How big should our squad be

[@owlstalk]

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

Massive

[the mighty wednesday]

My uncle played for Portsmouth. He signed for them from Chesterfield for £20,000, which had been the British record only about 3 years earlier, the season after they won the First Division for the second year in a row. 1951 I think. I think the record at the time of my uncle's transfer had shot up to £34,500 in an example of an early prototype Wednesday spendageddon for Jackie Sewell from Notts County.

I saw a newspaper cutting from that time which showed their squad consisted of 46 players. One of the line ups had my uncle at left wing, a Belgian international left winger at inside left and a Scottish international left winger at centre forward.

We think big squads and stockpiling players at the top level are a modern phenomena . I wonder if the Pompey fans were up in arms about having loads of wingers and no centre forwards!

Another interesting thing about the time (well to me anyway) is that when my uncle died there was quite a long obituary article in a Portsmouth paper. He was there for 7 or 8 years and played about 120 games. The article said that he was one of the most skillful players of his era but why didn't he play more games. It said that he had a couple of spells out with injury but the main reason he didn't play so often for the first team was that they played him in a lot of reserve fixtures because his presence put 10,000 on the gate! It seems incomprehensible to us now that reserve games could get such crowds.

 

[Pulsar]

I can name all those squad players, fond memories of Shelton, Shutt, Sterland Jonsson etc

 

I strongly believe if we'd had a smaller squad with less rotation and changing of a winning team in Carlos' first year then we'd have gone up automatically. 

Especially regarding the strike force, was it 6 or 7 strikers we had? Look at Joao now with a regular run in the side and the resulting understanding with his striking partners and midfield. 

You obviously need cover for injuries but Carlos changed for the sake of changing, did too much cooking and spoiled the broth at times.

As good as we were to watch we finished well behind Burnley, Boro and even Brighton who all had settled sides. 

We kinda nailed it against Brighton in the semis but Carlos' tinkering came back to bite us in the final. 

 

As for now, we are having more injuries than we did under Sturrock due to various factors such as a lot of games in a shortened season and a poorer quality pitch so a fairly big squad is necessary.

I do think Thompson is managing to rotate in the right way and the players currently seem to accept this, be on board with it and are clearly playing for him.

Long may it continue. 

[mcmigo]

Who is the third keeper with the tash? Don’t remember him at all! 

[Inspector Lestrade]

34 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

Who is the third keeper with the tash? Don’t remember him at all! 

 

Is it Cox? 

[paulrs]

44 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

Who is the third keeper with the tash? Don’t remember him at all! 

Iain Hesford.

 

Was in goal for Hull when Hirsty scored 4

[paulrs]

6 hours ago, EXCALIBUR said:

2 of best Away kits we've had.

I think I had all three of those kits plus the tracksuit and one of the goalie tops. Quite the style icon I was around Chapeltown you know. 

[paulrs]

I was thinking after the transfer window debacle actually that Wednesdays squad is actually very big - you could make three elevens with players who’ve had first team experience.

 

The issue though of course is the quality and the balance. We have very few top Championship players and everyone can see we’re overloaded with centre backs and midfielders but missing a left back and a striker. 
 

Still, the depth we have might turn out to be a real asset with the way the fixture schedule is. 

[mcmigo]

2 minutes ago, paulrs said:

I was thinking after the transfer window debacle actually that Wednesdays squad is actually very big - you could make three elevens with players who’ve had first team experience.

 

The issue though of course is the quality and the balance. We have very few top Championship players and everyone can see we’re overloaded with centre backs and midfielders but missing a left back and a striker. 
 

Still, the depth we have might turn out to be a real asset with the way the fixture schedule is. 

Biggest problem with the squad , which has been the case for several years, is the fitness and injury issues many have.  We need so many centre backs because of this.  Dunkley, Van Aken, Hutchinson, Lees, Borner have all had long spells out injured.  Our one centre back Iorfa who was pretty good fitness wise is now out for the season.  

[Bluewings]

6 hours ago, the mighty wednesday said:

My uncle played for Portsmouth. He signed for them from Chesterfield for £20,000

Who was your Uncle? was he part of the Portsmouth team that won the title in the 50s?

[gurujuan]

1 hour ago, paulrs said:

I was thinking after the transfer window debacle actually that Wednesdays squad is actually very big - you could make three elevens with players who’ve had first team experience.

 

The issue though of course is the quality and the balance. We have very few top Championship players and everyone can see we’re overloaded with centre backs and midfielders but missing a left back and a striker. 
 

Still, the depth we have might turn out to be a real asset with the way the fixture schedule is. 

The size of the current squad has probably been exaggerated by fringe players getting game time due to Covid, and the clubs attitude to cup competitions 

[gurujuan]

1 hour ago, mcmigo said:

Biggest problem with the squad , which has been the case for several years, is the fitness and injury issues many have.  We need so many centre backs because of this.  Dunkley, Van Aken, Hutchinson, Lees, Borner have all had long spells out injured.  Our one centre back Iorfa who was pretty good fitness wise is now out for the season.  

Almost Liverpoolesque

[Gob_Bluth]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

Almost Liverpoolesque

 

Jesus christ mate, you can't say that about Liverpool

 

No one has it worse than them, nobody!!!!!!

[mcmigo]

7 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Almost Liverpoolesque

Indeed.

