DC the "successful businessman" and the failing media

[londonowl]

Doesn't help much but I can add this.

 

Dejphon Chansiri directly owns less than 1.44% of TUF. His exact shareholding is not known but all owners of more than 1.44% are published.

 

That being said, The Chansiri Group owns 23.18% of TUF and as this is not a publicly traded group, it's not possible to determine the exact ownership of that group however The Chansiris are a fairly large clan with the lowest ownership percentages appearing to be reserved for Dejphon and Disaphol.

 

DC Owns 25.4% of Chansiri Real Estate Ltd, 92% of Geminai & Associate Co Ltd, 80% of Geminai Water Craft Co Ltd and 6% of Thai Union Properties Co Ltd. All of these appear to be companies primarily related to providing properties or services to TUF with Chanisiri Real Estate receiving around 25 million Baht from TUF per year for company offices (£500,000).

 

I can't come up with any record of DC being in business outside of those somehow connected to, or receiving payment from TUF. Except of course the ones we knowabout, SWFC, Elev8 and D Performance.

 

From what I can gather, DC's 'wealth' is entirely contingent on what percentage of The Chansiri Group he owns. He of course has had no involvement with TUF so arguably has no business pedigree whatsoever.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Yeah...

 

The whole “successful” businessman thing seems to have upset a few. 

 

His family own TUF, right? 

 

Perhaps his “success” derived from having done a good job working in the family business? 

 

 

It's not upset a few. Certainly not me.

 

its concerned me massively though.

 

 

[brian joicey]

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

conclusion

 Being speculative, there are question marks over just how much more money we can expect to be pumped into SWFC- and I'd hazard a guess that's largely dependent on who our "friends" are and how deep their pockets are. 

one thing that always sticks in my mind is when Chansiri first took over all the boarding (at the back of him when doing press conferences) said TUF across it, then it was suddenly removed.... why ? 

 

[stowyowl]

I thought it was an interesting read. I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, I've taken away from it, but I enjoyed reading it.

[SiJ]

Thing is he could have fantastic business pedigree and still not have a clue how to run a football club.

 

Regardless of his pedigree, it is becoming more apparent that he needs to start delegating or appointing people who have operated within this area.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

11 minutes ago, bigdan2003 said:

Don't quite understand it all, but if you look at TUF's report for 2014 there seems to be some subsidiary firms that DC is a director at...

 

Chansiri Real Estate Co Ltd

Gemini & Associates

Gemini Water Craft

 

https://issuu.com/ar.tuf.si/docs/20150318-tuf-ar2014-en

 

@StudentOwl This is how you will be able to start making some kind of conclusion......

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

5 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Thing is he could have fantastic business pedigree and still not have a clue how to run a football club.

 

Regardless of his pedigree, it is becoming more apparent that he needs to start delegating or appointing people who have operated within this area.

People are beginning to join the dots that I've known about for some time now.  I suspect soon you'll know whether he does or not.

 

Then you'll be able to make conclusions about what this might mean for SWFC.

[londonowl]

3 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

@StudentOwl This is how you will be able to start making some kind of conclusion......

This is some of the info I posted. They are not subsidiaries, they are connected companies as in, companies with shared ownership or family connections. Worth noting though that in 2013 the total value of transactions between TUF and these companies was less than £550,000.

 

Ownership of TUF has altered slightly in last couple of years. It's a bit of a minefield but appears that DC owns very, very little of TUF. 'The Chansiri Group' who make up the biggest TUF shareholder are Dispol, Kraisorn, Thirapong and Pornnapa. Unless he's hiding it well somewhere, it looks to me very much like DC has family money but not necessarily a great personal wealth. He appears to have shareholdings in companies, alongside Disaphol who also owns very very little of TUF, which are designed to give them 'income' via property ownership which is in turn rented to TUF.

[Mr. Tom]

Frankly I couldn't give two hoots about his other ventures, as long as they're broadly ethical. To that end, the only basic bit of research I did when DC arrived, effectively bearing his TUG affiliation as his entire business CV, was to look into what that company had been up to in recent years. I wasn't thrilled with what I found, especially with regards to labour and environmental practices - John West Foods have a pretty terrible UK track record on the latter front, too - but I was encouraged by the very public commitments TUG have made in recent years to overhauling and sorting out a lot of their previous poor form on both counts by 2020. Besides, as you've said, DC isn't necessarily directly involved with that operation on a day-to-day basis.

