You could drive a bus through there

[General_Grievous]

4 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

This game showed why we are conceding so many goals. Look at the goals from yesterday.

Goal 1Palmer has been caught upfield. But no-one has slotted in to cover for him.

Conway runs unhindered. No-one puts in a challenge. He slips it to Dack.

When Dack shoots (above) we are wide open on both flanks. Thormiley has come inside leaving Graham free and Palmer isn’t exactly busting a gut to get back. Dack shoots, Graham scores.

Goal 2

There’s no pressure on the player with the ball

There’s a huge gap in front of our back 4. Isn’t it Pelupessy’s job to plug that hole?

There’s a huge gap behind Palmer who’s been caught upfield again

There’s a huge gap behind Thorniley so both full backs are so far out of position that it’s 3 against 2. A flat back 2!

Graham runs in behind one full-back and passes it to Dack who’s behind the other full-back. Easy goal.

Goal 3

Dack runs at goal with nobody near him and a huge space in front of him because the centre-halves look like they’re getting out of the way

Palmer has been caught upfield (sound familiar) so there’s a huge gap in the right-back slot.

By the time Dack has his shot, Palmer is getting close to Graham but he carries on sauntering so Graham is miles from him by the time he scores.

Goal 4OMG look at that hole in front of the back 4.

Moments later there’s still a huge hole. The player on the ball has no-one within 10 yards of him. But at least this time Palmer is in the right-back spot and is close enough to mark GrahamNot any more! Dack slips it to Graham who is completely unmarked.

Issues:

Huge spaces behind the full-backs. Palmer needs to look at his contribution to all 4 goals. It’s one thing to be caught upfield, it will happen to all full-backs. But it’s another to have no desire to get back in position. It’s like he just doesn’t care. I love Thorniley but he’s not a full-back. He has a tendency to go back to his centre-half position and leave a space where the left back should be. But then neither full-back got any help from those in front of them.

Huge spaces in front of the back 4. I’ve always defended Pelupessy; he might be limited but he does get about and chase down balls. But oh dear this really shows that he’s actually offering no cover to those behind him. But it’s not down to one man. With Fletch up front we still have 5 people who should be making a wall in front of the back 4

No pressure on the man with the ball. As above. That should be what Pelupessy is doing but also what should be happening as a midfield unit.

The obvious scapegoats here are Palmer (and Thorniley) and Pelupessy (and Bannan) but really the problems are all about shape and formation. This seems to be the opposite of a well-coached side. There seems to be no evidence that Jos ever says ‘If he goes there, you have to go there’. Either that or the players just can’t be xxsed to help each other out.

It’s as if Jos thinks we are playing a high-pressing game. He throws bodies forward to chase the ball but none of them get anywhere near it and just get by-passed leaving no cover for the defence. A high press without anyone actually doing any pressing.

Tactically this has to be the least organised side I've ever seen. I don't think Jos has a clue.

TLDR

[myHero]

13 minutes ago, Ash77 said:

If 1 fb is upfield the other should not be as advanced.

 

There should not be big gaps between cb's and fb's but the captain should try and address this as well as the manager.

 

Palmer is a failed cm come failed rb, he has no sense of danger, awareness or desire which is shame because he could have been a decent player imo.

 

All the defence and jp were poor but we were also below par with the ball.

 

We never get simple low crosses in for easy chances due to players cutting inside on stronger foots, like reach playing on the right/matias on left etc

 

Our fb's are not capable of getting the crosses in to make up for the midfielders/forwards.

 

We play too narrow going forward but too wide and open when defending!

New manager needed.

 

 

Its almost as if they think they are still playing the back five with wing backs system, but without the extra centre half.

 

Jos does not seem to have explained to them with 4-2-3-1 the full backs and defensive midfielders should operate together and more cautiously.

 

 

Gay Megson, will sort it

 

 

[myHero]

There was pressure on the ball for goal two. It was Bannan, who did'nt make the challenge on the half way line. He's not a defensive midfielder and so we should not be surprised when this happens?

 

Pellupessy is covering the other side of the field as he knows Palmer has been asked to push forward. (As we have no width)

 

Thorniley should have been alert to what was going on, but now its too late and he's out of position.

 

I thought the instructions for full back in a back four were simple? Stay goal side.

 

Gary Megson will sort this out given the chance.

 

[myHero]

4 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

This game showed why we are conceding so many goals. Look at the goals from yesterday.

Goal 1Palmer has been caught upfield. But no-one has slotted in to cover for him.

