DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL

[Lincowl]

some intresting thoughts on here too http://www.pne-online.net/forum/showthread.php?57423-Meanwhile-less-than-40-miles-away........

Absolutely typical PNE fan reactions to Irvine from everything I've seen. The few who semi-defend him are subject to ridicule.

As soon as Lee admits his mistake in appointing Irvine there can be a more honest dialogue in concentrating solely on the board issues from there on...

[BRADDAZ]

I'm not sure in what context you mean these questions, and i know i'm not Lee ...but i'd be interested to hear what people would do if their company went boobies up in the way Wednesday have, wage was under threat, future at the company was in jepordy, and generally the morale around the place was a bit poo poo..

Would this affect your morale? affect your ability to focus on your work?

End of the day, they are human, they have homes, family, and bills to pay...so, i can see where LS is coming from. I'm sure it's had a negative impact on the players, however, this doesn't mean Irvine is 100% blameless...as i said earlier, his team selections are frustrating.

The boardroom poo poo is going to have an affect, no one can deny it.

I have seen enough effort and will to win over the last five games to show me that the players still care, still want to go out and win a game of football though. But what i've also seen is players playing who shouldn't be, players played out of position, players held back from expressing themselves, players just kicking the bloody football into a corner or down the throats of big meathead defenders. Its dire.

All in all I blame Irvines way of management for the slump (the board to a lesser degree). We've been found out for what we are. A one dimensional, slow, one paced, long ball team. Easy to set up and play against, even for League One teams (no disrespect).

Edited September 29, 2010 by BRADDAZ

[33]

Anyway, this shots & shots on target ratio...?

I think statistics can be used in many ways to get over a point of view.

[RobHowe]

Anyway, this shots & shots on target ratio...?

I think statistics can be used in many ways to get over a point of view.

7 out of 10 people say that's not true.

[pgmetcalf]

The boardroom poo poo is going to have an affect, no one can deny it.

I have seen enough effort and will to win over the last five games to show me that the players still care, still want to go out and win a game of football though. But what i've also seen is players playing who shouldn't be, players played out of position, players held back from expressing themselves, players just kicking the bloody football into a corner or down the throats of big meathead defenders. Its dire.

All in all I blame Irvines way of management for the slump (the board to a lesser degree). We've been found out for what we are. A one dimensional, slow, one paced, long ball team. Easy to set up and play against, even for League One teams (no disrespect).

I listened to the phone in after last night's game and AI said something like in training you can tell them to get the ball down and pass but once they cross the cross (the pitch) it's very hard for them (players) to do what they are told. Then Morrison comes on and says we did what the manager told us to do. It seems to me that there's some decrepency there. Personally, I don't think the manager and training staff have a clue what they are doing, maybe it runs deeper than that.

[Guest oliver666]

I am with Lee , I have full faith that once the finances are sorted our tactical genius will have us rising us the league like Wayne Rooney up a hooker.

Clearly Dougal Irvine has proved in his tenure that he can prepare teams to play attacking , succesful football as was proved in the 12 min spell against Hartlepool ( Please note for these 12 mins players were beiong paid and were happy as the coach and pizza were on time)

If that was to be the case, then all the current squad, management and coaching staff want sacking immediately. They are paid to perform on the f**king pitch not worry about behind the scenes problems, thats why SWFC employ the likes of Wilkinson and Parker. This excuse is wearing a bit thin and is nothing more than a smoke screen for ineffective shocking football which loyal fans paying THEIR money week in week out are doing. Like a few on here.

[Guest madforitowl]

If that was to be the case, then all the current squad, management and coaching staff want sacking immediately. They are paid to perform on the f**king pitch not worry about behind the scenes problems, thats why SWFC employ the likes of Wilkinson and Parker. This excuse is wearing a bit thin and is nothing more than a smoke screen for ineffective shocking football which loyal fans paying THEIR money week in week out are doing. Like a few on here.

At last some sense spoke

[Bluesteel]

They were rubbish. Sflaphorpe away was a classic example. The irony being the contrast between our mental approach that day and when we went back in the cup.

The were two drivers to pre season though [1] the focus was primarily fitness building relationships woth a lit of new players and [2] as I have already confirmed the players and staff were disrupted by the way the lee grant deal was bodged and what that said about the winding up order (that we did not know about, but they will have done because of the transfer embargo, at that point) and what it said about the "American deal that was going to close by the end of august".

