DC the "successful businessman" and the failing media

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Ronseal said:

What stars could he have 'cashed in'..theres no evidence anybody made a concrete offer for any of our players..nobody else would pay thrm what we are..not in this division

So you don't think if the chairman was fed up and wanted some money he spent back we couldnt have got 4 or 5 million for the likes of Bannan, Westwood, Lee, Lees, Hooper and Forestieri if he made it perfectly clear all were avalible. 

[Whatahoot]

So student owl has reported, at length, that he and others cannot prove DC's financial net worth. They are all guesses, stabs in the dark. It would take a qualified accountant, with inside knowledge of his affairs, to unravel his finances clearly. In Thailand generally,who knows what assets are taxed/ declared, on or off balance sheet items ?, his own companies operate in the "non quoted" company arena, which are a financial nightmare as far as accurate information is concerned. The business world in Thailand is not as heavily regulated as other countries.Tax matters are a grey area. Still I'm not saying DC and his companies operate in any way other than correct. We just do not have the information, which is student owls main point.

What we know for fact is that DC paid MM for the club, paid off former directors and bank loans, leaving us debt free and removed the legal charge over the land owned by the club. up to Y/E 2015.We do not know how the club has been financed since then. DC is well connected via his family, but does not have the financial strength (imo)to keep throwing money at it and we may well see player sales come January, if we are still off the pace.If that includes Doyen players like Joao,Mathias and who knows who, then don't forget Doyen will want their share back first, before any money gets reinvested into the squad. Financially imo, things have tightened of late and it may not all be to do with FFP.

[Nick the Owl]

To summarise, people who aren't multi-millionaire businessman write their opinions on what they expect a mutli-millionaire businessman to be like and how they expect them to be acting, and as this doesn't tally with their perception there's something clearly amiss.

 

You're right, he needs to bring his bank statements over for the next game and prove to the fans on the street exactly how his financial arrangements are set up, with whom, when and why, and I think the normal fan on the street will DEFINITELY understand it.

 

SHOW US THE MONEY

 

 

 

[londonowl]

2 minutes ago, Nick the Owl said:

To summarise, people who aren't multi-millionaire businessman write their opinions on what they expect a mutli-millionaire businessman to be like and how they expect them to be acting, and as this doesn't tally with their perception there's something clearly amiss.

 

You're right, he needs to bring his bank statements over for the next game and prove to the fans on the street exactly how his financial arrangements are set up, with whom, when and why, and I think the normal fan on the street will DEFINITELY understand it.

 

SHOW US THE MONEY

 

 

 

 

No. People who, for all you know, may well be multi-millionaire businessmen (though I think we can discount StudentOwl), are discussing the relative merits of an investor who arguably has money through none of his own doing.

[Bob]

8 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

Possibly both.

 

According to everything I can find, and believe me I have looked very very hard, certainly the money.

I think you could well be right. 

 

If he was extremely rich, he would not have needed to put ticket prices up so quickly, never mind upset local business men who were screwed with the box price increases. He has agreed exorbitant wages for aging players, which will bite the club if we want to off load any before their contracts end. Together with his obsession with Carlos, and I use the words carefully, he could end up with egg on his face.

[cookeh]

4 minutes ago, londonowl said:

 

No. People who, for all you know, may well be multi-millionaire businessmen (though I think we can discount StudentOwl), are discussing the relative merits of an investor who arguably has money through none of his own doing.

 

so.. unknown people are speculating based on unknowns about an unknown.

roger me.. just close the thread already :D

Edited October 23, 2017 by cookeh

[Nick the Owl]

1 minute ago, londonowl said:

 

No. People who, for all you know, may well be multi-millionaire businessmen (though I think we can discount StudentOwl), are discussing the relative merits of an investor who arguably has money through none of his own doing.

 

He has clearly benefited from his family ties to TUF, not surprising.

 

Arguably? There's no information available regard to his worth, or involvement in other businesses etc. That's normal for his part of the world, and  incredibly common for high net worth individuals to have opaque involvement in businesses, you'll find loads of millionaires who you can't simply google to discover their involvements in business (especially abroad).

 

How are you expecting to quantify his business achievements when we've already worked out the information isn't publicly available? Waste of time.

[debram]

8 minutes ago, Bob said:

I think you could well be right. 

 

If he was extremely rich, he would not have needed to put ticket prices up so quickly, never mind upset local business men who were screwed with the box price increases. He has agreed exorbitant wages for aging players, which will bite the club if we want to off load any before their contracts end. Together with his obsession with Carlos, and I use the words carefully, he could end up with egg on his face.

