room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Every where I look at the moment people talk about how much money DC has put into the club be it £100-150m. I like others have reviewed the accounts and I cannot honestly see these figures anywhere. DC bought the club for £32m + a new scoreboard. This is the price he paid for a club in the Championship with very little debt. This is not investment so cannot be classed as money into the club. This is the price of the goods he bought not The investment into it. The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in. Money put in by DC for the last 2 years about £1m a season for advertising and loan notes/long term creditors of £38m. So in 3 years the fans have put in £60m + the chairman has put in £40m+, should we reach the premier league will the split of the riches be the same 60% to the fans the balance to DC or will it be different. That's for you to decide. If someone has a differ view please share but also back it up with where is this £100-150 m in the club's statutory accounts as if it exists it should be in them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Just now, room0035 said: should we reach the premier league will the split of the riches be the same 60% to the fans the balance to DC or will it be different. That's for you to decide. Eh? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Eh? I was trying to make t he point but we don't get a split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, room0035 said: Every where I look at the moment people talk about how much money DC has put into the club be it £100-150m. I like others have reviewed the accounts and I cannot honestly see these figures anywhere. DC bought the club for £32m + a new scoreboard. This is the price he paid for a club in the Championship with very little debt. This is not investment so cannot be classed as money into the club. This is the price of the goods he bought not The investment into it. The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in. Money put in by DC for the last 2 years about £1m a season for advertising and loan notes/long term creditors of £38m. So in 3 years the fans have put in £60m + the chairman has put in £40m+, should we reach the premier league will the split of the riches be the same 60% to the fans the balance to DC or will it be different. That's for you to decide. If someone has a differ view please share but also back it up with where is this £100-150 m in the club's statutory accounts as if it exists it should be in them. "The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in." You actually believe that the £20 million turnover has been fans money only ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helmut_rooster Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: "The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in." You actually believe that the £20 million turnover has been fans money only ? Just how many gnomes have we sold in that time to make those numbers up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scarlett Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 More to the point he is the major shareholder of the company that owns the club and the land it stands on. How much would it be worth to a supermarket Chain or housing developer to purchase the land. That is how he might recoup his investment. A frightening prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: "The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in." You actually believe that the £20 million turnover has been fans money only ? Yes because pre DC and ticket price hikes turnover was £14m then prices increase 50% and turnover increase to £20m even basic maths can see if ticket prices go up 50% you would expect turnover to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, room0035 said: Every where I look at the moment people talk about how much money DC has put into the club be it £100-150m. I like others have reviewed the accounts and I cannot honestly see these figures anywhere. DC bought the club for £32m + a new scoreboard. This is the price he paid for a club in the Championship with very little debt. This is not investment so cannot be classed as money into the club. This is the price of the goods he bought not The investment into it. The fans pay for merchandise and tickets each year and the turnover figure for the last 3 years has been £20m for each year, again this is not DC putting money in this is us the fans putting money in. Money put in by DC for the last 2 years about £1m a season for advertising and loan notes/long term creditors of £38m. So in 3 years the fans have put in £60m + the chairman has put in £40m+, should we reach the premier league will the split of the riches be the same 60% to the fans the balance to DC or will it be different. That's for you to decide. If someone has a differ view please share but also back it up with where is this £100-150 m in the club's statutory accounts as if it exists it should be in them. I'm guessing the players wouldn't like that or were you talking about divvying up the last 5 % after they and their agents have had first dibs? Mind you they way things are these days we'd probably be sharing a debt after we'd blown the lot and more on insane wages and fees that we couldn't afford in spite of the TV money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Sheffield Wednesday: Play to win Sheffield Wednesday announced their results for 2016/17, which revealed that they made a loss of nearly £21 million in the season, as the club invested heavily in a promotion push, which faltered in the playoffs against Huddersfield. Since then there’s been a debate on social media in relation to the present level of financial distress experienced by the club, with some suggesting that administration is feasible, so we’ve taken a look. Income Not all clubs have announced their results for 2016/17 yet. In the previous season the average for a Championship club was £22.9 million, we expect this to be higher in 2017/18. Like all clubs Wednesday earn their income from three sources, matchday, broadcasting and commercial/sponsorship. The good news for Wednesday is that matchday income rose by 10% in 2017. Attendances averaged 26,831, an increase of over 4,000 in the previous season, when the club made the playoff finals. This means that Wednesday are at the top end of clubs in the division for this income source, slightly behind Villa and Brighton, but more than double the amounts earned by smaller clubs in the division. Despite an indifferent season on the pitch for 2017/18, the club is still averaging over 26,000 in 2017/18. The bad news is that matchday income is dwarfed by parachute payments given to clubs who have been recently demoted from the Premier League. Whilst it brought in over 40% of Wednesday’s income, Norwich, Newcastle and Villa each earned over £40 million in parachute payments, which gave them an advantage in the transfer/player markets. Broadcast income was down 7%. This was partly due to Wednesday only getting as far as the playoff semi-final, compared to the previous season when they made it to Wembley, which was worth a couple of million to the club. The decrease was cushioned partially by a new Premier League (PL) TV deal that came into existence in 2016/17, and under the terms of a deal with the Football League (EFL) the money given to EFL clubs is a guaranteed percentage of PL TV revenues. She Wednesday’s commercial income rose 17% to £6.6 million. This has provoked some bitching from fans of other clubs, who have queried the nature of some of the commercial deals, as some were struck with the club owners’ the Chansiri family. The value of these transactions, at £1.2 million, does not seem particularly excessive, especially when compared to the likes of Leicester City, who in 2013/14 