I thought we played good stuff but more importantly showed determination and resilience and applied ourselves well pre Brentford.

But I have made peace with what constitutes football at this level (players dont have the same attitude, managers can no longer dictate like they used to be able to, noone dominates fir 90mins and a typical game is more about mistakes than creating as most teams do not have lots of very good players, and just as importantly I am not comparing to the early nineties.

Everyone has a right to see things about style diffrently but our issue has not been style its mentality and there is a clearly identifiable root cause to that problem and it ain't a boring, dour, honest, hardworking, well respected by his peers Scotsman that most Preston players and fans would welcome back tomorrow.

Yes I appointed him and no I am not defending him just because I appointed him, I asking you guys to act like grown men that can think and to realise that your energiies are misdirected and it's making things worse whether we go into admin or get a deal done. I am saying this for the same reason I have done everything this past few years because I care about our club.

One last time, I am not saying the players and staff are blameless and should get off scott free, but I am saying that the witchhunt is misdirected and it's damaging things further.

Our approach should have been "right we have been shafted by the board (again) now let's pull together and dig our way out of this, oi you lot in the dessing room we are gonna cut you some slack but you need to get ontop of this or things will not turn out good for any of us, oi you lot in the boardroom unless you can demonstrate that you are capable of establishing our trust and executing on anything get out now".

What have so many of us done??? "tommy spurr you are poo poo", "fellow fan I don't think you should protest against the stooges", "wednesdayite are crap", and now despite everything we know about how you blow up a football team and seeing it be done thus past few weeks it's "Irvine out".

I truly despair.

Regards

Lee

Fair enough, I agree with 90% of that. I do think it would be in our best interests to get behind the team, it always is. Although, I dont think its impossible for the players to pull together during this period too, there is little chance of them actually being out of pocket and until were actually in administration theres no point them acting as if we are. A year ago when the recession hit my company announced there were redundancies to be made and everyone was worried, if anything it made everyone work harder even if morale was low.

There doesnt appear to be much we can do about the boardroom though if the three board members are no longer in control, we just have to wait and see what falls onto the table, an investor or a points deduction.

[Guest oliver666]

But the are already out, so we are knocking on an open door.

We are also told by HW that the demands the loan note holders are making are not excessive and take into consideration the financial situation at the club.

Lee Strafford says this is not the case and the loan note holders are making excessive demands.

We need to know the truth on this matter before we can start protesting don't you think?

In the meantime, Irvine has shown nothing since he arrived to make us believe he can turn this areound. The main priority in my eyes is to get rid of him.

According to Lee, HW is the only man 'upstairs' who is honourable. On that basis we have to believe in what HW says and not LS

[kingsidney]

Lee you are the biggest fud spreader on owlstalk. It's every bodys fault bar yours. It's the board, the players don't try, the dog set my home work. Wah wah, do you really think you are helping the situation by antagonizing the fans?

Even if the fact as you say the player stopped trying is true, then that's still AI's job to get them out of their funk and motivate them, a job which he is failing at miserably, his latest interview sums the mans mind set up perfectly as he is happy with a point at home to Oldham in a match where the couldn't muster a meaningful shot.

[since59owe]

Just thought I'd look up the statistics on Wednesday's goal attempts and see how they compare with other teams in the division to see if it backs up our collective opinion that we are too defensive. Looking up games one at a time is a painstaking business so I decided to restrict it to just the top and bottom three teams. Only 5 teams in League One have scored fewer goals than us, and two of them have beaten us in the last couple of weeks.

TOTAL GOAL ATTEMPTS / OF WHICH, ON TARGET

Brighton...................112/63

Bournemouth............85/43

Carlisle....................102/56

Walsall.....................78/40

Dag & Redbridge......116/55

Brentford.................103/49

WEDNESDAY............72/37

I wonder if we really are the team that carries least threat?

If this is true we do.

[Guest Sheff Owl]

When Alan took over -

'Alan Irvine admitted he has put his reputation on the line by becoming Sheffield Wednesday’s 11th manager in 15 years.'

On his appointment - (would love to know who the other candidates were)

'Following a thorough recruitment process, involving a number of very strong candidates for the manager's position, the club is confident that they have secured the best possible candidate to drive forward Sheffield Wednesday's footballing operations, both out of our short term position and also in the longer term.'

