Fan Ownership of Football Clubs

[Manwë]

Should it happen?  

 

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

How do you set up a poll?  

[matthefish2002]

When Wednesdayite had 10% share in the club it caused enough problems, I dread to think the falling out if they had 51%.

[vulva]

Why would anyone with any money or ambition buy anything where they only have 49% of the shares. 

[matthefish2002]

Sheffield Wednesday were kind of owned by the fans up until about 2010 and we nearly ended up going bust.

I knew a few people who had a few small shares that they had in there family for years.

I thought it was a sad but necessary day when it ended.

 

Don't forget as well when results were first good under Chansiri many, many fans were not bothered about fan ownership, high ticket prices, no blue and white stripes, owners name on everything except the club cat.

These things are only really an issue to many now we have nosedived on the pitch.

Edited April 21, 2021 by matthefish2002

[Inspector Lestrade]

Are enough of us knowledgable enough to make a proper judgement on this matter? Might be better if someone could set out the arguments for and against.

 

 

[Manwë]

19 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

How do you set up a poll?  

 

"Create New Topic", and then tab along to "Poll".

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 minute ago, Manwë said:

 

"Create New Topic", and then tab along to "Poll".

 

WOW, never noticed that before. 

[Manwë]

Fan Ownership Pros:

 

- Fans/Club in tune with each other, re: ticket prices, merchandise etc

- More likely to run the club on a sounder basis because there's no guarantor.

- Fans more likely to "buy in" to what the Club are doing

- Board of Directors accountable to shareholders, just as always.  These would appoint managers based on their best decisions.

- Alternative sources of revenue must be explored

 

 

Fan Ownership Cons:

 

- No bail out should the need arise.

- No sudden cash investment in the transfer market if the money simply isn't there

 

I'm sure there's many more of both, but that's all I can think of right now.

 

 

[Manwë]

56 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

When Wednesdayite had 10% share in the club it caused enough problems, I dread to think the falling out if they had 51%.

 

What problems did it create?  The biggest I seem to remember was that the SWFC Board wanted the 10%, but Wednesdayite said "no".  How is it a problem as such that a democratic organisation chose not to hand over shares to Dave Allen's future of SWFC, but then chose to hand over the 10% to Milan Mandarich's future of SWFC?  It seems the ownership of shares wasn't the issue, the issue was that Wednesdayite didn't cave in to demands from other shareholders to give shares to the Board (who initially, didn't want the shares so gave them away)

1 hour ago, vulva said:

Why would anyone with any money or ambition buy anything where they only have 49% of the shares. 

Good question.  

 

56 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

Don't forget as well when results were first good under Chansiri many, many fans were not bothered about fan ownership, high ticket prices, no blue and white stripes, owners name on everything except the club cat.

These things are only really an issue to many now we have nosedived on the pitch.

 

I'm going to disagree there.  I think high ticket prices have been an issue for many since the fateful questionnaire.  Going back to the ESL/Big 6 questions, there's clearly a set of fans where money is no object to attending.  But for some, often unseen, attendances is dependent on ticket prices.   I think the issue with Chansiri is not just that we have nosedived on the field, but also why we have nosedived is because of our off the field shenanigans as led us to a place we can't buy players that are realistically good enough.

42 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

Are enough of us knowledgable enough to make a proper judgement on this matter? Might be better if someone could set out the arguments for and against.

 

 

 

Very few of us are I reckon, but then that speaks for all of us who own shares or have a pension.  We are not making judgements in operational matters per se, we make an annual judgement (if can be arsed) on whether the board are doing a good job, and whether they should be re-appointed.  While 51% would mean the fans are represented most at the highest level, their day-to-day involvement would be minimal.  The board/chairman/CEO would be answerable to the fans ultimately.

[Jim]

1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said:

Sheffield Wednesday were kind of owned by the fans up until about 2010 and we nearly ended up going bust.

I knew a few people who had a few small shares that they had in there family for years.

I thought it was a sad but necessary day when it ended.

 

Don't forget as well when results were first good under Chansiri many, many fans were not bothered about fan ownership, high ticket prices, no blue and white stripes, owners name on everything except the club cat.

These things are only really an issue to many now we have nosedived on the pitch.

 

As you say we’ve been owned by the fans in the past and that worked, didn’t it? I think fans feel more self entitled due to the extortionate prices they now pay to watch their team play. Fan ownership here would be even worse than last time.

[matthefish2002]

10 minutes ago, Manwë said:

.  I'm going to disagree there.  I think high ticket prices have been an issue for many since the fateful questionnaire.  Going back to the ESL/Big 6 questions, there's clearly a set of fans where money is no object to attending.  But for some, often unseen, attendances is dependent on ticket prices.   I think the issue with Chansiri is not just that we have nosedived on the field, but also why we have nosedived is because of our off the field shenanigans as led us to a place we can't buy players that are realistically good enough.

 

 

 

Ticket prices were an issue to some but I remember many people on here and people I know personally defending them.

'If you want good players'
'Don't like it don't pay'
'You wont be moaning when we are in the Premier League'

 

Didn't the results of the questionnaire say people wanted high ticket prices for better players?

