swfc261279 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have just had a telephone conversation with the Head of Licensing at Sheffield City Council who is also chair of the Safety Advisory Group. First thing to point out is that he is a Wednesdayite who attends most home games! SAG is a group that consists of representatives from the Fire, Ambulance and Police services as well as SWFC. Their title is slightly ambiguous because whilst they do give advice, their Chairman also has the power to enforce it - as the provider of the stadium safety licences he is able to close down the whole stadium if their advice is not followed. In terms of segregation for the derby, the decision was chiefly made by the Police on grounds of public safety. The safety license for the NW corner has expired and work is needed before it can be used (John Rutherford had already told us this but explained that the work could be carried out before the derby if the go ahead was given to use the corner). When I pressed about the difference seen in segregation policies adopted by other clubs in similar high profile games no real explanation could be given. What did come out in the conversation is that all safety related decisions regarding Hillsborough are still heavily influenced by events of 1989. No individual wants to put their name against anything that might come back to bite them, however remote the possibility. I asked why no explanation of the reasons for the decision had been given and he has promised to contact SWFC and ask them to do this. I also asked about the possibility of some supporter representation at future meetings of SAG and he will look into this. At least it has confirmed in my mind, the thing that most of us suspected was the real reason for the over the top approach at Hillsborough.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest intercity0wl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have just had a telephone conversation with the Head of Licensing at Sheffield City Council who is also chair of the Safety Advisory Group. First thing to point out is that he is a Wednesdayite who attends most home games! SAG is a group that consists of representatives from the Fire, Ambulance and Police services as well as SWFC. Their title is slightly ambiguous because whilst they do give advice, their Chairman also has the power to enforce it - as the provider of the stadium safety licences he is able to close down the whole stadium if their advice is not followed. In terms of segregation for the derby, the decision was chiefly made by the Police on grounds of public safety. The safety license for the NW corner has expired and work is needed before it can be used (John Rutherford had already told us this but explained that the work could be carried out before the derby if the go ahead was given to use the corner). When I pressed about the difference seen in segregation policies adopted by other clubs in similar high profile games no real explanation could be given. What did come out in the conversation is that all safety related decisions regarding Hillsborough are still heavily influenced by events of 1989. No individual wants to put their name against anything that might come back to bite them, however remote the possibility. I asked why no explanation of the reasons for the decision had been given and he has promised to contact SWFC and ask them to do this. I also asked about the possibility of some supporter representation at future meetings of SAG and he will look into this. At least it has confirmed in my mind, the thing that most of us suspected was the real reason for the over the top approach at Hillsborough.......... SYP just dont seem up to it do they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Hillsborough Disaster was an absolute tragedy and hope we never, ever seen scenes like that ever again. However, this was nearly 23 years ago. Health and Safety in football stadiums has changed dramatically since 1989 - all for the better. People who make these decisions - SAG and SYP - need to accept this and move on. Lessons have been learned from April 1989 - costly lessons nonetheless - and huge changes have resulted in a much, much safer environment to watch football. It is about time SAG and SYP moved on in terms of their seemingly over the top spproach at Hillsborough - especially for issues that have no relation to Hillsborough whatsoever, like segregation. PS thanks for the information and update, much appreciated. Edited February 7, 2012 by oh_weds_we_love_you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Sounds like a tacet admission by SYP that they are not fit for purpose when it comes to managing crowds. Interesting too that after all these years they have failed to come up with a training plan that gives useful guidance on crowd management of Hillsborough stadium. There is nothing at Hillsborough that was in place on that fatefull day that has n't been circumvented by the Taylor report and subsequently improved upon. Having SYP in a guardian role for our safety is hypocracy, they after all have to burden most of the blame. Lets forget the blame culture though, lets involve the people who know the old lady best with all her little foibles....That is the fans. The powers that be may scoff but the main reason fans were distraught with that terrible loss of life is that not one of them would have opened the main gate without first closing the tunnel double doors. The circumstances of 'that day' are far removed from the issue of ground segregatiion, the club need to challenge SAG and be willing to go for a court order should they wish to carry out their vielled threat. If needs be a Judicial review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdan2003 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 We might as well just bulldoze the west stand and start again in that case. We're going to have this problem for many years to come, unless SYP change their attitude. There are so many differences between now and then- a great big flip off fence was removed for a starters. This has nothing to do with safety, but has everything to do with poltics and PR- I bet they're poo poo scared of the Justice for 96 group kicking off at any moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nice work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) We might as well just bulldoze the west stand and start again in that case. We're going to have this problem for many years to come, unless SYP change their attitude. There are so many differences between now and then- a great big flip off fence was removed for a starters. This has nothing to do with safety, but has everything to do with poltics and PR- I bet they're poo poo scared of the Justice for 96 group kicking off at any moment... Sorry you are wrong there mate; There's so much that could and should have been done rather than just accepting the verdict of an unelected little bunch of almost self appointed little lick spitals. The SAG group are carryiing out duties on behalf of SCC who in turn represent the HSE on none industrial workplaces and buildings. If we are getting a raw deal from SAG then maybe our first port of call to air our dissatisfaction should be the HSE; Maybe the poster of this thread should speak to the HSE and ask them where an organisation should go if it disputes the reasoning given in a specific decision by one of it's Local Authority representatives. Edited February 7, 2012 by nevthelodgemoorowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have just had a telephone conversation with the Head of Licensing at Sheffield City Council who is also chair of the Safety Advisory Group. First