StudentOwl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just now, fpowl said: I'm sure he would take less and even though it's been risky paying him full whack to rot We arnt getting big fees for him let's be wright I genuinely just think we are playing the arse with him I'm sure after the window shut if we would have offered him 500k to be realised so he can get a club on a free transfer then he would have took that he his costing over a million in wages a year that's why How do you know we haven't offered less and he's said "no"? At the end of the day, you don't. You're painting him in this very innocent light, but as Marc has said, this has happened at two other clubs before as well. I'm not going to make an assumption as to what's going on behind the scenes, but gun to my head, if it's a choice between -Him wanting out willing to accept early contract termination with reduced payment -The club offering him early termination and Lewis telling the club he's not interested and would rather just get his full pay Then I'd probably have to choose the latter, rightly or wrongly. He has history for this type of thing. But as I say, I'm not willing to make that sort of call... So I just can't accept the viewpoint that he's a victim here. My árse will be full of splinters as I fence sit until there's some decisive evidence either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Which if that's the case then why not still release him. If he's not prepared to take a pay off cheaper and refuses to move. ( I can't understand why anyone in the prime of there career would squander a full season of a short career ) then sod him let him rot. but I just think the mcgugan thing can not be healthy for club and player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcx666 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, fpowl said: Which if that's the case then why not still release him. If he's not prepared to take a pay off cheaper and refuses to move. ( I can't understand why anyone in the prime of there career would squander a full season of a short career ) then sod him let him rot. but I just think the mcgugan thing can not be healthy for club and player we are sodding him and letting him rot, thats the thing mate. It doesnt really seem to be affecting the club, no more than dielna, bus, lachman, melo etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 minute ago, fpowl said: Which if that's the case then why not still release him. If he's not prepared to take a pay off cheaper and refuses to move. ( I can't understand why anyone in the prime of there career would squander a full season of a short career ) then sod him let him rot. but I just think the mcgugan thing can not be healthy for club and player But if we release him there's no transfer fee involved so clubs can afford to pay his wages (and he's also not earning a wage so at that point he would probably accept lower wages). So then he's not rotting... a free agent of McGugan's quality would be picked up in a couple of weeks, no question. The club loses out either way, but assuming that Lewis is indeed refusing to accept termination deals with a reduced payout (which we don't know, it's just hypothetical!) then the best way to "let him rot" is by making his career stagnate by leaving him stuck here rather than letting him leave and invariably getting a new club within a month. If this is what's going on, it's literally a "who blinks first" kind of deal: Does McGugan accept a reduced pay-off so his career gets back on track, or will the club finally concede it's bad to have a negative influence around the camp and offer to terminate his contract with wages paid in full. As I say, all hypothetical supposition, this is just one of a few scenarios that's gone off to lead us to him not having a squad number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, StudentOwl said: How do you know we haven't offered less and he's said "no"? At the end of the day, you don't. You're painting him in this very innocent light, but as Marc has said, this has happened at two other clubs before as well. I'm not going to make an assumption as to what's going on behind the scenes, but gun to my head, if it's a choice between -Him wanting out willing to accept early contract termination with reduced payment -The club offering him early termination and Lewis telling the club he's not interested and would rather just get his full pay Then I'd probably have to choose the latter, rightly or wrongly. He has history for this type of thing. But as I say, I'm not willing to make that sort of call... So I just can't accept the viewpoint that he's a victim here. My árse will be full of splinters as I fence sit until there's some decisive evidence either way Student I know you like a good old argument or debate on here trying to drill down into the nitty picky things and if you want me to concede to the point that I don't believe he his innocent I will however innocent or not surely it is not a positive him being around the club and we should look to terminate in some sort ill put it this way if he doesn't find or refuses to go or we can't agree a deal with a team come the end of the transfer window. Would you keep him and pay his full wages and keep him with the kids or pay him off in full and get him out ( I'm assuming his contract is up at the end of the season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, fpowl said: Student I know you like a good old argument or debate on here trying to drill down into the nitty picky things and if you want me to concede to the point that I don't believe he his innocent I will however innocent or not surely it is not a positive him being around the club and we should look to terminate in some sort ill put it this way if he doesn't find or refuses to go or we can't agree a deal with a team come the end of the transfer window. Would you keep him and pay his full wages and keep him with the kids or pay him off in full and get him out ( I'm assuming his contract is up at the end of the season) Look, I'm not disagreeing with you As I said in my other post (which I probably posted as you were typing, sorry! ), if Lewis isn't innocent then it's a matter of who blinks first, the