Lee Strafford

[TheBoyBeevers]

I don't get these threads at all...they normally follow a similar pattern.

Someone starts a thread saying how great Lee is.

A few people say that he's actually not that good and make some valid points, and some ridiculous points as well.

The anti-LS's get abused, and then in response start to make crazy and unbelievably stupid statements like LS should resign etc etc.

LS joins the thread and is clearly a bit pissed off that the same arguments are getting done to death everytime he leaves Owlstalk for 2 minutes.

Some nobhead waits for a few pages before posting a summary of the (non) events of the thread so far.

Then 15 more pages of poo .

The bottom line is, LS isn't perfect, some of his posts on here and FB make me cringe. That said, you only have to look a the 2 previous incumbents running the club just to see how flipping lucky we are to have a Wednesday fan with some business sense running the club. Those 2 would be:

1) Kaven Walker (Please feel free you make your own minds up on having KW as figurehead of the club- i'm not posting mine for legal reasons.)

2) Dave Allen (Ditto.)

You want LS out you say? Well nominate a sutible possible replacement and then we'll talk... the 18 months we spent without a chairman after DA left suggests that it isn't actually a popular job (probably you flipping muppets who are calling for his head are to blame for that.)

The criticism of LS's ''buy your tickets' message which goes out of FB, RS, Owlstalk etc etc? He's not having a bitchy go at us for not buying tickets, he's absolutely BEGGING us to buy them for the good of the club- unfortunately (and it's clear from your intelligent posts that you DO get him SC OWL) many people still don't seem to understand that the 'results will increase the crowds' argument is illogical....LS clearly hopes that the more he repeats the message, the more it will be drummed into people's brain.

Lee, i'm not going to get on my knees and worship you (not that you'd want that) but a flipping blind man could see how much good work you and NP have done since you've come in from top to bottom of the club an i give you huuuuuuge credit for that. If Laws' hadn't have completely lost the plot and we were in mid-table where we were all expecting, you'd still be the best thing since sliced bread amongst the fanbase. As it is, the fickleness of football fans dictate that you're in the firing line for the under performing team, and tbh you've got to take it on the chin because, to use the old cliche, 'that's football'. Most of your written posts make me cringe as i'v said, and this is the only real complaint i'v got about you tbh...i know you're doing it with good intentions, but if you take a step back, your message tends to get confused and warped when you communicate through here or FB...which is a shame because when you're on RS you come across so well.

Anyway, i'm reyt tired.

[Jennz]

I don't get these threads at all...they normally follow a similar pattern.

Someone starts a thread saying how great Lee is.

A few people say that he's actually not that good and make some valid points, and some ridiculous points as well.

The anti-LS's get abused, and then in response start to make crazy and unbelievably stupid statements like LS should resign etc etc.

LS joins the thread and is clearly a bit pissed off that the same arguments are getting done to death everytime he leaves Owlstalk for 2 minutes.

Some nobhead waits for a few pages before posting a summary of the (non) events of the thread so far.

Then 15 more pages of poo .

The bottom line is, LS isn't perfect, some of his posts on here and FB make me cringe. That said, you only have to look a the 2 previous incumbents running the club just to see how flipping lucky we are to have a Wednesday fan with some business sense running the club. Those 2 would be:

1) Kaven Walker (Please feel free you make your own minds up on having KW as figurehead of the club- i'm not posting mine for legal reasons.)

2) Dave Allen (Ditto.)

You want LS out you say? Well nominate a sutible possible replacement and then we'll talk... the 18 months we spent without a chairman after DA left suggests that it isn't actually a popular job (probably you flipping muppets who are calling for his head are to blame for that.)

The criticism of LS's ''buy your tickets' message which goes out of FB, RS, Owlstalk etc etc? He's not having a bitchy go at us for not buying tickets, he's absolutely BEGGING us to buy them for the good of the club- unfortunately (and it's clear from your intelligent posts that you DO get him SC OWL) many people still don't seem to understand that the 'results will increase the crowds' argument is illogical....LS clearly hopes that the more he repeats the message, the more it will be drummed into people's brain.

