Jordan Rhodes

[Indoor Owl]

46 minutes ago, Jaytee said:

Consummate professional. Gets messed around by every manager and never complains. Not his fault the team don’t play to his strengths. 

 

At what point does Jordan Rhodes start to get some of the blame for an atrocious and unproductive period of time spent with Wednesday?

17 goals in 102 matches.

 

Your position is that managers, four or five of them in a row now, are treating Rhodes unfairly?

 

Every manager that has been at the club has been extremely positive about Rhodes and his potential, and gave him time on the pitch. Every manager that has been at the club has found Rhodes wanting, and started leaving him out of the starting XI, and even out of the matches entirely.

 

Once, and maybe a manager and a player aren't seeing eye to eye.

Four managers over the course of nearly five years?  There is a persistent issue with that player.  Whether it be in attitude, effort, or ability - or some combination.

 

Consummate professional, my ass.

[trevdi9]

LOL HERE WE GO , when are you going to realize the past is done no matter what Rhodes did or didn't do it matters not ,What matters is how he is doing  now , and he does not need to be subbed for no apparent reason when playing well ,what is the point in that and i will say it cost us 2 points, And let's face it Paterson ain't pulling any trees up ,love him or hate him Rhodes was doing the job well and did not deserve to be taken off on a whim , 

[Holmowl]

9 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

He should have complained and showed he was bothered.
Too happy to sit around picking up his £35k per week and not do much for it for my liking.

 

You could not be further from the truth. 

[should know better]

9 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

At what point does Jordan Rhodes start to get some of the blame for an atrocious and unproductive period of time spent with Wednesday?

17 goals in 102 matches.

 

Your position is that managers, four or five of them in a row now, are treating Rhodes unfairly?

 

Every manager that has been at the club has been extremely positive about Rhodes and his potential, and gave him time on the pitch. Every manager that has been at the club has found Rhodes wanting, and started leaving him out of the starting XI, and even out of the matches entirely.

 

Once, and maybe a manager and a player aren't seeing eye to eye.

Four managers over the course of nearly five years?  There is a persistent issue with that player.  Whether it be in attitude, effort, or ability - or some combination.

 

Consummate professional, my ass.

Lucas Joao the same, something wrong with him as every manager left him out.

[Holmowl]

9 hours ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

At what point does Jordan Rhodes start to get some of the blame for an atrocious and unproductive period of time spent with Wednesday?

17 goals in 102 matches.

 

Your position is that managers, four or five of them in a row now, are treating Rhodes unfairly?

 

Every manager that has been at the club has been extremely positive about Rhodes and his potential, and gave him time on the pitch. Every manager that has been at the club has found Rhodes wanting, and started leaving him out of the starting XI, and even out of the matches entirely.

 

Once, and maybe a manager and a player aren't seeing eye to eye.

Four managers over the course of nearly five years?  There is a persistent issue with that player.  Whether it be in attitude, effort, or ability - or some combination.

 

Consummate professional, my ass.

It makes zero sense to talk of 17 goals in 102 matches.

 

You have to look at game time.

 

I’d be interested to know which of our recent strikers you think we’re not ‘atrocious  and unproductive’. I think you’d be surprised how close Rhodes’ productivity was to theirs.

[Holmowl]

3 minutes ago, should know better said:

Lucas Joao the same, something wrong with him as every manager left him out.

Well done sir

[Holmowl]

5 hours ago, trevdi9 said:

LOL HERE WE GO , when are you going to realize the past is done no matter what Rhodes did or didn't do it matters not ,What matters is how he is doing  now , and he does not need to be subbed for no apparent reason when playing well ,what is the point in that and i will say it cost us 2 points, And let's face it Paterson ain't pulling any trees up ,love him or hate him Rhodes was doing the job well and did not deserve to be taken off on a whim , 

Too many made their mind up about Rhodes in 2017. 
 

They judge his current worth to the current team based on:-

 

1. His price

2. His 16/17 and 17/18 seasons

3. That penalty

 

Does he make us a better team than Paterson, Windass, Marriott or Kachunga? Nothing else matters unless you are bitter and twisted.

[Emilianenko]

Just now, Holmowl said:

Too many made their mind up about Rhodes in 2017. 
 

They judge his current worth to the current team based on:-

 

1. His price

2. His 16/17 and 17/18 seasons

3. That penalty

 

Does he make us a better team than Paterson, Windass, Marriott or Kachunga? Nothing else matters unless you are bitter and twisted.

