US crypto currency guys looking to buy English club

[owlinexile]

5 minutes ago, Owling with laughter said:

Thanks, genuinely for going to the trouble of explaining that.

 

I’ll never understand how something that someone has created on a computer can be worth anything though. To me it sounds like I could go out and create Owling coin, limit it to 20,000 copies but make it impossible for someone else to replicate. I could value each copy at £10,000 and sit back and wait for the money to roll in.

 

Honestly, it’s mind boggling how people fall for it.

 

Of course, the REAL problem with NFTs is that buying one in no way grants you any actual rights over the content, and someone else might well own the actual copyright.  What you are actually buying is just the metadata - aka the link to the 'space' on the internet that the file occupies, the information about who 'owns' it etc.

 

Your actual ownership rights are about as legally sound as one of those certificates that says you have an acre of land on the moon.

[Neal M]

“So we are going to try a bunch of unconventional stuff, but will be pretty much led by the numbers from an analytical perspective. And our hope is that it works. There’s not that much downside if it doesn’t.”

 

Aside from the possible liquidation of the club and the impact that would have on an entire community.

 

What an absolute ******** to make a statement like that.

[31Dec1966]

1 hour ago, Owling with laughter said:

Thanks, genuinely for going to the trouble of explaining that.

 

I’ll never understand how something that someone has created on a computer can be worth anything though. To me it sounds like I could go out and create Owling coin, limit it to 20,000 copies but make it impossible for someone else to replicate. I could value each copy at £10,000 and sit back and wait for the money to roll in.

 

Honestly, it’s mind boggling how people fall for it.

It isn't worth anything. China and India have banned this crypto nonsense. The world has indeed gone mad. It is a giant scam that people give credence to because "computer people" have invented it. 

[31Dec1966]

52 minutes ago, owlinexile said:

 

Of course, the REAL problem with NFTs is that buying one in no way grants you any actual rights over the content, and someone else might well own the actual copyright.  What you are actually buying is just the metadata - aka the link to the 'space' on the internet that the file occupies, the information about who 'owns' it etc.

 

Your actual ownership rights are about as legally sound as one of those certificates that says you have an acre of land on the moon.

And this is another scam.People are blinded by "digital wizards" who they view as cleverer than them . 

[owlinexile]

36 minutes ago, 31Dec1966 said:

It isn't worth anything. China and India have banned this crypto nonsense. The world has indeed gone mad. It is a giant scam that people give credence to because "computer people" have invented it. 

 

The main argument you will hear is 'well, fiat currency also only has value because people believe it does'.

 

Ignoring the fact that fiat currency is actually given its value by the creditworthiness of the issuer (usually a nation-state) and that value is actively maintained by the actions of a central bank whose remit is to act intelligently in order to keep it stable.  That 'belief' that it will maintain its value over time and therefore be able to function as a currency isn't built on thin air.

 

Crypto-currency started off as a (naive but well meaning) attempt to decouple the concept of currency from the nation-state.  The money supply would be controlled by the fact that 'mining' new coins involves solving harder and harder equations, taking more computing power and energy each time.  But this hasn't been enough to protect it from the attention of speculative investors.

 

Something can't possibly be a good high-yield investment asset AND a good currency - because you absolutely don't want your currency to constantly increase in value.  No one will want to spend it - people will hoard it and take it out of circulation.  No one will want to borrow in it, say for a house or a business startup, because the real size of your debt will keep increasing as the value of the 'currency' increases.  Companies won't want to pay salaries in it, because their payroll costs will just keep increasing and increasing relative to their turnover (unless they do ALL their business in the same crypto).  Deflation is lethal to an economy, and without a central bank actively managing the supply, there is no mechanism to protect the new currency from it.

 

Ideally you want your currency to be very slowly decreasing in value - enough that people are motivated to spend it and keep it moving, but not so much that it can't act as a long-term store of value.  No would-be CryptoBros are getting rich from that kind of an asset though.  Keeping it super volatile and next to useless as an actual currency is in their direct financial interests.