thing to point out is that he is a Wednesdayite who attends most home games! SAG is a group that consists of representatives from the Fire, Ambulance and Police services as well as SWFC. Their title is slightly ambiguous because whilst they do give advice, their Chairman also has the power to enforce it - as the provider of the stadium safety licences he is able to close down the whole stadium if their advice is not followed. In terms of segregation for the derby, the decision was chiefly made by the Police on grounds of public safety. The safety license for the NW corner has expired and work is needed before it can be used (John Rutherford had already told us this but explained that the work could be carried out before the derby if the go ahead was given to use the corner). When I pressed about the difference seen in segregation policies adopted by other clubs in similar high profile games no real explanation could be given. What did come out in the conversation is that all safety related decisions regarding Hillsborough are still heavily influenced by events of 1989. No individual wants to put their name against anything that might come back to bite them, however remote the possibility. I asked why no explanation of the reasons for the decision had been given and he has promised to contact SWFC and ask them to do this. I also asked about the possibility of some supporter representation at future meetings of SAG and he will look into this. At least it has confirmed in my mind, the thing that most of us suspected was the real reason for the over the top approach at Hillsborough.......... Plus one from me mate. Now finish the job and ask the HSE where one should take a disputed reccomendation. Might get intereting this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Plus one from me mate. Now finish the job and ask the HSE where one should take a disputed reccomendation. Might get intereting this ! I would suspect that if for the Club to do if it so wishes. I doubt they would talk about this to a fan of the Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevthelodgemoorowl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To Admin, could we have this topic pinned please.....It's not just for the Derby but impacts on the clubs business plan going forward. This is far too big an issue to let slide, when I put my shillings into Derek Dooley development fund I did n't for one moment think that oour stand would lead to thousands of Wednesday fans being denied the opportunity to see their beloved Wednesday. Many of those devoted fans that dutifully paid their shillings are no longer with us; Never the less we owe it to their memory to ensure that their belief in a modern stadium for a majority of fans is not tarnished. None more so than the Godfather of the old lady, Eric Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebneeb Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What is frustrating, is we have had complete sell outs since 1989 that have passed without problems. It's only recently that it seems to have become an issue again. If there are problems on the day, they will be outside the ground, not inside the ground. Any problems are also likely to happen either directly caused by SYP, or due to them being unable to do their job correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nice one. Now we - or the club - need to understand how the issues outstanding from 1989 can be resolved. They have to be resolved, ideally before we reach the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What is frustrating, is we have had complete sell outs since 1989 that have passed without problems. It's only recently that it seems to have become an issue again. If there are problems on the day, they will be outside the ground, not inside the ground. Any problems are also likely to happen either directly caused by SYP, or due to them being unable to do their job correctly. since 89 there have been 2 FA cup semi finals. 3 matches at euro 96. a league cup final replay with no problems at any of them,so why so jittery at the prospect of big matches now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerinako Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So SYP don't want to handle such crowds. Do we get a reduction on the invoice then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acquiescefc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 its like theyll never call a ship the Titanic again. kind of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Briscoe Inferno Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 In terms of segregation for the derby, the decision was chiefly made by the Police on grounds of public safety. When I pressed about the difference seen in segregation policies adopted by other clubs in similar high profile games no real explanation could be given. What did come out in the conversation is that all safety related decisions regarding Hillsborough are still heavily influenced by events of 1989. No individual wants to put their name against anything that might come back to bite them, however remote the possibility. This is the problem of these unelected public bodies - I suspect the only way to resolve this issue will be through the courts. The SAG and SYP will then have to present evidence for why they have taken this antiquated and prejudiced stance in the face of all the improvements undertaken since the Taylor Report. Effectively the SAG have blighted & condemned the stadium for large events and therefore should reduce the ground capacity as a result and amend the safety certificate accordingly. As many have said, this will result in a huge amount of lost revenue in future years unless these people are forced to justify their inconsistent behaviour. If SWFC are successful in their application to the courts, the SAG then have someone else to blame if they are unwilling to accept their responsibility to all parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Load of cobblers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No wonder we are struggling with transfers and stuff , thanks Sag for denying us earning copius amounts of money to help put this club right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ive often wondered the fans were treat after the Heyshall dissaster do they have to suffer as we do , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandwhitematt Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 One of the most interesting points made is that there has been numerous occasions since 1989 that we have used all the stadium with no real issue, so like someone has said before, why all of a sudden is it an issue again? It appears quite sick to me that these groups and the elements that make up them are hiding behind 1989 and using this as the reason, when it seems clear as day that the real reason is that they are incapable of doing the jobs they are paid for. The Club stands to lose significant revenue from not being able to use the NW-Corner, and have said that if they were allowed they would get it up to scratch and use if for the Derby. They are obviously getting nowhere behind the scenes dealing with these, so have it out in the media, and send an open letter to the Star asking questions such as those asked in this thread, particularly for me: "Why are the SAG and SYP shamefully and sickeningly hiding behind 1989 when there have been numerous games since that dreadful day where all the stadium has been used to no ill-effect, and what are the true reasons they won't allow SWFC to use the NW-Corner?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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