our hands to dig in and weather the storm. But we did just that. And then we ended the game on top, although without creating that gilt-edged chance which we needed.

 

And so to the second leg: Sunderland didn't play us off the park, create loads of chances, or even look remotely threatening - they frustrated us, knocked us out of our stride, and generally kept things tight, without attacking too much themselves. Once that plan fell apart and we got the equaliser, they had a storm of their own to weather, which they did - and in the same way that we got a bit lucky at times in the first leg, they got a bit lucky in the second: that deflection off their defender which spun wide of the post or the penalty which could have been etc...

 

But again, a really poor piece of defending from us let them in just as we were turning the screw and pushing for a winner.

 

I didn't see a tactical masterclass in those games; I saw two evenly-matched teams cancelling each other out for long stretches, with only brief periods where one or the other really got on top and looked to be dominating.

 

Unfortunately for us, we made two dreadful defensive errors which handed them a win.

 

But on another day, we could well have won last night.

 

This 'tactical masterclass' from Neil left quite a lot to chance, didn't it?

 

If anything, I think it is quite revelatory for the psychology of those pushing such a narrative.

 

 

[daveyboy66]

2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

If anything, I think it is quite revelatory for the psychology of those pushing such a narrative.

It's an imagined stick to beat DM with...nothing more just bollix

[markowl]

1 hour ago, Jack the Hat said:

I agree. I also think Appleton would have got us promoted. I don't like either manager or rate them highly , but they are still light years ahead of Moore tactically. It's painful to watch, seeing the manager of our club being taken to school by average managers.

Appleton?

 

The one that has just avoided relegation with Lincoln, and subsequently been sacked?

[Gbear1867]

21 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Yep.

 

I don't get all this 'tactically out-thought' stuff going around on here today.

 

Sunderland were drifting towards a 0-0 halftime scoreline in their home leg of the playoffs until Hutchinson's brain-fart. Had he done what 99% of centre backs would in that situation and cleared it into row Z, then we'd have had the perfect away performance up to that point, and a very solid base-camp on which to build.

 

As it was, that goal turned the tide in a massive way - rather than being subdued and anxious, Sunderland's fans went ballistic; their team came out smelling blood; and we had a real job on our hands to dig in and weather the storm. But we did just that. And then we ended the game on top, although without creating that gilt-edged chance which we needed.

 

And so to the second leg: Sunderland didn't play us off the park, create loads of chances, or even look remotely threatening - they frustrated us, knocked us out of our stride, and generally kept things tight, without attacking too much themselves. Once that plan fell apart and we got the equaliser, they had a storm of their own to weather, which they did - and in the same way that we got a bit lucky at times in the first leg, they got a bit lucky in the second: that deflection off their defender which spun wide of the post or the penalty which could have been etc...

 

But again, a really poor piece of defending from us let them in just as we were turning the screw and pushing for a winner.

 

I didn't see a tactical masterclass in those games; I saw two evenly-matched teams cancelling each other out for long stretches, with only brief periods where one or the other really got on top and looked to be dominating.

 

Unfortunately for us, we made two dreadful defensive errors which handed them a win.

 

But on another day, we could well have won last night.

 

This 'tactical masterclass' from Neil left quite a lot to chance, didn't it?

Well said, that's exactly how I saw it. SAFC were marginally better over the two legs but there was no massive chasm between us and them.

 

I think Sunderland looked a bit sharper than us, quicker into the tackle etc. but the margins between both sides were wafer thin.

[DJMortimer]

7 minutes ago, markowl said:

Appleton?

 

The one that has just avoided relegation with Lincoln, and subsequently been sacked?

 

Let's be honest, 90% of those suggested are either laughably unrealistic or simply do not live up to the supposed standards we should be looking for. Most of the time it's less about a considered improvement on the current situation than it is a bit of a tantrum.

 

 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

58 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

If anything, I think it is quite revelatory for the psychology of those pushing such a narrative.

 

 

I am extremely disappointed with the way we tackled the play offs.