Lee, i'm not going to get on my knees and worship you (not that you'd want that) but a flipping blind man could see how much good work you and NP have done since you've come in from top to bottom of the club an i give you huuuuuuge credit for that. If Laws' hadn't have completely lost the plot and we were in mid-table where we were all expecting, you'd still be the best thing since sliced bread amongst the fanbase. As it is, the fickleness of football fans dictate that you're in the firing line for the under performing team, and tbh you've got to take it on the chin because, to use the old cliche, 'that's football'. Most of your written posts make me cringe as i'v said, and this is the only real complaint i'v got about you tbh...i know you're doing it with good intentions, but if you take a step back, your message tends to get confused and warped when you communicate through here or FB...which is a shame because when you're on RS you come across so well.

Anyway, i'm reyt tired.

Agree with most of what you say but how can the bit I've highlighted be illogical...........it's happened throughout football for decades, consistent better results & performances DOES increase attendance.....this isn't even an opinion, it's a fact proven over many years at every club.

Totally agree with your views on Lee's written word.............very poor & would serve him well to completely give it a rest.........the way he comes across on radio or video on the OS couldn't be more of a contrast, very very good........more of that Lee please, give the forums away, they hurt you big time.

[Lee Strafford]

Agree with most of what you say but how can the bit I've highlighted be illogical...........it's happened throughout football for decades, consistent better results & performances DOES increase attendance.....this isn't even an opinion, it's a fact proven over many years at every club.

Totally agree with your views on Lee's written word.............very poor & would serve him well to completely give it a rest.........the way he comes across on radio or video on the OS couldn't be more of a contrast, very very good........more of that Lee please, give the forums away, they hurt you big time.

Over the 15 years you are perfectly correct but this has actually changed completely in the past 5 years or so as football results are now driven primarily by the amount spent on squad wages.

The evidence of this is in plain sight and the sooner we all make peace with this the sooner we will all commit to putting as much money into the club as we can all afford so that we can push our club to catch up with most every other clubs in this division in terms of football budget.

Regards

Lee

[shabbyhouse]

Over the 15 years you are perfectly correct but this has actually changed completely in the past 5 years or so as football results are now driven primarily by the amount spent on squad wages.

The evidence of this is in plain sight and the sooner we all make peace with this the sooner we will all commit to putting as much money into the club as we can all afford so that we can push our club to catch up with most every other clubs in this division in terms of football budget.

Regards

Lee

We gravitate towards a source of pleasure and are repulsed by a source of pain. It's what keeps animals alive. But we're alone as a species in being able to think long term and bear the pain to turn it into a source of pleasure at some future stage.

That means misery in the interim, and doing the one thing that is counter-intuitive: getting even more closely involved with, and committed to the source of pain: our club. No-one can say this season has been fun, but the pain's mitigated by a whole host of other stuff that's gone on in the bigger SWFC picture, and whilst there may yet be more disappointment to come in the form of relegation, it's just a part of the club's rehabilitation and recuperation.

It's time for us all to get close. Wednesday needs us.

Edited March 24, 2010 by shabbyhouse

[mcmigo]

Over the 15 years you are perfectly correct but this has actually changed completely in the past 5 years or so as football results are now driven primarily by the amount spent on squad wages.

The evidence of this is in plain sight and the sooner we all make peace with this the sooner we will all commit to putting as much money into the club as we can all afford so that we can push our club to catch up with most every other clubs in this division in terms of football budget.

Regards

Lee

The best thing you could do for this club is sack off the investment process, cut the first team squad salaries back down to 4 million and spend what we have left on finally sorting out our academy to produce some real talent. 6 or 7 million on wages and fees for players we sign isn't enough to take us up. Preston are north of 10 million and are mid table at best. The only way we are going to succeed on a sustainable basis is from the academy, and signing the occasional young gem as Turner did.

It is a long term game.

[Guest JonR]

Can i just say Lee im sorry that i started this thread i was naive to think it wouldnt end up like this. if its any consulation shortly after going to bed after creating this monster i dislocated my shoulder and spent all night in A&E

[Mr Farrell]

Can i just say Lee im sorry that i started this thread i was naive to think it wouldnt end up like this. if its any consulation shortly after going to bed after creating this monster i dislocated my shoulder and spent all night in A&E

Let that be a lesson to you young man.

