torryowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Indoor Owl said: I'd disagree with this: We set out to control the tempo of the game, and often we do dicate the tempo of the game - it's just that it's not the tempo many fans prefer to be seeing. We absolutely setup games to control the tempo, play patient, try to be better on the ball, then swing the ball in; and that's what we do. As long as we're scoring the chances when they come, we're winning games, just that it's not the end-to-end fast paced football people prefer. It's a controlled tempo game, just like most of the continental game. Our problem has been some lacklustre goalkeeping this campaign, and an astounding number of blown offensive chances. We've only really been outplayed in two games. It's definitely not the most exciting football to watch, but people better get used to it - especially when we win promotion this year: It's the only way we're going to be able to stay in the PL and build a warchest. I'm used to it from watching the Portuguese national team, they tend to behave in the same way. In any case, we're trying to win promotion, not 'most exciting 9th place finisher in the Championship'. Stick with what has got us into the playoffs twice in a row, rather than try and re-invent the side into a style of play that we're not at all built for in terms of personnel. at last someone who lives in the real world ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Always thought out tempo is very lethargic at the start of most games. I wondered if this was with Wednesday trying to play a more Portuguese style where in the hotter climate you have conserve energy otherwise you are a spent force after an hour. But either way it isn't half dull to watch when you have been brought up with the more high energy British style of play. Not just Wednesday but you rarely see a blood and thunder game anymore which I really used to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian joicey Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 10 hours ago, dumboldowl said: We're all pretty much in agreement here. The only ones who don't seem to be able to grasp the problem are the ones who allow the problem to continue match after match. which is exactly why they shouldn't be allowed to carry on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetland Owl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 we never start playing until the second half, no matter what team we play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 10 hours ago, OughtibridgeOwl said: Staggering fact that mate. and I hundred percent agree. With the fire power at our disposal it’s criminal. If we won all our games 1-0 we'd be in the Premiership now...wanting the team to win 3-0 is just self entitled claptrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSlicer Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, daveyboy66 said: If we won all our games 1-0 we'd be in the Premiership now...wanting the team to win 3-0 is just self entitled claptrap I never said I wanted the team to win 3-0 every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) How the heck are we going to play a fast tempo generally when we have players like Jones, Wallace, even Fletcher and Hooper. They are simply not mobile enough The pressing game we played for part of games early in Carlos's time was based on Lee Bannan Hutch but more importantly FF and often Joao pressing from the front The second problem is we don't win enough headers, tackles or second balls to continually play high tempo. It is impossible to play high tempo and keep possession continually unless you are Barca or similar . Because we are not winning these things the only way we can keep possession and control the game is by playing a slow possession game Edited October 20, 2017 by oldishowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, oldishowl said: How the heck are we going to play a fast tempo generally when we have players like Jones, Wallace, even Fletcher and Hooper. They are simply not mobile enough The pressing game we played for part of games early in Carlos's time was based on Lee Bannan Hutch but more importantly FF and often Joao pressing from the front The second problem is we don't win enough headers, tackles or second balls to continually play high tempo. It is impossible to play high tempo and keep possession continually unless you are Barca or similar . Because we are not winning these things the only way we can keep possession and control the game is by playing a slow possession game I agree with part of this. Pressing was one of our greatest strengths in 15/16. But you mention Wallace as a problem, when in fact he was responsible for a lot of our excellent pressing. He, Lee and Bannan regularly hounded the ball away from the oppos. I agree too that FF was one of our best pressers. His energy, speed and tenacity in tight spaces, again supported by Bannan and Lee, won us lots of ball upfield. Where we differ though us your idea that Hooper and Fletcher don't suit this pressing. Of course they do. Look back at our large margin wins in 15/16 and they all had the same thing in common...Wallace Bannan Lee FF across midfield, and Hooper with either Joao or Nuhiu up top. The 4 tenacious midfielders won the ball high up time and time again, and the attacking duo of Hooper plus one profited, as did the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Indoor Owl said: I'd disagree with this: We set out to control the tempo of the game, and often we do dicate the tempo of the game - it's just that it's not the tempo many fans prefer to be seeing. We absolutely setup games to control the tempo, play patient, try to be better on the ball, then swing the ball in; and that's what we do. As long as we're scoring the chances when they come, we're winning games, just that it's not the end-to-end fast paced football people prefer. It's a controlled tempo game, just like most of the continental game. Our problem has been some lacklustre goalkeeping this campaign, and an astounding number of blown offensive chances. We've only really been outplayed in two games. It's definitely not the most exciting football to watch, but people better get used to it - especially when we win promotion this year: It's the only way we're going to be able to stay in the PL and build a warchest. I'm used to it from watching the Portuguese national team, they tend