Conway runs unhindered. No-one puts in a challenge. He slips it to Dack.

When Dack shoots (above) we are wide open on both flanks. Thormiley has come inside leaving Graham free and Palmer isn’t exactly busting a gut to get back. Dack shoots, Graham scores.

Goal 2

There’s no pressure on the player with the ball

There’s a huge gap in front of our back 4. Isn’t it Pelupessy’s job to plug that hole?

There’s a huge gap behind Palmer who’s been caught upfield again

There’s a huge gap behind Thorniley so both full backs are so far out of position that it’s 3 against 2. A flat back 2!

Graham runs in behind one full-back and passes it to Dack who’s behind the other full-back. Easy goal.

Goal 3

Dack runs at goal with nobody near him and a huge space in front of him because the centre-halves look like they’re getting out of the way

Palmer has been caught upfield (sound familiar) so there’s a huge gap in the right-back slot.

By the time Dack has his shot, Palmer is getting close to Graham but he carries on sauntering so Graham is miles from him by the time he scores.

Goal 4OMG look at that hole in front of the back 4.

Moments later there’s still a huge hole. The player on the ball has no-one within 10 yards of him. But at least this time Palmer is in the right-back spot and is close enough to mark GrahamNot any more! Dack slips it to Graham who is completely unmarked.

Issues:

Huge spaces behind the full-backs. Palmer needs to look at his contribution to all 4 goals. It’s one thing to be caught upfield, it will happen to all full-backs. But it’s another to have no desire to get back in position. It’s like he just doesn’t care. I love Thorniley but he’s not a full-back. He has a tendency to go back to his centre-half position and leave a space where the left back should be. But then neither full-back got any help from those in front of them.

Huge spaces in front of the back 4. I’ve always defended Pelupessy; he might be limited but he does get about and chase down balls. But oh dear this really shows that he’s actually offering no cover to those behind him. But it’s not down to one man. With Fletch up front we still have 5 people who should be making a wall in front of the back 4

No pressure on the man with the ball. As above. That should be what Pelupessy is doing but also what should be happening as a midfield unit.

The obvious scapegoats here are Palmer (and Thorniley) and Pelupessy (and Bannan) but really the problems are all about shape and formation. This seems to be the opposite of a well-coached side. There seems to be no evidence that Jos ever says ‘If he goes there, you have to go there’. Either that or the players just can’t be xxsed to help each other out.

It’s as if Jos thinks we are playing a high-pressing game. He throws bodies forward to chase the ball but none of them get anywhere near it and just get by-passed leaving no cover for the defence. A high press without anyone actually doing any pressing.

Tactically this has to be the least organised side I've ever seen. I don't think Jos has a clue.

 

A couple of points on goal number one.

 

- Firstly you can see Pellupessy, number 8 (There is no wonder Chris Waddle is pissed off) is covering for Palmer, who has gone AWOL, in your screen shot.

- Secondly, the problems started much earlier. You can see the Blackburn move starts with Jos' default tactic of ten men behind the ball for the opening ten minutes game plan. The Blackburn centre back and full back had all the time in the world to get the ball into position for this "Free kick" from open play which Wednesday did not recover from.

 

Gary Megson will sort this out given the chance.

 

 

 

 

 

[davetherivelinowl]

Proper coaching/tactics could solve all of this. Instead  the full backs are left to cover all of the flanks and the two midfielders have to cover all the midfield. All 4 of them are left to their own devices as if the 4 players in front of them don't have a role. 

 

It's easy to say Megson would sort this out. You'd like to think that ANYONE who earns a living as a football manager would.

[Ian_D]

Thread would be one page without all this quoting going off

[jonesy87shef]

Just wanted to say what an excellent post by the @davetherivelinowl. Spot on analysis.

[Guest Bulgaria]

12 hours ago, S72 Owl said:

Very good post. 

This happens most matches too.

Why can’t Jos see this? Or why can’t he do anything about it?

 

He cant see it because he is sat in his dugout looking at retirement cottages in Holland.

 

Its a complete shambles, and quite frankly a disgrace this is going on.  And what is Bully doing about it.... the chap who said training regimes under Carlos were great!!!

 

Lets all riot!!!    I am back in the UK next week and from Friday i am free for 5 days......... whos in?   Ive got lots of spare shoes at me dads i can bring.

[crookesowl]

Like having our very own Shearer and Dixon on Owlstalk 

[sternlad]

Aye, that picture of the third goal...playground defending at primary school. Every one of our on field “defenders” is looking at the man with the ball, they have no clue who’s running in behind at all...oh dear

[Buddy Repperton]

14 hours ago, mogbad said:

Palmer not busting a gut to get back shocker.