[longreach]

The best thing you could do for this club is sack off the investment process, cut the first team squad salaries back down to 4 million and spend what we have left on finally sorting out our academy to produce some real talent. 6 or 7 million on wages and fees for players we sign isn't enough to take us up. Preston are north of 10 million and are mid table at best. The only way we are going to succeed on a sustainable basis is from the academy, and signing the occasional young gem as Turner did.

It is a long term game.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't this in essence what plan "B" is if investment fails? Why should we back off with investment when all it will do is accelerate the process? Sorry mate, can't see your logic

[i used to be sc_owl]

I take it you were someone I responded to that was being abusive or had a hard time accepting that your points were wrong or just plain daft??

&

I don't suppose the message that you were shown were presented to you alongside the abuse and idiocy that created my far more controlled and far less offensive responses?

Regards

Lee

Nope. I was in no way abusive.

Also, I was forwarded a whole conversation between you and a friend of mine and I couldn't believe what I was reading. It was wholly unprofessional, aggressive and confrontational. The only person being abusive was you.

[i used to be sc_owl]

You have just deliberately spun the actual conversation to make me look bad. Thanx

Thanks also for telling me on here that the way you engaged me was actually influenced by crap you had heard from some other fans that really have no clue what I am like and what I am actually saying and doing.

Let me give you all and example of what the real issue is and it is screaming throughout this thread. I have had exactly the same approach since you first heard of me and right now I am mr unpopular but wait we are in a relegation battle and we have all been conditioned to kick the crap out of the club and its chairman this past 15 years or so instead of pulling together and being positive in difficult times, but wait oh look what is happening.........

Come on guys - stop with the negativity and poison - IT REALLY IS EFFECTING EVERYTHING.

Regards

Lee

Just seen this response as well.

Let me make one thing clear - I have only had very limited conversations with you in the past. The reason for that is I see how you respond to other people who make rational and reasoned points that disagree with you. I generally can't be arsed to argue/debate with people who will not listen. When I brought this up with a friend of mine back in Sheffield it was they who showed me a conversation between the two of you. Let's just say I was left bewildered by your attitude.

[bigrbuk]

Yawn. All of it, just Yawn.

[longreach]

Just seen this response as well.

Let me make one thing clear - I have only had very limited conversations with you in the past. The reason for that is I see how you respond to other people who make rational and reasoned points that disagree with you. I generally can't be arsed to argue/debate with people who will not listen. When I brought this up with a friend of mine back in Sheffield it was they who showed me a conversation between the two of you. Let's just say I was left bewildered by your attitude.

FFS take this to PMs This is obviously a private spat that no one else is really interested in reading.

Edited March 24, 2010 by longreach

[RobHowe]

Lee – I hate to perpetuate this debate further, but there are a few points that I have to take issue with.

I am not dong the driving apart - its people like you who I spent time with and at the end of which you told me to my face that you were now supportive and would be so going forward and would actively encourage other Wednesdayites to join the rebuilding process, and yet all I see you do on here is whisper ever so softly "he is a bad un, he is no better than the rest before him".............you are the one doing the driving apart Rob.

Lee – here we go again – I fail to see how me, and people like me, expressing an opinion on an internet forum is driving the fans apart. In my opinion you place too much store in what is written on here – 90% of which (my posts included) is just nonsense.

As for telling you to your face that I was now supportive – Lee I have never not been supportive. I appreciate that you won’t remember every conversation you’ve had with people (who can?!) but I know that I never said that when we met. I was already part of the rebuilding process and will continue to be so regardless of who is at the helm.

Unfortunately it is merely your perception of my opinion or what you believe I am trying to ‘achieve’ that has led you to think I, and people like me, are not supportive.

In fact if you remember what I said you’ll recall that my ‘return to the fold’ – for want of a better expression – began before your appointment as Chairman. And you also said that you understood and accepted the family reasons why I haven’t bought a ST again. However once my boys are old enough to come with me (and that’s assuming they’ll want to!) I will. But right now it unfortunately doesn’t work for me.

That said, I ‘get the message’ and always have done – as do 99% of Wednesdayites. And if you recall this was one of the issues we talked about at length and agreed to disagree on, as I know you think that there are still a great many Wednesdayites that haven’t ‘got the message’. But as I said to you, I think that all bar a tiny minority have got it – the problem is that this doesn’t necessarily translate to them buying in financially in terms of season tickets or matchday tickets in the numbers that you’d hoped because of the myriad of reasons that we also discussed.