to behave in the same way. In any case, we're trying to win promotion, not 'most exciting 9th place finisher in the Championship'. Stick with what has got us into the playoffs twice in a row, rather than try and re-invent the side into a style of play that we're not at all built for in terms of personnel. Just because it works for Portugal or certain other teams it doesnt mean it's an effective way to approach games in the Championship. Especially not high pressure games such as play off games or derby games. As has been proven. We've been made to look silly eith how lethargic and negative we've been. Especially at the start. That transpires into anger and frustration in the stands and finally created fear on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Holmowl said: I agree with part of this. Pressing was one of our greatest strengths in 15/16. But you mention Wallace as a problem, when in fact he was responsible for a lot of our excellent pressing. He, Lee and Bannan regularly hounded the ball away from the oppos. I agree too that FF was one of our best pressers. His energy, speed and tenacity in tight spaces, again supported by Bannan and Lee, won us lots of ball upfield. Where we differ though us your idea that Hooper and Fletcher don't suit this pressing. Of course they do. Look back at our large margin wins in 15/16 and they all had the same thing in common...Wallace Bannan Lee FF across midfield, and Hooper with either Joao or Nuhiu up top. The 4 tenacious midfielders won the ball high up time and time again, and the attacking duo of Hooper plus one profited, as did the team. Wallace is not quick enough nor fit enough, people just run past him Him and Jones were glacial at Bolton and deservedly got subbed at half time Watch Fletcher and Hooper, they are not mobile enough to play a pressing game which has to start at the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee A Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Baffling why we're so slow when we have a team full of players who can't run. Desperate for 2 years to sign somebody with pace, brought in Butterfield and Boyd. Excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quist Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Was hoping this was going to be a thread about Strictly. still I think the fans are asking for an Argentine Tango rather than Military two pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31Dec1966 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 18 hours ago, Ballmeist said: One of my main frustrations watching Wednesday over the last 3 seasons is that we never set the tempo of a game regardless of who we’re playing, or whether we’re home or away. We we always seem to try and feel our way into a game to see how the other team want to play. Against lesser opposition this only serves to build their confidence which is part of the reason why we get such poor results, and possibly an explanation as to why we don’t compete in the opening 45. thoughts? I couldn't agree more. Except that in the first season under Carlos we DID just that. We have a much better squad now (Helan on as sub at Wembley wouldn't happen now, Rhodes, Boyd or Matias now). I don't understand it at all. We have the players, attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 9 hours ago, oldishowl said: Wallace is not quick enough nor fit enough, people just run past him Him and Jones were glacial at Bolton and deservedly got subbed at half time Watch Fletcher and Hooper, they are not mobile enough to play a pressing game which has to start at the front But they score lots of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debram Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 9 hours ago, oldishowl said: Wallace is not quick enough nor fit enough, people just run past him Him and Jones were glacial at Bolton and deservedly got subbed at half time Watch Fletcher and Hooper, they are not mobile enough to play a pressing game which has to start at the front dont think hooper and fetcher are the problem, hooper is class and fletcher a grafter and they are both scoring, its the organisation of the defence and midfield, nowt to worry about then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 59 minutes ago, Holmowl said: But they score lots of goals. Where have I said they shouldn't play What I have said is that it is stupid expecting us to play an high pressing game with them up front , you seem to think we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, oldishowl said: Where have I said they shouldn't play What I have said is that it is stupid expecting us to play an high pressing game with them up front , you seem to think we can Yes I really do. Our best pressing, and turning that into goals, was 15/16 when we put FF Lee Bannan Wallace across the middle, with Hooper and Joao/Nuhiu up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 57 minutes ago, debram said: dont think hooper and fetcher are the problem, hooper is class and fletcher a grafter and they are both scoring, its the organisation of the defence and midfield, nowt to worry about then?? The thread is about tempo I haven't said Hooper and Fletcher are a problem generally just that they are not suitable for a high pressing game Although the only good game Fletcher has had recently was against a kid centre back playing for Leeds He was totally dominated by the pigs centre backs, by Morrison at Birmingham and by Wheater at Bolton and never posed any threat in any of those games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Yes I really do. Our best pressing, and turning that into goals, was 15/16 when we put FF Lee Bannan Wallace across the middle, with Hooper and Joao/Nuhiu up front. How many times did that front 6 start a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debram Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 9 hours ago, oldishowl said: The thread is about tempo I haven't said Hooper and Fletcher are a problem generally just that they are not suitable for a high pressing game Although the only good game Fletcher has had recently was against a kid centre back playing for Leeds He was totally dominated by the pigs centre backs, by Morrison at Birmingham and by Wheater at Bolton and never posed any threat in any of those games Need joao for pace then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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