 

The purely financial/business side of running SWFC, I accept we must leave to leave to him and his say-so. Whether or not he's any sort of corporate genius, he's bought the rights to that end of things fair and square. That's the inherent risk any owned football club takes: it might work out ok, it might not. We've seen both happen here before, and countless times at other clubs.

 

You could even argue that he's bought the rights to run the whole operation as he sees fit, and it would technically be difficult to argue. But of course we hope he acknowledges that a storied old football club in the heart of a post-industrial UK city is much more than just a business to be run top-down with an iron fist (like almost all other commercial enterprises anywhere in the world are, no matter how 'friendly' their public face).

 

IMO, indications so far suggest that he does understand that, despite the rumours of dissatisfaction from some people further down the chain of command, to whatever extent they're accurate or fair. (Let's not forget that people who are vaguely comfortable don't tend to like change of any kind - and understandably so - so you've always got to be cautious and view any personal account as just one side of a story.)

 

He might need to be here a good few years to fully find his feet and really understand what it is he's bought into, though. As a vaguely contextual aside, TUG was founded in 1977, one year after a violent coup when military rule was in place. I mention this not because it's in any way relevant now, or to SWFC - clearly in 2017 it's not at all - but merely as very broad-strokes illustration of the fact that it must've been a dramatically different business world DC grew up around. Not saying there's any lingering influence there or anything daft like that; my point is just that I think it's maybe a bit unreasonable for anyone to expect a completely seamless transition over his first two seasons spent travelling back-and-forth with family between Thailand, London and Sheffield.

 

In those two seasons, though, I do think he's shown various signs of genuine good intent here - the willingness to sign players (for better or worse); the regular opening of genuine dialogue channels with fan groups; the fact that he doesn't seem to be trying to run things entirely remotely, or carrying an ego the size of the South Stand, or mouthing off on Twitter. While there have undoubtedly been some (lots?) of misfires, to me he still looks a million miles from the likes of Venkys or that nutcase at Villa.

 

Also, bottom line: regardless of how much more cash he's able to pump in over the coming months, he really isn't going to want to fail here. Speaking purely for myself, if I could snap my fingers and decide whether he stays another five years or walks tomorrow, I'd be inclined to give him the time.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[SiJ]

10 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

People are beginning to join the dots that I've known about for some time now.  I suspect soon you'll know whether he does or not.

 

Then you'll be able to make conclusions about what this might mean for SWFC.

I think you've made your views pretty clear.

 

You think the guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing and we're all doomed.

 

No offence - but I kinda hope you're completely wrong.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

1 minute ago, SiJ said:

I think you've made your views pretty clear.

 

You think the guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing and we're all doomed.

 

No offence - but I kinda hope you're completely wrong.

I don't think we are necessarily doomed.

 

However, the phrase I must have used 1000 times on here, is we have a 'finite window of time' to get promoted.

 

if we do not get promoted soon, there is the potential, for it to get extremely messy.

 

Hence my apparent lack of patience with Carlos.  Patience is something we cannot afford to have lots of.

[londonowl]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

Frankly I couldn't give two hoots about his other ventures, as long as they're broadly ethical. To that end, the only basic bit of research I did when DC arrived, effectively bearing his TUG affiliation as his entire business CV, was to look into what that company had been up to in recent years. I wasn't thrilled with what I found, especially with regards to labour and environmental practices - John West Foods have a pretty terrible UK track record on the latter front, too - but I was encouraged by the very public commitments TUG have made in recent years to overhauling and sorting out a lot of their previous poor form on both counts by 2020. Besides, as you've said, DC isn't necessarily directly involved with that operation on a day-to-day basis.

 

The purely financial/business side of running SWFC, I accept we must leave to leave to him and his say-so. Whether or not he's any sort of corporate genius, he's bought the rights to that end of things fair and square. That's the inherent risk any owned football club takes: it might work out ok, it might not. We've seen both happen here before, and countless times at other clubs.

 

You could even argue that he's bought the rights to run the whole operation as he sees fit, and it would technically be difficult to argue. But of course we hope he acknowledges that a storied old football club in the heart of a post-industrial UK city is much more than just a business to be run top-down with an iron fist (like almost all other commercial enterprises anywhere in the world are, no matter how 'friendly' their public face).

