Holmowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said: Funny what a game does as after the pigs defeat we would have been replacing everyone, especially Jones who gave us a lightweight midfield. So I would put Hutch in for Jones to add more strength and allow the full backs and Bannan and Lee to get forward more If ever there was a game where our full backs and Lee and Bannan got forward, it was yesterday. The perfect game game where we could easily had a cricket score (bar, post, Lee offside, Fletch inches past, Hooper left foot one on one, Joost an inch too short at the back post at 11 foot three). Jones was a key part of this. Are you sure Hutch would have done that role as well as David yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, ramone said: Not sure you got the memo from September 2015 mate... We don't start games like that, but since Rotherham away at the end of last season, Carlos has switched to 433 quite often. We've looked brilliant EVERY time. The start of the 2nd half against the pigs being the latest example. Teams just can't handle us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodys Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Its easy to say this after yesterday but following the pigs and brum matches there weren't many that were safe from a benching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Strength in depth is the key. Hutch for Jones in an ideal world where he doesn't get booked or injured. Special mention for Reach. Dogger against the pigs, but bounced back & is keeping two natural left backs out of the side. JVA bounced back well too for a young bloke thrown in at the deep end. Be interesting to see if Loovens comes in. Good choices to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, Copthorneowl said: Can't believe how people form or change opinions on one or the odd game. Jones was crap against United and had been for a while, now he's better than Hutch no he's not they're not remotely in the same league but one if them is injury prone and also on occasions reckless but as footballers in our side they are not near to being close on ability. Same with Fletcher he'd lost his friends after United and Brum now he's a world beater. Players have good and bad periods just like us six months ago Hooper was a fat waste of time now he's the best striker in the league it really makes for comedy reading at times. Dont get me going on Forestiero and Carlos for that matter if we're doing well we don't need Nando utter testifies he remains our best and financially most saleable player IMO! Dont you think that should be turned the other way round though? Consider Jones. Prior to United we were unbeaten in 12 with Jones in CM. He played 45 minutes, he was lousy, along with 9 others - I exclude GH - and we were no better the next 45 minutes. He sat out at St Andrews and we lost. He had sat out at Preston, and we lost. Comes back yesterday, 3-0. His is a quite extraordinary record for us, yet after a crap 45 he was and still is being written off by many on here. And who do they want back in his place? Hutch, whose last four matches were three defeats and a draw. Double-standards. I think Jones could feature in 20 straight wins, then following a defeat the pitch-forks would resurface. Fletch similarly. Our success as a team with the Fletch-Hoops tandem is championship-winning form. Two defeats later many were calling for it to be broken up for Joao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Dont you think that should be turned the other way round though? Consider Jones. Prior to United we were unbeaten in 12 with Jones in CM. He played 45 minutes, he was lousy, along with 9 others - I exclude GH - and we were no better the next 45 minutes. He sat out at St Andrews and we lost. He had sat out at Preston, and we lost. Comes back yesterday, 3-0. His is a quite extraordinary record for us, yet after a crap 45 he was and still is being written off by many on here. And who do they want back in his place? Hutch, whose last four matches were three defeats and a draw. Double-standards. I think Jones could feature in 20 straight wins, then following a defeat the pitch-forks would resurface. Fletch similarly. Our success as a team with the Fletch-Hoops tandem is championship-winning form. Two defeats later many were calling for it to be broken up for Joao. We're mid table. Hooper and a fletcher have played virtually every game together this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 51 minutes ago, Earlsfieldowl said: Big question is what CC does when they are fit - will he put then straight back in. Our strong run towards the end of last season occurred when players were injured - they were back for the playoffs..and we all know how that ended. CC has to stick with what works going forwards imo - keep the consistency in selection and lineup and the results will follow. This thing about selecting people for the play offs and ruining our form is a total myth made up on here. Hooper was injured for the playoffs yet you talk as if he was dropped and this was the only change for the away leg The midfield then got totally outplayed in the away leg and he strengthened it physically by bringing Hutch back in at home Yet again the players failed to perform but ignore that and blame the coach. The mistake he made was not making more changes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: We're mid table. Hooper and a fletcher have played virtually every game together this season. Look more closely. 14 points from the 8 games they partnered. 