 

 

 

 

 

[fpowl]

Read the article and never felt stupid 

 

what on earth was that 

 

are they basically saying they want to use investment like Bitcoin and use money ball for their recruitment or transfer policy?

 

im confused it was a lot of words what meant little to me 

[mcmigo]

It is nerds who think they have struck gold laundering money in a pyramid scheme which is a bubble , to explain it in simpler terms . 

[owlinexile]

3 minutes ago, fpowl said:

Read the article and never felt stupid 

 

what on earth was that 

 

are they basically saying they want to use investment like Bitcoin and use money ball for their recruitment or transfer policy?

 

im confused it was a lot of words what meant little to me 

 

They want to buy a football club and fund it by selling NFTs.

 

It's basically like funding it with a share issue to fans, except instead of buying a share in the ownership of the club with voting rights etc, you are buying little digital pictures of the players and stuff that you hope will totally one day be worth more than you paid for them.

 

They reckon they will sell so many little digital pictures of the players and stuff, that they will be able to buy their way into the Premier League by using data analytics and essentially just outspending everyone.

 

I don't think they have realised that every ******** uses data analytics these days.

 

 

[hasthagotanycheese]

DC's Wet Dream

 

 

Of course I'll sell my football club to you Mr Crypto. The price? Why its merely pocket change for you, I'll let you have it for just a Billion Dollars. I will also throw in D-Taxis & Elev8 as well. You are properly having my pants down so I can only accept payment up front in cash.

[Whitechapel Owl]

35 minutes ago, fpowl said:

Read the article and never felt stupid 

 

what on earth was that 

 

are they basically saying they want to use investment like Bitcoin and use money ball for their recruitment or transfer policy?

 

im confused it was a lot of words what meant little to me 

 

Basically it says that the framus intersects with the ramistan approximately at the paternoster. 

[Birley Owl 1867]

53 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

It is nerds who think they have struck gold laundering money in a pyramid scheme which is a bubble , to explain it in simpler terms . 

Pretty decent bubble that, considering it has been on the rise for the past 7 years.

[Birley Owl 1867]

3 hours ago, Owling with laughter said:

Thanks, genuinely for going to the trouble of explaining that.

 

I’ll never understand how something that someone has created on a computer can be worth anything though. To me it sounds like I could go out and create Owling coin, limit it to 20,000 copies but make it impossible for someone else to replicate. I could value each copy at £10,000 and sit back and wait for the money to roll in.

 

Honestly, it’s mind boggling how people fall for it.

Why not? It is just like the same as anything else created really. If someone wants to put a value to it then that's it. Example I always use is what actual value has the Mona Lisa got? It's just some paint on a canvas, it has no real world value except what we place on it.

 

You would need a decent computer btw to be able to create 20 000 coins. It isn't just something you decide randomly the amount. It is all related to super computers solving increasingly difficult theoretical mathematical problems. This is called mining. Also, each problem is unique - once used it can no longer be 'mined'.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

The whole crypto space which includes NFTs is just a proxy for central banks losing control of the system. 
 

Continuous easy monetary policy has meant many, particularly rich Americans have access to unprecedentedly cheap borrowing. When there’s excess money floating about speculative stuff goes up in value. 
 

So far I’ve not seen any signs that crypto has at all decoupled from the stock market bubble which has been going on at least 5 years, maybe longer with the blow off phase coming with covid stimulus.

 

Once the Fed stop growing their balance sheet we’ll see which things actually have value. A lot of this stuff is worthless and won’t handle liquidity being withdrawn. All going to zero in a deflationary debt bust as the central bank policy mistake has already occurred. 

[Neon Nick]

Based upon the method of payment,  and the buyers,  I'd hope that no English Football Club would accept such an offer.   

[mcmigo]

6 hours ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Pretty decent bubble that, considering it has been on the rise for the past 7 years.

It is

 

much like the banking crisis ( 2000 to 2007) .

 

 

[ChapSmurf]

12 hours ago, owlinexile said:

 

It's actually not that complicated. 

 

Say you have a computer file or a piece of electronic data.  Could be anything - a song, a piece of artwork, an object in a computer game.  Doesn't matter.