Given his lack of knowledge about the english leagues and ccs to a lesser degree I cant understand why he didnt employ an experienced adviser, one who knows swfc, howard wilkinson as a prime example, we would be in a better state of affairs if so

Edited October 23, 2017 by debram
Spelling

[londonowl]

12 minutes ago, Nick the Owl said:

 

He has clearly benefited from his family ties to TUF, not surprising.

 

Arguably? There's no information available regard to his worth, or involvement in other businesses etc. That's normal for his part of the world, and  incredibly common for high net worth individuals to have opaque involvement in businesses, you'll find loads of millionaires who you can't simply google to discover their involvements in business (especially abroad).

 

How are you expecting to quantify his business achievements when we've already worked out the information isn't publicly available? Waste of time.

 

There's a lot of information available but all that aside, the man's father was worth $300 million plus by the time DC was 20. How much business acumen do you think he will have needed to end up as a wealthy man? "Born 3-0 up and thinks he's scored a hat-trick" is the phrase that springs to mind. I'm not actually trying to knock the guy or even claim that he has no business knowledge. I'm just saying that the fact he has a few quid is no confirmation of the fact that he is a "successful businessman". Ask Donald Trump.

 

 

[sirlawrenceofmadden]

2 hours ago, prowl said:

I've read it. You have tried to make the case that DC isn't a Rockefeller and have done so on the basis that you can't find much about his businesses on the internet and that he is very hands on even to very small decisions.

 

You may well be right but on the other hand he has invested heavily in the club and playing staff. On the basis of 'the proof of the pudding..' I'll accept him as a benevolent owner of this club.

 

What we think about him does matter much anyway, he owns the club and can do pretty much what he wants with it. There's not much we can do about it. Protests, boycotts etc he can ignore and carry on as he wishes.

 

Personally I think he's been as good an owner as we could wish for.

I would have to agree with prowl and his summary on DC and the way the club is run. It is difficult to imagine why anyone would throw the amount of money DC has at the club without a plan and not have the financial clout to do so. We all know that football is not straight forward and nothing can be guarenteed (else Huddersfield would never have got promotion). One thing I do think is that DC wants us in the premier so he can use Wednesday as an promotional/advertising vehicle for TUG and other businesses. 

[McRightSide]

I'm not going into that because it's unfounded speculation

 

Posts a load of unfounded speculation.

[londonowl]

3 minutes ago, sirlawrenceofmadden said:

I would have to agree with prowl and his summary on DC and the way the club is run. It is difficult to imagine why anyone would throw the amount of money DC has at the club without a plan and not have the financial clout to do so. We all know that football is not straight forward and nothing can be guarenteed (else Huddersfield would never have got promotion). One thing I do think is that DC wants us in the premier so he can use Wednesday as an promotional/advertising vehicle for TUG and other businesses. 

 

And here we are, back to Thai Union. They are not involved with Sheffield Wednesday, in any way. They confirmed in 2015 that SWFC is a personal investment of DC and since then, a senior board member has come out and made a statement that they will not be investing in businesses which do not form part of their core operations when asked directly about an involvement with SWFC.

 

DC does not own, and is not part of Thai Union apart from the fact that he may have a very small "family" shareholding. This is not speculation.

 

DC wants us in the Premier League for family name kudos and to make a few quid. 

 

What I still don't understand is that we have all spent many a year mocking the owners of some clubs yet some will not have a bad word said about our owner who has made us one of the most expensive clubs to support in the land. How we mocked Leed's ticket prices, until ours were more then we explained it away because you can't get promotion for free.

 

 

[The only way is S6]

Delving into the 'personal fortune' riddle of DC's finances won't explain our future though will it? I enjoyed reading the OP, I just thought it's all a bit vague.

 

If he gets bored, frustrated or skint, he's not gonna sell us for thirty bob is he? He's already put money in for the pitch, the scoreboard & a lot of players, with all their expenses too.

 

Whether he's as thick as poo, or a business whizz, he ain't leaving without a return, if possible. We'd still be a very attractive, lucrative, & potential earner to somebody. And he'll be sole, outright owner in December, so he has to then try even harder to make it pay. Or it's all been for nothing & a waste of time & money.

I'm sure he wants to get to the PL as much as we do. He has far more invested in the club than any of us do. Can't imagine for a minute he's not planned well ahead. The ironic thing is, the only thing he can't control are football matters, which are the main thing that affect his investment. He can employ whoever he wants, but that doesn't guarantee success. Just that some managers have more chance of succeeding. He needs to work that out for himself, unless he believes in the one he has.

 

I do find it a bit odd that the man in the street 'worries' about the clubs finances. I've spent £550 on an ST. It's a miniscule drop in the ocean in modern football. Let DC do the worrying.

[londonowl]

2 minutes ago, The only way is S6 said:

Delving into the 'personal fortune' riddle of DC's finances won't explain our future though will it? I enjoyed reading the OP, I just thought it's all a bit vague.