 

Again one of those massive challenges of this season - the season ending injury to our best player (Iorfa).  If we stay up this season given everything that has happened it will be a true great escape.

 

 

[room0035]

I would say 22 players max with a few from the development squad as and when needed.

 

2 keepers, 8 defenders, 8 midfielders and 4 strikers. virtually 2 for each position, with a few players such as palmer who can play in s few positions.

 

We currently have a first team squad of 28 and 6 youngster who have had a game or sat on the bench. of these 28 players 15 players have so far have not made 10 starts (including Green and hutch so call it 13) so without Hutch and Green nearly half the first team squad have not made 10 starts out of about 30 games league and cup. it suggest we are carrying too many players. We have weaknesses in some areas such as left back and strikers but too many centre backs, keepers, central midfielders of the same type. 

[CircleSeven]

Injuries in football are obviously not a new thing but given how much the game has changed away from crunching tackles and real physical battles, coupled with advances in training and medical techniques you would think things would be better than they are. It’s the injuries that drive the need for a big squad I guess. Wasn’t it Carlos who talked about two players minimum for each position? Even than doesn’t seem enough in certain positions and really players who can fulfil a number of rolls has got to be what you aspire to, to keep squad numbers under control. Imagine though a world without injuries? We’d have half a dozen centre backs sat around at every game! At least with the injuries we don’t look quite as silly for signing so many!

[gurujuan]

11 minutes ago, room0035 said:

I would say 22 players max with a few from the development squad as and when needed.

 

2 keepers, 8 defenders, 8 midfielders and 4 strikers. virtually 2 for each position, with a few players such as palmer who can play in s few positions.

 

We currently have a first team squad of 28 and 6 youngster who have had a game or sat on the bench. of these 28 players 15 players have so far have not made 10 starts (including Green and hutch so call it 13) so without Hutch and Green nearly half the first team squad have not made 10 starts out of about 30 games league and cup. it suggest we are carrying too many players. We have weaknesses in some areas such as left back and strikers but too many centre backs, keepers, central midfielders of the same type. 

Probably 25-26 is the average, though some managers prefer a smaller squad. My preference would be a slightly smaller squad, nearer the size you suggest, and a larger development group. It is, as you suggest, the balance of the squad that is wrong, and those imbalances are replicated in the development squad as well. We gave ourselves too much to do last summer, by releasing pretty much all our forwards from both squads, meaning we needed to recruit 7 or 8 strikers, over the 2 groups It was an impossible task, and our failure to address it has helped to undermine our whole season. The worrying thing is, we’ve failed to heed the warning signs, and are about to make the same mistake all over again Come the summer, we will have only two forwards under contract, Windass and Paterson, neither of whom I’d call strikers. It ridiculous succession planning

[room0035]

5 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Probably 25-26 is the average, though some managers prefer a smaller squad. My preference would be a slightly smaller squad, nearer the size you suggest, and a larger development group. It is, as you suggest, the balance of the squad that is wrong, and those imbalances are replicated in the development squad as well. We gave ourselves too much to do last summer, by releasing pretty much all our forwards from both squads, meaning we needed to recruit 7 or 8 strikers, over the 2 groups It was an impossible task, and our failure to address it has helped to undermine our whole season. The worrying thing is, we’ve failed to heed the warning signs, and are about to make the same mistake all over again Come the summer, we will have only two forwards under contract, Windass and Paterson, neither of whom I’d call strikers. It ridiculous succession planning

The very simple problem is the same problem we have through the whole club there is no forward planning with anything.

 

We have this season Urhoghide, Shaw and Now Penney all 3 good young players starting to get regular first team games, they would not be playing if the management did not think they were good enough, all 3 got 1 year deals and are out of contract this season end. We done value youth and since DC has been here we never have, the only youth player to get a longer deal than 2 years was Wildsmith and that's because there we other teams wanting him before he signed a 5 year deal but he signed pre DC when Gray was still manager. But again he and Dawson and are meant to be the future and Wildsmith will be out of contract next summer, as will Iorfa.

 

We stumble from season to season fighting fires hope that we will get promoted but building anything to achieve promotion.

 

The only player in the last 6 months of their deals should be retiring or players you don't want but every season we have this same problem and ultimately it could cost us our place in the championship this season along with the really poor recruitment or lack their of.

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, room0035 said:

The very simple problem is the same problem we have through the whole club there is no forward planning with anything.

 

We have this season Urhoghide, Shaw and Now Penney all 3 good young players starting to get regular first team games, they would not be playing if the management did not think they were good enough, all 3 got 1 year deals and are out of contract this season end. We done value youth and since DC has been here we never have, the only youth player to get a longer deal than 2 years was Wildsmith and that's because there we other teams wanting him before he signed a 5 year deal but he signed pre DC when Gray was still manager. But again he and Dawson and are meant to be the future and Wildsmith will be out of contract next summer, as will Iorfa.

 

We stumble from season to season fighting fires hope that we will get promoted but building anything to achieve promotion.

 

The only player in the last 6 months of their deals should be retiring or players you don't want but every season we have this same problem and ultimately it could cost us our place in the championship this season along with the really poor recruitment or lack their of.

Absolutely, and it’s why the future will remain bleak, whether or not we avoid the drop.