 

Normally, that piece of data can be perfectly copied, as many times as you want.  If you download a piece of music, the person who originally uploaded it still 'has' it - now there are two identical copies.

 

Basic economics therefore suggests that that data is therefore intrinsically worthless.  Imagine if anyone could take a £10 note and perfectly copy it whenever they want.  It would immediately become useless as currency. 

 

Now, there is a technology called 'blockchain'.  It doesn't really matter how it works exactly, but what it does is create an unalterable record of something, for example who owns a particular file.

 

All of a sudden you can check this record and see who owns the 'original' file and who has copies.  It is therefore possible to 'own' a computer file like you can own a physical object in the real world, and your version of it can be acknowledged as the only 'real' one.

 

This is the basis of how crypto-currency exists.  If there is only a finite amount of something, and ownership can easily be determined by checking an un-falsifiable record, then it can have actual value (as long as people believe it has actual value, but that's a different argument).

 

NFTs are the latest iteration of this idea.  The concept is basically - in the real world, there is a difference between, say, the actual Mona Lisa and a print of the Mona Lisa you can buy from the Louvre gift shop, right?  So, given that we can now mark out which of these pieces of JPEG art/YouTube videos/whatever is the 'genuine' one, shouldn't the same principle apply?

 

People like the two chaps above will therefore happily take your money to be the one who actually 'owns' that video of Fenton the dog chasing those deer, or the Meme template of Steve Buscemi trying to blend in with teenagers, or whatever.  The idea is that it might appreciate in value and you can sell it for a profit, just like any other asset.  Your mileage may vary on exactly how confidence scam-adjacent this all is.

 

A perfect explanation of NFT's. I can take a while to get your head around the concept, but this sums it up nicely. A 12 year old artist from the US recently made over $4M selling NFT's of her artwork. To be fair, she has a talent. A 12 year old in the UK, who made Weird Whales sold almost £300K of NFT's, so it can be big business.

 

Barcelona, Lazio, Porto, Santos, Arsenal and Man City, to name but a few, have all released their own digital collectible NFT's, and this can generate huge profits for the clubs involved.

[Guest Grandad]

16 hours ago, parkfieldowl14 said:

Dodged a potential bullet there.

Man laid in gutter in pool of blood suffering multiple gunshot wounds, stabbed over 50 times, disembowelled and with all major limbs broken - grateful to have dodged a bullet

[owlinexile]

9 hours ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Why not? It is just like the same as anything else created really. If someone wants to put a value to it then that's it. Example I always use is what actual value has the Mona Lisa got? It's just some paint on a canvas, it has no real world value except what we place on it.

 

Well, as I mentioned, the difference is that you AREN'T buying the Mona Lisa.

 

You are essentially buying a map of the Louvre which has the Mona Lisa marked on it and says that you 'own' it.

 

If the gallery is closed or decides to move the painting, there is nothing you can do to stop them. 

 

Similarly, you don't own the copyright to the image. If whoever does decides they don't want you using it, you can't use it.

 

You don't have any more actual ownership rights than anyone else.

 

 

[steelcityowlsfan]

Reminds me of when that Max Keiser was taking about us. Anyone remember him?

[Birley Owl 1867]

18 minutes ago, owlinexile said:

 

Well, as I mentioned, the difference is that you AREN'T buying the Mona Lisa.

 

You are essentially buying a map of the Louvre which has the Mona Lisa marked on it and says that you 'own' it.

 

If the gallery is closed or decides to move the painting, there is nothing you can do to stop them. 

 

Similarly, you don't own the copyright to the image. If whoever does decides they don't want you using it, you can't use it.

 

You don't have any more actual ownership rights than anyone else.

 

 

No, you own the little piece of code that the image is on. The block chain. Once the artist has uploading it for sale, he has lost control of it  That's it.

 

The artist cant stop you from using it anymore, and why would they, each transaction you make for it earns them money.

 

It doesn't stop people from downloading it and saving it to their PC or whatever and them distributing it. But as you say, these things as basically worthless anyway.

 

If people want to buy one then so be it. There a much a piece of art than anything in a physical gallery. But it isn't my cup of tea.