I am disappointed with the way we have struggled to change in game tactics throughout the season. - in particular substitutions.

I am disappointed with our continual inability to defend set pieces.

I am disappointed with the continual changes to winning formations. 

I am disappointed this squad did not achieve promotion.

 

I feel Moore is tactically naive and we would benefit from an experienced manager - who ever that may be. My views are shared by the majority of fans I speak too. But most of all I am sick and tired of the constant use of terms like 'non footballing reasons' and now 'revelatory for the psychology of those pushing the narrative'. 

Why can't you accept i have different opinion to you, without having to make nasty insinuations? If you have something to say, then say it directly without hiding behind 'narrative?'. I accept your opinion and take on board your stats. But I cannot stand your pretentious accusations. I have a different opinion to you. Thats all. You do not know me so don't try to assume you have the first clue as to what kind of person I am in the wider context.

[DJMortimer]

Just now, Jack the Hat said:

I am extremely disappointed with the way we tackled the play offs.

I am disappointed with the way we have struggled to change in game tactics throughout the season. - in particular substitutions.

I am disappointed with our continual inability to defend set pieces.

I am disappointed with the continual changes to winning formations. 

I am disappointed this squad did not achieve promotion.

 

I feel Moore is tactically naive and we would benefit from an experienced manager - who ever that may be. My views are shared by the majority of fans I speak too. But most of all I am sick and tired of the constant use of terms like 'non footballing reasons' and now 'revelatory for the psychology of those pushing the narrative'. 

Why can't you accept i have different opinion to you, without having to make nasty insinuations? If you have something to say, then say it directly without hiding behind 'narrative?'. I accept your opinion and take on board your stats. But I cannot stand your pretentious accusations. I have a different opinion to you. Thats all. You do not know me so don't try to assume you have the first clue as to what kind of person I am in the wider context.

 

It's notable that you have taken a reasonably generic statement quite so personally. Just to take the proverbial, I'm tempted to leap to some psychological conclusions on the back of that, but I won't.

 

Putting aside a comment that was never aimed at you, or indeed any other specific individual in isolation; based solely on the cliches, petulance,  daydreaming, contradictions, inconsistencies, circular logic, self-fulfilling prophecies etc that are used routinely on this site, I can predict with some confidence that a number of people advocating the regular scratching of the 'major clear out' itch are simply not capable of formulating a cogent and logical case for doing so. I have made no assertion or inference that you are one of them or not. Forgive me, but it takes more than some sweeping soundbites like 'tactically naïve' or 'no plan B' to justify the significant effects this would have, especially on the back of a campaign where things went better than the majority expected and came close to achieving the ultimate goal. 

 

For the record. I do not remotely agree with the 'non football reasons' subtext you allude to here either and see it as something of a cheap shot from those who use it.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

8 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

It's notable that you have taken a reasonably generic statement quite so personally. Just to take the proverbial, I'm tempted to leap to some psychological conclusions on the back of that, but I won't.

 

Putting aside a comment that was never aimed at you, or indeed any other specific individual in isolation; based solely on the cliches, petulance,  daydreaming, contradictions, inconsistencies, circular logic, self-fulfilling prophecies etc that are used routinely on this site, I can predict with some confidence that a number of people advocating the regular scratching of the 'major clear out' itch are simply not capable of formulating a cogent and logical case for doing so. I have made no assertion or inference that you are one of them or not. Forgive me, but it takes more than some sweeping soundbites like 'tactically naïve' or 'no plan B' to justify the significant effects this would have, especially on the back of a campaign where things went better than the majority expected and came close to achieving the ultimate goal. 

 

For the record. I do not remotely agree with the 'non football reasons' subtext you allude to here either and see it as something of a cheap shot from those who use it.

ok

[brian joicey]

2 hours ago, markg said:

Fair enough. Neil is a very good manager.

It took a long time for Sunderland to stumble upon him though, and he still hasn't seen the job through. If Wycombe beat them, will everyone be saying we should have sacked Moore and gone after Ainsworth?

nah! i don't like Neils' style of play  (it's not good on the eye) but it's effective ,especially at this level.  