 

IMO, indications so far suggest that he does understand that, despite the rumours of dissatisfaction from some people further down the chain of command, to whatever extent they're accurate or fair. (Let's not forget that people who are vaguely comfortable don't tend to like change of any kind - and understandably so - so you've always got to be cautious and view any personal account as just one side of a story.)

 

He might need to be here a good few years to fully find his feet and really understand what it is he's bought into, though. As a vaguely contextual aside, TUG was founded in 1977, one year after a violent coup when military rule was in place. I mention this not because it's in any way relevant now, or to SWFC - clearly in 2017 it's not at all - but merely as very broad-strokes illustration of the fact that it must've been a dramatically different business world DC grew up around. Not saying there's any lingering influence there or anything daft like that; my point is just that I think it's maybe a bit unreasonable for anyone to expect a completely seamless transition over his first two seasons spent travelling back-and-forth with family between Thailand, London and Sheffield.

 

In those two seasons, though, I do think he's shown various signs of genuine good intent here - the willingness to sign players (for better or worse); the regular opening of genuine dialogue channels with fan groups; the fact that he doesn't seem to be trying to run things entirely remotely, or carrying an ego the size of the South Stand, or mouthing off on Twitter. While there have undoubtedly been some (lots?) of misfires, to me he still looks a million miles from the likes of Venkys or that nutcase at Villa.

 

Also, bottom line: regardless of how much more cash he's able to pump in over the coming months, he really isn't going to want to fail here. Speaking purely for myself, if I could snap my fingers and decide whether he stays another five years or walks tomorrow, I'd be inclined to give him the time.

 

Personally, I think it's unfortunate that rather than taking the opportunity to really have the fans onside and build a fantastic future for the club, the 'little' things that are relatively insignificant to the club but hugely significant to the fans are being overlooked.

 

I'm not suggesting that we have any right to dictate what the club does, just that I think it would be better for all concerned if the fans were put immediately second when making business decisions, rather than a distant second.

 

I don't need to go into what the issues are, even the most ardent of supporters can recognise that having the most expensive tickets, most expensive boxes, most expensive shirts, most expensive hospitality, most expensive mascots etc etc etc is not ideal...even if you can afford it.

 

I'm not one of the perpetual nay sayers, I've actually said very little on the subject but I think the issue is coming to a head. Maybe it's related to issues on the pitch but actually, I think it goes deeper than that. More and more people (sane, sensible people) were starting to ask questions long before the current run of poor form.

[Mr. Tom]

Just now, londonowl said:

 

Personally, I think it's unfortunate that rather than taking the opportunity to really have the fans onside and build a fantastic future for the club, the 'little' things that are relatively insignificant to the club but hugely significant to the fans are being overlooked.

 

I'm not suggesting that we have any right to dictate what the club does, just that I think it would be better for all concerned if the fans were put immediately second when making business decisions, rather than a distant second.

 

I don't need to go into what the issues are, even the most ardent of supporters can recognise that having the most expensive tickets, most expensive boxes, most expensive shirts, most expensive hospitality, most expensive mascots etc etc etc is not ideal...even if you can afford it.

 

I'm not one of the perpetual nay sayers, I've actually said very little on the subject but I think the issue is coming to a head. Maybe it's related to issues on the pitch but actually, I think it goes deeper than that. More and more people (sane, sensible people) were starting to ask questions long before the current run of poor form.

 

Fair comments all.

[Jeff King's dog]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

Also, bottom line: regardless of how much more cash he's able to pump in over the coming months, he really isn't going to want to fail here. Speaking purely for myself, if I could snap my fingers and decide whether he stays another five years or walks tomorrow, I'd be inclined to give him the time.

 

We can chew the fat all we like, but no amount of investigation over his true wealth will actually alter the situation at S6.

 

As far as we are aware, he has 100% ownership due to his purchase from MM. There was some talk of deferred consideration which may or may not be true, but until shown otherwise DC owns SWFC.

 

As at today we look unlikely to be promoted this season, although it is still relatively early and other teams have gone up from below where we are now, so it is not impossible.

 

Assuming we DON'T go up then the questions are more about his stomach for another year's battle and his financial ability to pay for it. Regardless of his own wealth, if the family view is that buying a big English football club is a 'good thing', then I'm sure they will chuck in another £5m/£10m/£20m as required. If the family aren't involved and SWFC is basically his 'plaything', then the bobbar may hit the fan sooner rather than later.