Said this before earlier in the season, he's not good enough for this level, but some don't like him being criticised on here.

Problem's, that only Baker as an alternative & he's not up to it either (not his fault).

Any manager with half a brain can see this (including ours, probably) & this, plus the weakest midfield, is why we're leaking goals.

Can't see it changing anytime soon either

[casbahowl]

Inconceivable that anyone can defend Palmer..... awful, awful player!

[Hougoumont]

Quote;

"Palmer isn't exactly busting a gut to get back"

There can't be a single Wednesday fan that is unaware of Palmer's shortcomings...he's been like it since day one. What I'd like to know is why a succession of managers have tolerated this and failed to kick the idle tvvat out of the club.

[shandypants]

3 minutes ago, Hougoumont said:

Quote;

"Palmer isn't exactly busting a gut to get back"

There can't be a single Wednesday fan that is unaware of Palmer's shortcomings...he's been like it since day one. What I'd like to know is why a succession of managers have tolerated this and failed to kick the idle tvvat out of the club.

Very rough on Palmer that. He is expected to defend and provide all of the width on the right. He was getting forward. He could have just sat in like Thorniley (who by his centre-half instincts will naturally do) and defended his right channel and wing. At least Palmer was having a go at providing width.

 

Also, you pick out Palmer but where are Bannan, Reach and Mattias for the goals? Behind the play that’s where. 

 

Our problems don’t stem from Palmer; they stem from flawed tactics and confusing formations. 

[Hougoumont]

13 minutes ago, shandypants said:

Very rough on Palmer that. He is expected to defend and provide all of the width on the right. He was getting forward. He could have just sat in like Thorniley (who by his centre-half instincts will naturally do) and defended his right channel and wing. At least Palmer was having a go at providing width.

 

Also, you pick out Palmer but where are Bannan, Reach and Mattias for the goals? Behind the play that’s where. 

 

Our problems don’t stem from Palmer; they stem from flawed tactics and confusing formations. 

It may be rough on him Shady, but the simple truth is that he has been slow/reluctant to get back ever since he was first converted to RB from his original midfield position. Any team with upwardly mobile ambitions cannot carry a player like that in defence. As for Bannan, Reach and Matias, all of them can be out tackled by a big girl...and all of them looked like they were only going through the motions at Blackburn. JL's flawed tactics and confusing...and ever changing...formations have merely magnified the problems that were there before he came. I still believe we have a squad capable of winning games in this division IF we get a manager in who plays them in their most comfortable positions and motivates them suitably. It's obvious to a blind man that they are not a happy bunch at the moment. 

[southportdc]

You could drive a bus through any defence if you're psychotic enough.

[York_Owl]

11 minutes ago, southportdc said:

You could drive a bus through any defence if you're psychotic enough.

On the plus side, with our defence, there'd be no casualties.

[York_Owl]

3 hours ago, Buddy Repperton said:

Said this before earlier in the season, he's not good enough for this level, but some don't like him being criticised on here.

Problem's, that only Baker as an alternative & he's not up to it either (not his fault).

Any manager with half a brain can see this (including ours, probably) & this, plus the weakest midfield, is why we're leaking goals.

Can't see it changing anytime soon either

I'd play Hutchinson at right back and, if not at right back, Centre Mid. Either way he could fix one of those problems.

[Guest Grez Bez]

12 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

I'd play Hutchinson at right back and, if not at right back, Centre Mid. Either way he could fix one of those problems.

 

I think Hutch would make a great full back but he'd be wasted there instead of CDM

[SouthernOwl24]

Fantastic OP.

 

Shows how poor the tactics are - but also shows how bad the players desire to win the ball back/ mark their man/ get goal side is. 

 

I cannot remember such a lack of desire throughout a team and it starts with Jos sitting on the bench all game like hes wasted his weekend. Im not asking for him to come to touchline to scream and shout but there is no tactic tinkering or advice passed on to players that we see. Dack ruined our defence yet we carry on playing the same way?? Its disgusting. 

 

We have a good enough team and a team way more experienced to deal with these situations better but they are not bothered. Starts with Jos and his evident lack of desire also. 

 

If I was manager I would honestly make the players watch it back and fine each time they are out of position - I would then put this to reduced travel costs for fans who have to watch this non league standard garbage. Seriously shows we need to go back to basics and learn what a formation is. 

 

I can take a losing but I cannot accept a complete lack of effort/ preparation/ desire.