The only way is S6 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, morley said: I think that your valuation of the assets ( at cost in the accounts) in a fire fire sale is as optimistic as your view of the future. I am not doubting DC's commitment at the moment but in the words of Bryan Ferry "nothing lasts for ever" Are you suggesting DC didn't keep the receipts for the scoreboard & the pitch? Echo & the Bunnymen also sang something similar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Costello 77 said: Selling the assets! You're getting yourself into a right knot in this thread...on an unrelated matter.. I had a mate once who cracked on he was a Stuntman...but I'll relate that tale another time. FFS. You can sell liquid assets but land and property is only worth what some one will pay for them. The intangible assets on the balance sheet are players contracts so unless we are able to sell them it is zero value and basically a book figure and not cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, morley said: Absolutely right. As a retired commercial banker that's just how I see it too. So what are his options then? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Just now, room0035 said: You can sell liquid assets but land and property is only worth what some one will pay for them. The intangible assets on the balance sheet are players contracts so unless we are able to sell them it is zero value and basically a book figure and not cash. Should have known better than to mix it with a commercial banker and qualified accountant..... I'm sorry. FFS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, morley said: He could decide that he's had enough and he's not spending any more and administration here we come. He'd be writing off his losses but at the same time he'd be limiting them too. 15 minutes ago, morley said: If he's a business man he may well go as no sensible business person keeps chucking good money after bad in the hope that something will change. He's had his best shot at the Premiership in the last couple of years and unless something changes with the clubs finances, or the rules governing them, we're in the mire for a long time to come. If however he likes a gamble than he may well keep chucking money in the hope of hitting the jackpot. 2 minutes ago, The only way is S6 said: So what are his options then? Genuine question. I think the options lie in there. We're entirely in his hands and unfortunately whilst I'm quite good at accounts and business practice I was always crap at mind reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, rickygoo said: One accounting way of looking at it - if I can recall my old training correctly - is that his investment so far is a sunk cost and irrelevant to the ongoing situation. What matters is what happens from now - and as you say chucking good money after bad can be inadvisable. He’ll want to look at the best way of getting out and cashing in what’s left. That will hopefully make administration/receivership a poor option. Presumably he is by far the biggest creditor and he’s keeping HMRC sweet so it will be totally down to him. So what are his options then? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: Selling the assets! You're getting yourself into a right knot in this thread...on an unrelated matter.. I had a mate once who cracked on he was a Stuntman...but I'll relate that tale another time. FFS. Look I started by saying DC has not put in £100-150m through hook or crook the figures for the split of turnover are gate receipts and merchandise both last I look paid for by the fans and tv money none of this is from DC. Yes he has bought a the clu as an investment and when he sells us he should get that back and yes he is keeping us a float at the moment due to our wage bill being greater than our income not including all the other costs. I never said he was a bad man, or a bad business man well if the Owls are his only example then who knows, but what seems to happen on here is no one cares what you post as long as someone can find something to have a go at you personally. Most of the people posting on here haven't even read what I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, room0035 said: You can sell liquid assets but land and property is only worth what some one will pay for them. The intangible assets on the balance sheet are players contracts so unless we are able to sell them it is zero value and basically a book figure and not cash. The value of Hillsborough is ratified at £25 mill. The training ground is a bit uncertain...the players in contract..maybe the same. So we're at the £50 mill mark... there's no need for your "accountants" technical speak..he owns these assets..and he can sell them. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: Should have known better than to mix it with a commercial banker and qualified accountant..... I'm sorry. FFS. That's sound like the start of a bad joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, room0035 said: Look I started by saying DC has not put in £100-150m through hook or crook the figures for the split of turnover are gate receipts and merchandise both last I look paid for by the fans and tv money none of this is from DC. Yes he has bought a the clu as an investment and when he sells us he should get that back and yes he is keeping us a float at the moment due to our wage bill being greater than our income not including all the other costs. I never said he was a bad man, or a bad business man well if the Owls are his only example then who knows, but what seems to happen on here is no one cares what you post as long as someone can find something to have a go at you personally. Most of the people posting on here haven't even read what I posted. turnover reflects income. You're forgetting to add the £20m or so a season that we're losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, morley said: I think the options lie in there. We're entirely in his hands and unfortunately whilst I'm quite good at accounts and business practice I was always crap at mind reading. With respect, that's a bit of a cop out. I'm not asking you to mind read; just offer some options that DC might choose, based on your experience in this field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, The only way is S6 said: So what are his options then? Genuine question. Stay as owner and keep funding the losses in the hope his investment will pay off, try and sell or cut his ongoing losses by biting the bullet and taking an insolvency route I guess. Any business expertise I have comes largely from qualifying as a Chartered Accountant nearly 30 years ago but I packed it in in 1992 so I am out of practice - literally. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Costello 77 said: The value of Hillsborough is ratified at £25 mill. The training ground is a bit uncertain...the players in contract..maybe the same. So we're at the £50 mill mark... there's no need for your "accountants" technical speak..he owns these assets..and he can sell them. FFS. But what players are the £25m showing on the balance sheet. We have three players we could sell Reach cost is £5m, Fessi £3m and Hooper £3m, Lees, Lee, Westwood, Bannan were all free agents so who are the other £14m on the balance sheet Abdi£4m, Jones £1m ,Can Aken £4m. I cannot see the club making an asset of future players contracts they have to pay out so what I am saying in a long winded way is there is not £25m of player assets in the balance in their cake at cost. Might we get £35m if we sold Fessi, Reach and Hooper in today's market very likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, morley said: turnover reflects income. You're forgetting to add the £20m or so a season that we're losing. But if DC put the money in it has to show somewhere hence the £38m of long term debt or money he is putting in. This figure does not read £150m of long term debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Everyone's a bloody chartered accountant on here! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Just now, The only way is S6 said: With respect, that's a bit of a cop out. I'm not asking you to mind read; just offer some options that DC might choose, based on your experience in this field. OK. The sensible option would be to put us into administration right now and recoup what he can, which wouldn't be much the way football administrations work, but would stop him losing anymore. I don't know how sensible DC is or how much more he is willing to spend and that's the reason that I can't tell you what to expect next. Football is a law unto itself and football people have to have a screw loose to get involved in the first place. If our debts were owed to any bank then they would pull the plug, but they're not so what happens next is all down to DC. If anyone sees his spending on SWFC as an "investment" they're crackers because the only way for him to have any chance of getting his money back is to get to the Premier League and then sell up, and we're a million miles off doing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Past Member Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, room0035 said: But what players are the £25m showing on the balance sheet. We have three players we could sell Reach cost is £5m, Fessi £3m and Hooper £3m, Lees, Lee, Westwood, Bannan were all free agents so who are the other £14m on the balance sheet Abdi£4m, Jones £1m ,Can Aken £4m. I cannot see the club making an asset of future players contracts they have to pay out so what I am saying in a long winded way is there is not £25m of player assets in the balance in their cake at cost. Might we get £35m if we sold Fessi, Reach and Hooper in today's market very likely Why wound we get £3 mill for Hooper? We paid £3 mill 3 years ago, he's now 30, very injury probe & scores in patches. Decent player, who teams would want, but not for a 7 digit fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morley Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, room0035 said: But if DC put the money in it has to show somewhere hence the £38m of long term debt or money he is putting in. This figure does not read £150m of long term debt. a) that figure is as at May last year and b) it doesn't include whatever he paid to acquire the shares, which is still money that he has chucked at the club even though we see no direct benefit from it. As I said, by now he must be pretty near £100 he's chucked in. I'm not trying to justify any more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 For me what I would we are focked with FFP as we have broke it you only have to see the money scheme this season such as 1867 club for that. Looven, Wallace, Nuihu, Pudil all out of contract this season get rid off all of them should save £40k a week as Pudil will be on a decent wage, that £2m saving already. Sell Reach, Fessi and Hooper our most saleable assets should fetch in £25m in today's market plus we could save another £50-60k a week with their wages that's another £3m saving. Try to thin the dead wood Matias, fletcher, abdi, Jones, Rhodes if we can get rid of some of these we could save a few million quid more. That £30m in or with savings. But getting rid of our best players others will need to step up, a few decent loans added to a decent free here and there and we should be competitive next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, SiJ said: Everyone's a bloody chartered accountant on here! I am certified and I know the irony in that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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