 

We do not know enough about his wealth, the family's view on SWFC nor their motivations, so we can only speculate. We reamain at DC's mercy and can only hope he has the cash and the guts to stay for the long haul.

 

[SiJ]

3 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

I don't think we are necessarily doomed.

 

However, the phrase I must have used 1000 times on here, is we have a 'finite window of time' to get promoted.

 

if we do not get promoted soon, there is the potential, for it to get extremely messy.

 

Hence my apparent lack of patience with Carlos.  Patience is something we cannot afford to have lots of.

That's a fair point.

 

I'd imagine if we don't go up this season (which is looking pretty unlikely) that they'll be a clear out in the summer of some top earners. Question is how many clubs will be willing to take them on...

 

Truth be told (and I've said this in a few threads), we need a rethink for me. A more of a long term plan and ethos.

 

Try and build something with a core of younger players (who can be sold on for profit down the line) and try and build a team for promotion, rather than cobble together something and hope for the best.

 

Might be wishful thinking on my part.

[Mr. Tom]

Just now, Jeff King's dog said:

 

We can chew the fat all we like, but no amount of investigation over his true wealth will actually alter the situation at S6.

 

As far as we are aware, he has 100% ownership due to his purchase from MM. There was some talk of deferred consideration which may or may not be true, but until shown otherwise DC owns SWFC.

 

As at today we look unlikely to be promoted this season, although it is still relatively early and other teams have gone up from below where we are now, so it is not impossible.

 

Assuming we DON'T go up then the questions are more about his stomach for another year's battle and his financial ability to pay for it. Regardless of his own wealth, if the family view is that buying a big English football club is a 'good thing', then I'm sure they will chuck in another £5m/£10m/£20m as required. If the family aren't involved and SWFC is basically his 'plaything', then the bobbar may hit the fan sooner rather than later.

 

We do not know enough about his wealth, the family's view on SWFC nor their motivations, so we can only speculate. We reamain at DC's mercy and can only hope he has the cash and the guts to stay for the long haul.

 

 

Agreed, absolutely. Like you, I gather from your tone, I wouldn't go so far as to say 'worried' at this point - but any concern I have is far more about what might happen 2018-2020 than what happens this season.

[fred mciver]

To be fair, Jonathan Buchan on Radio Sheffield's Football Heaven said last Monday that DC's just a rich kid who bought us as a toy for his child.

 

Hence shambles in recruitment and commercial areas.

 

Not sure about Doyen speculation as how annual scouting contract with them - for £378,000 per year - was on Footyleaks  website until recently.

 

Also, a copy of contract for a player's deal moving to us where they were involved. 

[frastheowl]

12 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

I don't think we are necessarily doomed.

 

However, the phrase I must have used 1000 times on here, is we have a 'finite window of time' to get promoted.

 

if we do not get promoted soon, there is the potential, for it to get extremely messy.

 

Hence my apparent lack of patience with Carlos.  Patience is something we cannot afford to have lots of.

 

Why a "finite window of time"?

 

Because Chansiri (and as a result Wednesday) will run out of money?

 

Or just he'll get bored, flip off and pull the plug?

[londonowl]

5 minutes ago, fred mciver said:

To be fair, Jonathan Buchan on Radio Sheffield's Football Heaven said last Monday that DC's just a rich kid who bought us as a toy for his child.

 

Hence shambles in recruitment and commercial areas.

 

Not sure about Doyen speculation as how annual scouting contract with them - for £378,000 per year - was on Footyleaks  website until recently.

 

Also, a copy of contract for a player's deal moving to us where they were involved. 

 

I stand to be corrected but I don't think DC has the wealth to have us as a 'plaything'. We are a serious business taking some serious capital off him which would be why he is apparently holding so much control over everything.

 

Also, those commenting on TUF, The Chansiris do not have the ability to decide where TUF spend their money. After a dilution, I think they own around 16% of a publicly traded compnay. That doesn't give you the right to spend money on whatever you want. Mitsubishi are the largest single shareholder in TUF.

Edited October 23, 2017 by londonowl
add

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

2 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Why a "finite window of time"?

 

Because Chansiri (and as a result Wednesday) will run out of money?

 

Or just he'll get bored, flip off and pull the plug?

Possibly both.

 

According to everything I can find, and believe me I have looked very very hard, certainly the money.