 

If he gets bored, frustrated or skint, he's not gonna sell us for thirty bob is he? He's already put money in for the pitch, the scoreboard & a lot of players, with all their expenses too.

 

Whether he's as thick as poo, or a business whizz, he ain't leaving without a return, if possible. We'd still be a very attractive, lucrative, & potential earner to somebody. And he'll be sole, outright owner in December, so he has to then try even harder to make it pay. Or it's all been for nothing & a waste of time & money.

I'm sure he wants to get to the PL as much as we do. He has far more invested in the club than any of us do. Can't imagine for a minute he's not planned well ahead. The ironic thing is, the only thing he can't control are football matters, which are the main thing that affect his investment. He can employ whoever he wants, but that doesn't guarantee success. Just that some managers have more chance of succeeding. He needs to work that out for himself, unless he believes in the one he has.

 

I do find it a bit odd that the man in the street 'worries' about the clubs finances. I've spent £550 on an ST. It's a miniscule drop in the ocean in modern football. Let DC do the worrying.

 

Will you worry more when your season ticket is £1200?

[HarrowbyOwl]

4 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

His shareholder % isn't public knowledge

Yes it is, he owns 53,828,772 shares in Thai Union Group plc (1.13%) see Thai Stock Exchange Link

This may also include the shares of his wife Tipparut and sons Att and Nat. 

 

What companies?

A trawl through TUG Annual Statement 2016 reveals the following companies, DCs % of shares in brackets:

D Chansiri A Co., Ltd. (1%)
Thai Union Hi-tech Pearl Cultivation Co.,Ltd: (15%) 
Geminai Water Craft Co., Ltd. (80%) 
Thai Union Properties Co.,Ltd.(25.7%) 
Chansiri Real Estate Co., Ltd. (25.4%) 

Geminai & Associate Co., Ltd. (92.0%)

 

Whether his share of trading profits from the above companies keeps the SWFC circus on the road is anybody's guess.

As others have said, its not easy to find out what the turnover and profitability of the companies is.

 

4 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

 

 

 

[fred mciver]

Anyway, it's not his motives that really matter,  just way he manages things and he's on a steep learning curve.

 

To doll out so much on Reach and Rhodes - to put on bench , with others, or Middlewood or treatment room (Abdi, Urby et al) - suggests he's getting mugged.   

 

Ditto shirt debacle.

 

Let's hope lessons learned and Carlos etc  can choose players in January.

[HarrowbyOwl]

3 hours ago, londonowl said:

Doesn't help much but I can add this.

 

Dejphon Chansiri directly owns less than 1.44% of TUF. 1) His exact shareholding is not known but all owners of more than 1.44% are published.

 

That being said, The Chansiri Group owns 23.18% of TUF and as this is not a publicly traded group, 1) it's not possible to determine the exact ownership of that group however The Chansiris are a fairly large clan with the lowest ownership percentages appearing to be reserved for Dejphon and Disaphol.

 

DC Owns 25.4% of Chansiri Real Estate Ltd, 92% of Geminai & Associate Co Ltd, 80% of Geminai Water Craft Co Ltd and 6% of Thai Union Properties Co Ltd. All of these appear to be companies primarily related to providing properties or services to TUF with Chanisiri Real Estate receiving around 25 million Baht from TUF per year for company offices (£500,000).

 

I can't come up with any record of DC being in business outside of those somehow connected to, or receiving payment from TUF. Except of course the ones we knowabout, SWFC, Elev8 and D Performance.

 

From what I can gather, DC's 'wealth' is entirely contingent on what percentage of The Chansiri Group he owns. He of course has had no involvement with TUF so arguably has no business pedigree whatsoever.

 

1) 1.13% according to SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) Link (Translation of page required)

2) I once came across this breakdown. Unfortunately its a bit out of date and I forgot to save the link

 

I know the 2 figures don't tally. I suspect the 1.13% from SET is for the whole DC family, diluted since the figures in the table were published.

[londonowl]

3 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

 

1) 1.13% according to SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) Link (Translation of page required)

2) I once came across this breakdown. Unfortunately its a bit out of date and I forgot to save the link

 

I know the 2 figures don't tally. I suspect the 1.13% from SET is for the whole DC family, diluted since the figures in the table were published.

Good find and yes, you are right. All the shares have been diluted since these figures. Chansiri Group stock is now around 16% of the new larger capital issue which I found after my initial post.

[OxonOwl]

Pornnapa !

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

25 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

 

 

It is difficult to find out about Mr Chansiris other companies.

 

Do you think this is because they are of a size where full accounts don't need to be disclosed?

 

And if so, what conclusions could be drawn?