Derby- Enter Administration

[Harrysgame]

10 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

Just read that they are accepting a punishment rather than going to inquiry etc in future. If only we'd done that we'd have stayed up. Shame our owner didn't have the sense that derby's seems to have. Or the contacts. 

In fairness Derby have learnt from us. EFL, wanted us relegated.

[Harrysgame]

8 hours ago, SwellOwl said:

It is ridiculous that this has dragged over into the season to make a decision. 

 

Also, the element of club and EFL discussing and agreeing a punishment. Has any other club had this option?

 

Think the EFL will be nervous of spending 0000"s on lawyers on a protracted case again

[Raminpeace]

EFL want us relegated too.

not sure that that attitude is really appropriate but hey ho.

 

[Raminpeace]

Quote

Sheffield Wednesday had their points deduction for breaching EFL profitability and sustainability regulations reduced because an appeal panel found the original punishment was “excessively severe”, reports Nancy Frostick. A published report of the appeal hearing revealed that the appeal panel felt it was significant that Wednesday had tried to meet financial regulations by selling their stadium, Hillsborough, even though the sale was not completed before the cut off date to be eligible for the accounting period in question.

the EFL should be embarrassed by their own conduct

[latemodelchild]

44 minutes ago, Raminpeace said:

the EFL should be embarrassed by their own conduct

They're making it up as they go along. We should have taken our punishment and negotiated a lower points deduction. If we'd accepted the 6 points straight off (if offered) we would have been in a better situation as far as signing players is concerned. In the end the 6 points killed us but I think the initial 12 hit us harder initially. If you know what I mean. Ultimately our owner isn't as switched on as yours it seems. 

[Raminpeace]

2 minutes ago, latemodelchild said:

They're making it up as they go along. We should have taken our punishment and negotiated a lower points deduction. If we'd accepted the 6 points straight off (if offered) we would have been in a better situation as far as signing players is concerned. In the end the 6 points killed us but I think the initial 12 hit us harder initially. If you know what I mean. Ultimately our owner isn't as switched on as yours it seems. 

I’m not sure ours is switched on.

But he’d like to think he is. 

[latemodelchild]

Just now, Raminpeace said:

I’m not sure ours is switched on.

But he’d like to think he is. 

If he gets you off with just a 9 point deduction, considering the 5 charges etc, then he must be doing summat. 

 

Probably best if we agree that both owners could be better cos it's gonna get a bit like a man wi no legs laughing at a man wi no arms. 

[Raminpeace]

1 minute ago, latemodelchild said:

If he gets you off with just a 9 point deduction, considering the 5 charges etc, then he must be doing summat. 

 

Probably best if we agree that both owners could be better cos it's gonna get a bit like a man wi no legs laughing at a man wi no arms. 

 

The five charges are a bit daft as three of them are effectively the same thing - non-submission of accounts - but the EFL know that the accounts cannot be officially lodged until unofficially agreed by all parties first, and the unofficial accounts must have been submitted. It was noted by the disciplinary committee that Derby submitted the alternative accounts then, and how else could the EFL determine that 9 points was appropriate penalty?
it could be argued that the debts are an unrelated, more modern problem arising out of the pandemic, - the loss of revenue, and the owner running out of cash. I think a lot of clubs will soon be demonstrating similar financial problems arising from lockdown.
The transfer debt is now paid. Just all the other debts to worry about now.

 

 

 

[fudge27]

13 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

Just read that they are accepting a punishment rather than going to inquiry etc in future. If only we'd done that we'd have stayed up. Shame our owner didn't have the sense that derby's seems to have. Or the contacts. 

Eh? 

 

Didn't we get 12 which was lowered to 6? No negotiation? 

[Southie_Owl]

12 hours ago, Pulcinella said:

If we’d done that wouldn’t we have been on -9pts? (12 puts minus 3pts). In the end we got it reduced to -6pts.
 

Can’t help but think that starting on -12pts had a huge negative effect on the club, managers and players. Took us age to catch up, and every time we did we didn’t pull ahead.

 

Derby are fortunate to have score 7pts already reducing the deficit dramatically without the same pressure.

Agree with this,  starting on minus 12 points is almost impossible to deal with, we know that some players didn’t want to sign for us because of it. And we ended up with the likes of Izzy brown and Kachunga who are poor players. Disappointing but that’s what being a Wednesday fan is all about.  