club or Lewis. We know that 'face' is very important to the Taiwanese, and Chansiri won't want to be seen as showing weakness. If he accepts that it's best to offer to pay-off McGugan's contract in full, he could see that as him conceding defeat on the issue. It could also be a business gamble... hold onto him in the hope that we can recoup some money through an eventual transfer. I'm not gonna pretend to know what's going on, I'm just trying to offer explanations as to why we're in the situation we're now in. For what it's worth, I genuinely do agree with you, but I suspect Mr Chansiri isn't viewing it the same way as you or I. Don't want to lose face, and certainly don't want to lose a potential asset that could still garner some income just by letting it go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 And I too understand that showing weakness or not so, is a case within Thai culture. To be honest I think if we are all a little honest with ourselves no one wants to. I suppose we culturally try to operate or persieve ourselves to operate differently. Which is why I find the whole " I'll show you" as you put it ( not directing at you ) he who blinks first attitude a little short from professional employers. It's not worked let's move on as with the others if they don't get a club effectivly pay them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Could Bojan Krkic offer us something? Leaving Stoke. 14 goals in 19 full appearances for Barcelona. 14 goals in 41 full appearances for Stoke. Career total 40 goals in 91 full appearances. Other clubs included Ajax, Roma and Milan. Cost Stoke £3million if they want their money back. A lot cheaper than JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 He would be a great coup but I would think championship is not on his radar he will go abroad surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, fpowl said: He would be a great coup but I would think championship is not on his radar he will go abroad surely Espanyol maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Bojan is way too good for the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsidney Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 hours ago, pazowl55 said: Can't say I completely disagree with you, but if your earning between 10-20k a week which he clearly is and you can't even get yourself a squad number then you are letting everyone down. Bigtime. Can't always trust managers to be right. K.Lee couldn't buy a game under Dave Jones and most on here followed the manager saying he wasn't any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcx666 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 35 minutes ago, kingsidney said: Can't always trust managers to be right. K.Lee couldn't buy a game under Dave Jones and most on here followed the manager saying he wasn't any good. but again, this is now the thirs club in a row McGugans found himself in this situation, which says more about him than us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwl86 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Gray trusted McGugan to do a job for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcx666 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, DanOwl86 said: Gray trusted McGugan to do a job for us. Gray trusted McGUgan to do a job for us in a crap team. We moved on, LM doesnt seem to want to put the work in, as he hasnt in his last 2 clubs before us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbobbins Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 hours ago, StudentOwl said: Look, I'm not disagreeing with you As I said in my other post (which I probably posted as you were typing, sorry! ), if Lewis isn't innocent then it's a matter of who blinks first, the club or Lewis. We know that 'face' is very important to the Taiwanese, and Chansiri won't want to be seen as showing weakness. If he accepts that it's best to offer to pay-off McGugan's contract in full, he could see that as him conceding defeat on the issue. It could also be a business gamble... hold onto him in the hope that we can recoup some money through an eventual transfer. I'm not gonna pretend to know what's going on, I'm just trying to offer explanations as to why we're in the situation we're now in. For what it's worth, I genuinely do agree with you, but I suspect Mr Chansiri isn't viewing it the same way as you or I. Don't want to lose face, and certainly don't want to lose a potential asset that could still garner some income just by letting it go I thought a StudentOwl would know his geography :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlZfan84 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I can't wait to hear LM's take on the whole thing when he is moved on. If he's such a 'bad egg' I'm sure he'll have something to say. For what it's worth, I think the lad has been treated very, very harsh. Regardless of what he may or may not have done. It sure all coaches and players have fallouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggoisgod Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Mcgugans apparent refusal to play the number 10 role was so foolish. In a normal working environment refusing to undertake a reasonable request would be seen as a disciplinary case. What is even more confusing is why any footballer would ever refuse to play in the first team...just weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, meggoisgod said: Mcgugans apparent refusal to play the number 10 role was so foolish. In a normal working environment refusing to undertake a reasonable request would be seen as a disciplinary case. What is even more confusing is why any footballer would ever refuse to play in the first team...just weird Fernando did worse, and he wasn't banished to train with the kids until his contract ran out Seems unnecessarily vindictive to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Fernando did worse, and he wasn't banished to train with the kids until his contract ran out Seems unnecessarily vindictive to me It is a case of double-standards - but one is our best player, the other is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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