mysteriously tripled their commercial income after the involvement (ironically) of former Sheffield Wednesday Chairman Sir Dave Richards in obtaining some new sponsorship deals in the Far East. Leicester have just agreed to pay a £3.1 million fine in relation to their 2013/14 accounts, which had the EFL’s W-T-F-Ometer clicking in the red zone for the past few years. Costs The main costs at a football club are player related, wages and transfer fee amortisation. Wednesday invested significantly in both of these in 2017/18. Wages increased by 52% in 2016/17, to £29.1 million. This was due to signing some Premier League players on loan, such as Jordan Rhodes and Callum McManaman the free transfer acquisition of Steven Fletcher, on an alleged £30,000 a week, and new a new contract for top scorer Forestieri. Amortisation is how clubs deal with transfer fees in the profit and loss account. When a player signs his contract cost is spread over the life of the contract. Therefore, when Adam Reach signed from Middlesbrough for about £5 million on a three year deal, this works out at about £1.67 million as an amortisation cost each year. Wednesday spent over £24 million on players in 2015/16 and 2016/17, so the amortisation charge jumped accordingly. Putting these two costs together highlights how much Wednesday ‘went for it’ in 2016/17, as for every £100 of income generated, there was a £152 cost in terms of wages and amortisation. The problem that this gives Wednesday is that many of the players involved will be on multi-year contracts, and therefore it will be a challenge to reduce such costs. Losses Losses are income less costs. Last season this was £20.7 million, up from £9.7 million the previous season. This leads to two key questions (a) are such losses sustainable, and (b) what are the Financial Fair Play (FFP) consequences. The owner of Wednesday, Dejphon Chansiri family, is estimated to be worth at least £700 million, so the money is there, assuming he wants to keep spending it. In terms of FFP, the present incarnation (called Profitability and Sustainability) limits clubs to a loss of £39 million over three seasons. Looking at Wednesday’s recent accounts, the club has lost money every year, but the total for the last three years comes to £34.3 million. Some costs, such as infrastructure, academy and community schemes, are excluded from the FFP calculations. A conservative estimate of these would be about £8 million, so Wednesday’s FFP losses are probably about £26 million over the last three years. If this is the case, whilst Wednesday don’t have a huge amount of wiggle room for 2017/18, the club should satisfy FFP this season. The manager will however be unable to spend a huge amount in the transfer market in summer 2018. Player trading Wednesday, as already mentioned, have spent significant sums by their standards in the last two seasons. There’s no doubt Chansiri has backed managers in the transfer market, and that has contributed towards two appearances in the playoffs. The lack of success in the current season is of greater concern, and there will be less opportunity to sign players in the forthcoming transfer window unless they are funded by player disposals. It looks as if player contracts contain substantial bonuses should the club be promoted, with player bonuses of £7.5 million and payments to former owners of over £1 million. Compared to the £100 million of TV money, this is relatively insignificant. Debt Chansiri has put substantial sums into the club, and at the end of the financial year was owed about £38 million in loans on top of £45 million invested in shares. His benevolence appears at present to be unconditional, so Wednesday fans should not worry about the owner wanting to sell up or stop supporting the club financially. Summary Wednesday are in a slightly awkward position, having spent heavily in the last couple of seasons on player recruitment and not being rewarded by promotion. At the same time, rumours of their impending financial implosion appear to be vastly overstated. Data Set Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Captain Scarlett said: More to the point he is the major shareholder of the company that owns the club and the land it stands on. How much would it be worth to a supermarket Chain or housing developer to purchase the land. That is how he might recoup his investment. A frightening prospect. Nah the training ground is owned by the council but on a 1000 year lease so we could sell that, yes the stadium could be but it's not exactly a London borough it's Hillsbough one of the most run down areas around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Quote This is the price of the goods he bought not The investment into it. When you buy your merchandise its the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, room0035 said: Yes because pre DC and ticket price hikes turnover was £14m then prices increase 50% and turnover increase to £20m even basic maths can see if ticket prices go up 50% you would expect turnover to do the same. WOW !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birley Owl 1867 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Captain Scarlett said: More to the point he is the major shareholder of the company that owns the club and the land it stands on. How much would it be worth to a supermarket Chain or housing developer to purchase the land. That is how he might recoup his investment. A frightening prospect. It won't be worth much. Not exactly the French riviera is it the Don. It's also susceptible to flooding so a housing developer won't be too interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Good figures Neil a shame like most financial it's always in the past, I note Brighton and Wigan on there, if you have a report anywhere showing our comparison for all the figures to the other clubs it would an interesting read. It shows how much tv accounts for turnover so that will also be down this year's as we have barely been on sky in the last 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GY-owl.4 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, room0035 said: Good figures Neil a shame like most financial it's always in the past, I note Brighton and Wigan on there, if you have a report anywhere showing our comparison for all the figures to the other clubs it would an interesting read. It shows how much tv accounts for turnover so that will also be down this year's as we have barely been on sky in the last 6 months. so weve put in only 42% of the £60M you talk of. about £25M init. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I'd like to see how that 42% is split IE: Season Tickets Catering Hospitality etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 ticket sales will be down this year though for sure, thats a worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ash76 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 OP is an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 31 minutes ago, room0035 said: Nah the training ground is owned by the council but on a 1000 year lease so we could sell that, yes the stadium could be but it's not exactly a London borough it's Hillsbough one of the most run down areas around. Has this changed since Allen was at the club and trying to sell it? If not Wednesday have a circa 50 year reversion on the lease - i.e. 50 years left to run, which means they can not sell the leasehold to another developer unless they get an extension beyond 100 yrs from the landlord (council) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Just now, Ash76 said: OP is an idiot Normally I'd delete this comment but I'm gonna ask you instead to refrain from personal attacks like this It adds zero to the site Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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