[wakefieldowl]

1 hour ago, Raminpeace said:

 

The five charges are a bit daft as three of them are effectively the same thing - non-submission of accounts - but the EFL know that the accounts cannot be officially lodged until unofficially agreed by all parties first, and the unofficial accounts must have been submitted. It was noted by the disciplinary committee that Derby submitted the alternative accounts then, and how else could the EFL determine that 9 points was appropriate penalty?
it could be argued that the debts are an unrelated, more modern problem arising out of the pandemic, - the loss of revenue, and the owner running out of cash. I think a lot of clubs will soon be demonstrating similar financial problems arising from lockdown.
The transfer debt is now paid. Just all the other debts to worry about now.

 

 

 

How much debt do you have out of interest ?

If it helps, at least the trees are in a shambles. When we had the same situation, the pigs were multi millionaires in the pompous league

[Raminpeace]

37 minutes ago, wakefieldowl said:

How much debt do you have out of interest ?

If it helps, at least the trees are in a shambles. When we had the same situation, the pigs were multi millionaires in the pompous league

I reckon we owe Morris over £100m in loans  - but he’s unlikely to see much if any of that back

we are rumoured to owe Cocu and co £8m, and keogh 2m

the HMRC debt - speculated to be £20m 

the debts to the money lenders - Henry gabay 15m?  And Dell - another 15m? these may be MM debts rather than dcfc debts

I’ve just picked that up from reading various articles, so the figures can’t be substantiated, but it often stated that buyers are put off by £60m of debts (which would exclude the loans from MM).

 

 

[prowl]

If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger. I think that is possibly true in our case. We will see at the end of the season. I don't think we would have had the clear out we have had if we'd stayed up. I mean that in respect of Chansiri's apparent change of attitude as much as the refresh of the squad. Who knows we might still have had Monk as manager.

[Maddogbob]

29 minutes ago, Raminpeace said:

I reckon we owe Morris over £100m in loans  - but he’s unlikely to see much if any of that back

we are rumoured to owe Cocu and co £8m, and keogh 2m

the HMRC debt - speculated to be £20m 

the debts to the money lenders - Henry gabay 15m?  And Dell - another 15m? these may be MM debts rather than dcfc debts

I’ve just picked that up from reading various articles, so the figures can’t be substantiated, but it often stated that buyers are put off by £60m of debts (which would exclude the loans from MM).

 

 

What's the deal with Morris, has his company collapsed? Or is it a case he won't chuck anymore money derbys way?

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Maddogbob

[Raminpeace]

8 minutes ago, Maddogbob said:

What's the deal with Morris, has his company collapsed? Or is it a case he won't chuck anymore money derbys way?

 

 

He’s not telling but the fact that he is taking out loans secured on the stadium (no longer owned by the club) and the training ground, it would suggest he has run out of cash / liquid assets. I suspect that the pandemic loss of income is a big factor. 

[Maddogbob]

5 minutes ago, Raminpeace said:

He’s not telling but the fact that he is taking out loans secured on the stadium (no longer owned by the club) and the training ground, it would suggest he has run out of cash / liquid assets. I suspect that the pandemic loss of income is a big factor. 

Worrying situation, the points loss is insignificant, should the club be in jeopardy.

 

That said, someone will always buy it in the end.

[MSN SYSOP]

On 15/09/2021 at 21:25, Sefton owl said:

6 minutes ago, Maddogbob said:

Worrying situation, the points loss is insignificant, should the club be in jeopardy.

 

That said, someone will always buy it in the end.

Derby sound in a worse situation than us.

[Raminpeace]

We’ve been here before.

But what i struggle with is how quickly we’ve ended up in this big a mess.

Before Mel we were debt free, 3rd in the league, we owned our stadium , and we had Will Hughes.

 

we were losing £7m per annum, which the owners wrote off.

for a championship club, that was pretty good, but it’s hardly sustainable long term.

the championship is an unhealthy financial place to be. 

 

[MSN SYSOP]

13 minutes ago, Raminpeace said:

We’ve been here before.

But what i struggle with is how quickly we’ve ended up in this big a mess.

Before Mel we were debt free, 3rd in the league, we owned our stadium , and we had Will Hughes.

 

we were losing £7m per annum, which the owners wrote off.

for a championship club, that was pretty good, but it’s hardly sustainable long term.

the championship is an unhealthy financial place to be. 

 

I honestly don't know what to say mate as it's a shambles and it's the fans who suffer....seems like yesterday singing to each other at pride Park we'll see you at Wembley 2016....that went  t.i.t.s.up 

[1867Heaven]

On 15/09/2021 at 21:25, Sefton owl said:

Not sure how much is in this

Lawsuit incoming from Del Boy hopefully