Also the lazy cliches, can’t play the lone striker role, has nothing else to his game than poaching , it’s like playing with ten men.

[Holmowl]

1 minute ago, Emilianenko said:

Also the lazy cliches, can’t play the lone striker role, has nothing else to his game than poaching , it’s like playing with ten men.

My fave is the “like playing with ten men”, despite the fact that we play better and have more success (goals and points) when he starts.

[should know better]

If we had Michael Owen up front we would simply play long floaty balls up to him and then berate him for not beating the centre backs. 

Sam Winnall came with a good scoring record but not for us, was reasonably successful for Derby on loan before injury brought him back here.

If we were a team that had 65% or more possession  and got more men in the box most of our strikers over the last few years would have been more productive.

 

It is the midfield that is the weak link, we can change the forwards, goalkeepers and defenders but it will not change us from a poor long ball side. One constant in the midfield where you can apply the phrase "like playing with ten men" stands out. If you are a poor team that spends a lot of time defending the forwards become starved of service.

 

Ivan Toney would not have worked here we need a younger Fletcher for the way we play, or we adopt a different style. 

[matthefish2002]

29 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Too many made their mind up about Rhodes in 2017. 
 

They judge his current worth to the current team based on:-

 

1. His price

2. His 16/17 and 17/18 seasons

3. That penalty

 

Does he make us a better team than Paterson, Windass, Marriott or Kachunga? Nothing else matters unless you are bitter and twisted.

 

I would say during his last 5 years he must have played under at least 8 different manager at here, Middlesborough and Norwich and none of them played him regular.

 

 

[tonyem]

Could it be that J. Rhodes is unfailingly used as a pawn in whatever "game" or "strategy" which develops between our beloved chairman and his most recent managerial acquisition?

 

For instance, and I could be quite wrong, as each of the new managers start with us, Rhodes is ventured on as the "rescue goal getter (i..e. sub)" when things look a bit stale, halfway through the second half). 

 

He either gets the required goal, as it occurs to our better strategists to pass him the ball, or he menaces the opp. defenders, and it 's a sign to one of those, with a working brain, that he needs two-man marking.  Either way, chances arise for one or other of our lot to get our single solitary goal of the match --- Huzzah!  Then the pros "up their game", and for 10 minutes the fans start to get entertained.  By the journeymen. Sometimes until the final whistle, often until the other team's last-gasp equaliser/ winner/ easily-won penalty.

 

Success with this strategy goes on for a couple of games, rarely 3 and never more, and the fans settle back to watch us slide down the table. 

J. Rhodes, B. Bannan, K. Westwood etc. pick up their wages (who can blame them?).

Wednesday fans, far-flung in Seattle and, er, Rovrum, write in to protest their dismay.

This goes on until Hon. Chief fishmonger consults one of his flash con-tractors, and they pick another honest trier out of the hat.

 

Maybe they'll get lucky, next time, and pick the hat size.

 

[gurujuan]

As someone who, very early on, when we were first linked with Rhodes, pointed to the reasons why it wouldn’t work, I now wouldn’t be adverse to him staying if we go down. Belatedly, I feel he has made slight adjustments to his game which now means he has something to offer. Plus, when we drop a division, players like him still have a big role to play. Look at young Jephcott, a player we’ve been linked with recently. His game is very similar to Rhodes, he doesn’t do much outside of the six yard box, but there are a lot of players in that division, who resemble the “poachers” of old. Whether we would try to re-sign Rhodes, or whether he’d even be interested, I don’t know, but he would be a very useful player at that level for us. However, having started to adapt his game, and with there likely to be championship interest in the free agent, he may fancy his chances of another big contract. The timing of this, sums us up in a nutshell. We pay ridiculous money for a player who was always going to struggle in the championship, and now when we are on the verge of dropping down into league one, where he would likely thrive, he can walk away for nothing

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I would say during his last 5 years he must have played under at least 8 different manager at here, Middlesborough and Norwich and none of them played him regular.

 

 

Current worth to the current team.

[matthefish2002]

16 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Current worth to the current team.

 

Not very much.

[DJMortimer]

2 hours ago, Holmowl said:

It makes zero sense to talk of 17 goals in 102 matches.

 

You have to look at game time.

 

I’d be interested to know which of our recent strikers you think we’re not ‘atrocious  and unproductive’. I think you’d be surprised how close Rhodes’ productivity was to theirs.