 

Fan ownership is good in theory but dont think it would work in practise.

Would only take 1 club not to do it and be owned by a billionaire and they could buy all the best players.

 

[CircleSeven]

When the government kicked off about the ESL there was a lot of talk of clubs being ‘Community Assets’ that the model we should be looking to actually have in practice hence my vote for fan ownership. That said with football as it is currently (massive wage inflation, player prices, huge gap between Prem and EFL, COVID etc etc) the whole thing needs shaking up. For me to get fans engaged you need a lot more to be done at the grass roots level to get kids more interested in the game. My kids liked football but if you weren’t brilliant at it there was basically nowhere to play. Instead they played hockey. The Hockey club has about 8 teams. You can be enthusiastic but rubbish and still get a game. No such structure for football. So they no longer give a monkeys about football. I played as a kid right through to Uni. I was rubbish but could get a game which got me hooked. 
So much needs fixing and there just isn’t the appetite. 

[S36 OWL]

GIZ SHARES BACK 

[Lucas Joao's Tooth]

There is massive problems in our game, completely lost interest in the Premier League to a point i never watch it anymore, The Championship is slowly becoming that, It's getting to a point where i rather go and support the local non league teams and give them the much needed investment and watch football as we once knew it.
 

Ownership:
Too many foreign owners with too much power and more money than sense, we've seen this past week how much they care for our countries footballing history and our fans.
How do you police this better though? It's a - only time will tell situation, for 10 bad owners their is the odd good ones like the owners at Leicester who shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as these cretins.
We have been affected by it ourselves with Chansiri. These are people that are leeches and no good for our game. They have zero understanding of the actual game, some don't even understand the offside rule.
It's a reputation thing as well, it's seen as a trophy to own a football club especially one in England.
Football clubs were regarded money sinks and while still the case there's that much money in the game especially at the top it's becoming a profitable "business" 

How many have sucked the life and souls out of clubs with fans turning their backs?

Vincent Tan and Chansiri prime examples of not liking something so completely changing the history of a club - Cardiff moved to a red home kit and changed their badge and we changed our badge and our kit.

Did Chansiri go for broke to get us to the Prem for the money? Investment this summer will be telling.
 

We've changed our badge, kits and sold our ground without zero input from fans.
It needs a massive reform along with many other things such as salary caps/FFP.

This won't be the last power shift and attempt to create something like what they have done with the "Super League"

Sadly it's only going to get worse throughout unless a reform happens, They are trying to target worldwide fans when in reality they don't matter at all. It's the community that matters first and foremost, the fans who's clambered the steps from a young age, been there through thick and thin, the l"egacy fans" as they said. Not the Liverpool fans in America or India with Mane as their picture on Twitter who's never stepped foot in the country never mind the stadium.

Salary Caps/FFP -

This is the biggest shake up needed. The so called big 12 who wanted this league are all riddled in debt - STOP paying 100- 300k+ weekly wages and ridiculous transfer fees.

Roll out wage caps in each League - STARTING FROM THE PREM DOWN (not in the lower leagues like they tried this season)
Transfer caps -  Every league has a equal playing field and every team can only spend so much a season from Manchester City to Burnley.

It's a ideal situation which won't happen - they want the Premiership to be known as the best league in the world it's all they care about.

Don't fall for the media as well like Sky saying how bad this Super League is etc, They're as bad as anyone and have had a part to play in this there not the good guys in this.
Also Uefa and Fifa - Seen the new Champions League reform they've passed in the same days as this clusterfuc*?? Teams who haven't qualified will get a "VIP Pass" based on history etc.

Too much money in the game.

[Rogers]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

Why would anyone with any money or ambition buy anything where they only have 49% of the shares. 

How does it work in Germany? 
 

Bayern are heavily backed big business, probably through sponsorship and advertising? Adidas, Audi, Allianz, all have shares / ownership. 
 

Dortmund are in the German stick exchange. 
 

Schalke 04 generated €291m in 2019 according to wiki, ranked in Forbes as 14th richest club in the world. 
 

Wolfsburg are owned by VW. 
 

The chairmen of these massive companies usually have a seat on the board. 
 

I think the trick is to get the 49% of the club owned by football loving multinationals. 

[owlinexile]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

Why would anyone with any money or ambition buy anything where they only have 49% of the shares. 

 

They wouldn't.

 

Which is the whole point.

 

You shouldn't be able to make money from owning a football club.

[owlinexile]

2 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

When Wednesdayite had 10% share in the club it caused enough problems, I dread to think the falling out if they had 51%.

 

Owners will need to adjust their expectations accordingly.

[Guest Hornsby]

2 hours ago, vulva said:

Why would anyone with any money or ambition buy anything where they only have 49% of the shares. 

So how come  German clubs attract biggest firms in world to buy less than half shares?

[torryowl]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

 

As you say we’ve been owned by the fans in the past and that worked, didn’t it? 

It certainly did we won 4 leagues and 3 fa cups and in more recent times had top 6 finishes,Wembley appearances and long spells in the top flight ....having one owner who is answerable to no one is great if you have someone who knows what he's  doing not so much when they havnt a clue .