[since59owe]

When Alan took over -

'Alan Irvine admitted he has put his reputation on the line by becoming Sheffield Wednesday's 11th manager in 15 years.'

On his appointment - (would love to know who the other candidates were)

'Following a thorough recruitment process, involving a number of very strong candidates for the manager's position, the club is confident that they have secured the best possible candidate to drive forward Sheffield Wednesday's footballing operations, both out of our short term position and also in the longer term.'

What reputation, he was unemployed at the time having been sacked so his reputation was set at nought !

[Guest gringo69]

So all the players who signed AND stayed on in the summer, plus their agents, must be living under rocks covered in moss if they were unaware of the clubs finances.

How long has the public search for investment been going on too. How often has the debt level been reported and for how long. Were they not already aware of the oct/nov09 black hole (when most of them were here). So SWFC being in the financial manure is suddenly NEWS to use as an excuse for garbage on the pitch ???????

Do me a massive favour and take a running jump in the Don. "The players and management have to take responsiblilty for their actions" so says the missus !

[Guest britney]

What is Lee Strafford doing on this forum. He does not care about Sheffield Wednesday and is just on here patronising people who he considers

inferior. Who does he think he is calling loyal fans of this club morons for making valid points about the dross they are paying their money to see week in week out?

I have spoken to someone who worked for him at Plusnet and he had no idea of his interest in football. Why is that? Everyone I work with knows I support Sheffield Wednesday,

and I assume most people on here can say the same. It must have been nice to have a free ride at our clubs expense and live the dream, problem is he has made a mess and

we are still paying for it. I can understand him sticking up for Irvine, because having read and listened to his self important drivel for the last couple of years I have come to realise

he is never wrong.

[Lee Strafford]

What is Lee Strafford doing on this forum. He does not care about Sheffield Wednesday and is just on here patronising people who he considers

inferior. Who does he think he is calling loyal fans of this club morons for making valid points about the dross they are paying their money to see week in week out?

I have spoken to someone who worked for him at Plusnet and he had no idea of his interest in football. Why is that? Everyone I work with knows I support Sheffield Wednesday,

and I assume most people on here can say the same. It must have been nice to have a free ride at our clubs expense and live the dream, problem is he has made a mess and

we are still paying for it. I can understand him sticking up for Irvine, because having read and listened to his self important drivel for the last couple of years I have come to realise

he is never wrong.

#

Good evening David (Ben Allens gimpy friend).

Perhaps you could ask your friend why my office was full of SWFC memorabilia..............

PS - Don't choke on the ball gag dude.

Regards

Lee

[Guest bartos]

Unbelievable, most of you can't see the wood for the trees. To suggest our current situation doesn't affect coaching team & squad is ridiculous. It's not just the uncertainty but the entire atmosphere around the place at the minute, not just in the ground on matchdays but everywhere they go.

Anyway I'm not here to make excuses as there are things all involved could be doing better including ourselves.

One thing is for sure and that's that AI and the team will get it right before this sorry state ends.

I'm working Saturday, genuinely gutted I can't make it as we are due a win

Edited September 30, 2010 by bartos

[mcmigo]

#

Good evening David (Ben Allens gimpy friend).

Perhaps you could ask your friend why my office was full of SWFC memorabilia..............

PS - Don't choke on the ball gag dude.

Regards

Lee

:laugh:

[mcmigo]

I have just read through this thread and I have a foot in both camps so to speak.

No doubt the Boardroom has wrecked the club on the pitch as well, just as it did in Oct of last year when our mid table manager went to being a bottom of the table manager almost overnight as the 1.5mm broke.

This season I agree with LS that the same has happened. Note that I park the responsibility for this at the door of Nick Parker and Howard Wilkinson, who did not sell players when we needed to (Tudgay was a must sell) and sanctioned building a squad we could not afford over the summer. This was a gamble that can only be justified if investment was imminent and clearly it was not.

Outside of the above however I would question the retention of Alan Irvine and my thought process is no different to that LS used when he sacked Laws. Outside even of Boardroom issues I simply do not believe AI is a good manager.

[aussieowl87]

thanks for dredging up the statistics, though it seems 97% of the posters have forgotten the initial topic