 

Really? After our last game, he has now dropped below Windass (who you have been very critical of) in your much beloved minutes per goal statistics. And I know which one has had the advantage of being in the most talented squads for the most part. I'm sure most of us would agree that the top four in this list are the best we've had lately and he's well behind them. Not many players have been panned for a lack of goal threat like Nuhiu has and Rhodes is now a mere 8 minutes per goal better off and WAY behind in assists (if cup competitions were included, I suspect he'd actually drop below him). And this is the one category in which he's supposed to be elite. Turn your attention elsewhere in the wider role of a forward to all those things that don't get measured like this and his historical value to us falls further still.

 

But yes, I accept things have changed this season. He's offered more lately than we've come to expect and should have played more often than he has, especially when you look at the contributions of Marriot, Kachunga and even Reach briefly. However, his rise in standing should be considered against the falling standards around him as our club declines in all areas.

 

According to whoscored.com and only includes league games (updated from earlier in this thread)...

 

                     MINS       GOALS       AVG. MINS      ASSISTS     AVG. MINS

Hooper        5,998           30               199.9                12                  499.8

Fletcher       7,834           37               211.7                  7               1,119.1

Forestieri     8,740           40               218.5               13                   672.3

Joao             5,835           26               224.4                 8                   729.4              

Windass       2,502             9              278.0                  1                2,502.0

Rhodes        4,521           15               301.4                  3               1,507.0

Nuhiu         12,397           40               309.9               23                   539.0

Matias         2,912              9               323.6                 2                1,456.0

Winnall         1,680             5               336.0                 1                1,680.0

Paterson      2,232             6               372.0                 2                1,116.0

 

[Guest T Hardy]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

 

After our last game, he has now dropped below Windass (who you have been very critical of) in your much beloved minutes per goal statistics.

 

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Really? After our last game, he has now dropped below Windass (who you have been very critical of) in your much beloved minutes per goal statistics. And I know which one has had the advantage of being in the most talented squads for the most part. I'm sure most of us would agree that the top four in this list are the best we've had lately and he's well behind them. Not many players have been panned for a lack of goal threat like Nuhiu has and Rhodes is now a mere 8 minutes per goal better off and WAY behind in assists (if cup competitions were included, I suspect he'd actually drop below him). And this is the one category in which he's supposed to be elite. Turn your attention elsewhere in the wider role of a forward to all those things that don't get measured like this and his historical value to us falls further still.

 

But yes, I accept things have changed this season. He's offered more lately than we've come to expect and should have played more often than he has, especially when you look at the contributions of Marriot, Kachunga and even Reach briefly. However, his rise in standing should be considered against the falling standards around him as our club declines in all areas.

 

According to whoscored.com and only includes league games (updated from earlier in this thread)...

 

                     MINS       GOALS       AVG. MINS      ASSISTS     AVG. MINS

Hooper        5,998           30               199.9                12                  499.8

Fletcher       7,834           37               211.7                  7               1,119.1

Forestieri     8,740           40               218.5               13                   672.3

Joao             5,835           26               224.4                 8                   729.4              

Windass       2,502             9              278.0                  1                2,502.0

Rhodes        4,521           15               301.4                  3               1,507.0

Nuhiu         12,397           40               309.9               23                   539.0

Matias         2,912              9               323.6                 2                1,456.0

Winnall         1,680             5               336.0                 1                1,680.0

Paterson      2,232             6               372.0                 2                1,116.0

 

Why are you trawling back 4/5 years to paint the worst possible picture of a player?

 

This season

Rhodes = goal every 216 mins

Windass = goal every 339 mins

 

[DJMortimer]

Just now, Holmowl said:

Why are you trawling back 4/5 years to paint the worst possible picture of a player?

 

This season

Rhodes = goal every 216 mins

Windass = goal every 339 mins

 

 

Oh right, so you get to choose what is relevant and what isn't? Rhodes' time here will be judged as a dismal failure across the entire four years, not just a handful of games carefully chosen to portray his best numbers. Do you need me to post that list again of all those outliers that show even central defenders being lethal in front of goal for short periods by this limited metric? Comparing favourably with the likes of part-time wingers / midfielders / full backs such as Windass and Paterson isn't exactly what he was brought here for was it?

 

 

 

[Emilianenko]

5 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Too many made their mind up about Rhodes in 2017. 
 

They judge his current worth to the current team based on:-

 

1. His price

2. His 16/17 and 17/18 seasons

3. That penalty

 

Does he make us a better team than Paterson, Windass, Marriott or Kachunga? Nothing else matters unless you are bitter and twisted.

You can see who is bitter and twisted now.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Emilianenko