2 points from the 3 they didn't. And I don't think many fans would point the finger at the Hooper-Fletcher partnership for any of our weaker games so far. Though reading your views on Fletcher's performance on Sunday you might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Imagine our games with a fully fit squad; I don't envy the one having to pick the first XI then... so much quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorrallOwl17 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Loovens for Van Aken is also quite obvious for me. I know he needs to play games to get used to the league, but he looks poor so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I think hutch is a better player then jones but it's not a better team when he sits so deep just in front of the back 4 .....now i'm sure it's not his choice that he sits there so if we are to use him then he needs to play the same role as jones but whether his knees would allow to do that is open to debate .....you could put up a very strong argument that hutch & FF are our most talented players but you could put just as strong an argument that they don't fit into the side if we continue with the system that carlos as been toying with these past few weeks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southie_Owl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 35 minutes ago, Holmowl said: If ever there was a game where our full backs and Lee and Bannan got forward, it was yesterday. The perfect game game where we could easily had a cricket score (bar, post, Lee offside, Fletch inches past, Hooper left foot one on one, Joost an inch too short at the back post at 11 foot three). Jones was a key part of this. Are you sure Hutch would have done that role as well as David yesterday? But Hutch is a good passer of the ball too, obviously yesterday we didn't need so much defensive strength in midfield as Leeds weren't that great. But I would have preferred Hutch in midfield against the pigs and other top sides. He was excellent at Newcastle last season. I think you've gone on to mention how Hutch played in recent defeats but that may have been without the Lee and Hooper influence in the team? I just think leaving Van aken, Lees and Hutch back and letting everyone else attack may be the way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Look more closely. 14 points from the 8 games they partnered. 2 points from the 3 they didn't. And I don't think many fans would point the finger at the Hooper-Fletcher partnership for any of our weaker games so far. Though reading your views on Fletcher's performance on Sunday you might. god I love you and your stats .......everyone can have an opinion but stats like that and the jones one can blow those opinons out the water . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodys Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, WorrallOwl17 said: Loovens for Van Aken is also quite obvious for me. I know he needs to play games to get used to the league, but he looks poor so far its a tough one for me that - i think van aken strengthens our attack but weakens our defence at the mo - early days yet though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Newsome Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Probably Hutch in for Jones but the good thing is this season, Jones is doing well so we don't need to rush him back in. Let him recover fully first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Look more closely. 14 points from the 8 games they partnered. 2 points from the 3 they didn't. And I don't think many fans would point the finger at the Hooper-Fletcher partnership for any of our weaker games so far. Though reading your views on Fletcher's performance on Sunday you might. Doesn't matter which way you spin it, they've been on the pitch together for most of the season. We're midtable. They are getting the game time that so many have been begging for. The sort of game time that FF/Joao and Hooper/Joao have never had. And we're midtable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorrallOwl17 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, woodys said: its a tough one for me that - i think van aken strengthens our attack but weakens our defence at the mo - early days yet though The next run of games will tell us a lot more. Playing against a rough and tumble long ball side like Bolton then up against Chris Martin will see how he has adapted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodys Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, WorrallOwl17 said: The next run of games will tell us a lot more. Playing against a rough and tumble long ball side like Bolton then up against Chris Martin will see how he has adapted yeah definitely, glad the decision lies with carlos and not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: Doesn't matter which way you spin it, they've been on the pitch together for most of the season. We're midtable. They are getting the game time that so many have been begging for. The sort of game time that FF/Joao and Hooper/Joao have never had. And we're midtable. hooper & fletcher works why cant you see that ..14 points from 8 games is play off form ........those you mention may well work (or not) but why change summat that's working so well on the whim that it may or may not do better ......think we all agree bannan & lee are a good partnership but perhaps we could leave them out and try abdi &butterfield coz they may (or not) do better . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Southie_Owl said: But Hutch is a good passer of the ball too, obviously yesterday we didn't need so much defensive strength in midfield as Leeds weren't that great. But I would have preferred Hutch in midfield against the pigs and other top sides. He was excellent at Newcastle last season. I think you've gone on to mention how Hutch played in recent defeats but that may have been without the Lee and Hooper influence in the team? I just think leaving Van aken, Lees and Hutch back and letting everyone else attack may be the way forward Impossible for us to know for many reasons, but do we think Hutch would have replaced Jones in the promotion-winning Burnley twice, Derby and Wolves? His record for the tough-side builder Dyche is so impressive:- 15/16 played 41/46 winning the Championship with matches to spare 14/15 played 36/38 in the Prem 13/14 played 46/46* gaining promotion 8 points clear *here's a staggering one....he was subbed just four times in that promotion side. Dyche sat him on the bench for 55 minutes in an entire season!!!! Really, in our heart of hearts, do we honestly think Sam is a better CM than Jones? Do we think Dyche would or should have played Sam ahead of Jones had he been on Burnley's books? When Jones played against us I can't even remember him being on the field. I remember Barton, Vokes, Gray...but not Jones (ok scored a free-kick). I can see why we under-rate Jones, and we do. And I can see why we rate Hutch, but we over-rate him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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