[brian joicey]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Yep.

 

I don't get all this 'tactically out-thought' stuff going around on here today.

 

Sunderland were drifting towards a 0-0 halftime scoreline in their home leg of the playoffs until Hutchinson's brain-fart. Had he done what 99% of centre backs would in that situation and cleared it into row Z, then we'd have had the perfect away performance up to that point, and a very solid base-camp on which to build.

 

As it was, that goal turned the tide in a massive way - rather than being subdued and anxious, Sunderland's fans went ballistic; their team came out smelling blood; and we had a real job on our hands to dig in and weather the storm. But we did just that. And then we ended the game on top, although without creating that gilt-edged chance which we needed.

 

And so to the second leg: Sunderland didn't play us off the park, create loads of chances, or even look remotely threatening - they frustrated us, knocked us out of our stride, and generally kept things tight, without attacking too much themselves. Once that plan fell apart and we got the equaliser, they had a storm of their own to weather, which they did - and in the same way that we got a bit lucky at times in the first leg, they got a bit lucky in the second: that deflection off their defender which spun wide of the post or the penalty which could have been etc...

 

But again, a really poor piece of defending from us let them in just as we were turning the screw and pushing for a winner.

 

I didn't see a tactical masterclass in those games; I saw two evenly-matched teams cancelling each other out for long stretches, with only brief periods where one or the other really got on top and looked to be dominating.

 

Unfortunately for us, we made two dreadful defensive errors which handed them a win.

 

But on another day, we could well have won last night.

 

This 'tactical masterclass' from Neil left quite a lot to chance, didn't it?

from my personal point of view i'm not talking about tactics, more the phsycology /motivational/organisational  side of things. this is where i think Neil has the edge and this is where the tie was won/lost because there was absolutely NOTHING between the teams . 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

8 minutes ago, brian joicey said:

from my personal point of view i'm not talking about tactics, more the phsycology /motivational/organisational  side of things. this is where i think Neil has the edge and this is where the tie was won/lost because there was absolutely NOTHING between the teams . 

 

I don't know how to accurately assess these things, to be honest with you - both sides looked well-organised and motivated for the most part, but whereas we were unable to punish any mistakes Sunderland made, they capitalised on two of ours in clinical fashion. 

 

Psychologically, the fact that we've conceded so many late goals and Sunderland have scored so many themselves in recent months must play a part, though. You'd hope that the sports psychologist Moore brought in will start to pay dividends in time, but it clearly won't be a quick process to turn around a squad who'd got into some terrible habits in recent years.

[belfast owl lad]

The guy has failed us twice,get rid. He seems a decent sort of bloke but that's no reason to think he will get us promoted next season.

[quinnssweetshop]

2 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

we could well have won last night.

 

 

We didn't

Moore had no plan B - He never has. He needs to learn to read the game the same way we can see it.
Till then, we will keep on losing stupid games in which he is being out thought by opposing management, no matter that teams league status.

 

[DJMortimer]

12 minutes ago, quinnssweetshop said:

Moore had no plan B

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by DJMortimer

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 hour ago, quinnssweetshop said:

We didn't

Moore had no plan B - He never has. He needs to learn to read the game the same way we can see it.
Till then, we will keep on losing stupid games in which he is being out thought by opposing management, no matter that teams league status.

 

You're not seriously suggesting that us lot on here understand the game better than Darren Moore, are you?

[quinnssweetshop]

Just now, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

You're not seriously suggesting that us lot on here understand the game better than Darren Moore, are you?

 Of course !!!  Can't you see what i'm saying. Everyone's an expert.

[quinnssweetshop]

57 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

You're not a bloke for cliches eh ? 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

14 minutes ago, quinnssweetshop said:

 Of course !!!  Can't you see what i'm saying. Everyone's an expert.

 

I'll be honest, I'm struggling to work out what you're saying.