But as for whispering softly, please!

As I’ve said to you before, I am no one special. My voice is one amongst a sea of thousands. My opinions count no more and no less than anyone else’s. I’m merely expressing them as a fan, who’s supporting his club as best he can – ok, nowhere near to the levels that he had done previously.

However what I believe is driving the fans apart – and I believe that this has been partially created indirectly (though not necessarily deliberately) through your actions – is the whole TrueFan™ debate and the argument that if you’ve not bought a season ticket or are not pouring your last penny into the club then you’re not a proper Wednesdayite.

Do you not think that there is a divide between the fan base on this issue and that this is in fact widening?

I am 100% happy that I have never "given it back" as I have never returned in kind with even the most offensive abuse have received. I have only ever held complete idiots or abusive people accountable to their abuse or idiocy and done so using nowhere near the same aggression or tone that I have been faced with.

I would happily be held accountable to this statement even if it means that every single thing I have typed is dissected and reviewed in public so long as it is done so in the full context of that which I have responded to.

I don’t think anyone would take issue with you on any personal or threatening abuse – but as I’ve said before, rise above it, you’re Chairman of our football club FFS!

And I fail to see why you have to stoop to the level that those people operate. And in any case, how many of them are truly Wednesdayites?

However, the point I was making was related to the manner in which you have – but to be fair to you not as much in recent months – engaged with people who don’t share your views or opinions.

For example - the night you said on here that a mate of mine ‘must be a Bl*de’ because he didn’t agree with the plans for redeveloping the ground. As a consequence of the aggressive nature of your response and his subsequent defence, he was rounded on by other posters. This boiled over into a bit of a witch-hunt to ‘out’ this Bl*de who actually happens to be a long-standing season ticket holder in the North Stand.

This example is just one of many, but like I said it does seem as though this approach has wisely been tempered in recent months.

Again I have gotta ask what good is coming from the poisonous attitude pervading through this thread?

Regards

Lee

Lee – again – people are merely expressing their opinions.

[i used to be sc_owl]

FFS take this to PMs This is obviously a private spat that no one else is really interested in reading.

It didn't start that way though did it? What's the title of the thread? I merely voiced an opinion and have backed it up. No one is forcing you to read it - are they?

[mcmigo]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't this in essence what plan "B" is if investment fails? Why should we back off with investment when all it will do is accelerate the process? Sorry mate, can't see your logic

The 'investment' thing is holding us back and has done now for an age.

It causes the club and the fanbase uncertainty and stress and makes it impossible for us to have a solid, long term strategy based on the here and now rather than speculation.

Forget it all and lets just crack on - slash the wage bill, sort out the acedemy and lets look 5 years from now and not all about tomorrow.

[longreach]

The 'investment' thing is holding us back and has done now for an age.

It causes the club and the fanbase uncertainty and stress and makes it impossible for us to have a solid, long term strategy based on the here and now rather than speculation.

Forget it all and lets just crack on - slash the wage bill, sort out the acedemy and lets look 5 years from now and not all about tomorrow.

How can it be holding us back?? LS has rtated that the process of recovery is quicker with investmen and slower without. Either way recovery is on the way.

Infighting on here has no bearing on any fan uncertainty (well perhaps to only to a dozen or so).

Sounds to me you don't want any investment....am I wrong?

[i used to be sc_owl]

I don't get these threads at all...they normally follow a similar pattern.

Someone starts a thread saying how great Lee is.

A few people say that he's actually not that good and make some valid points, and some ridiculous points as well.

The anti-LS's get abused, and then in response start to make crazy and unbelievably stupid statements like LS should resign etc etc.

LS joins the thread and is clearly a bit pissed off that the same arguments are getting done to death everytime he leaves Owlstalk for 2 minutes.

Some nobhead waits for a few pages before posting a summary of the (non) events of the thread so far.

Then 15 more pages of poo .

The bottom line is, LS isn't perfect, some of his posts on here and FB make me cringe. That said, you only have to look a the 2 previous incumbents running the club just to see how flipping lucky we are to have a Wednesday fan with some business sense running the club. Those 2 would be:

1) Kaven Walker (Please feel free you make your own minds up on having KW as figurehead of the club- i'm not posting mine for legal reasons.)

2) Dave Allen (Ditto.)

You want LS out you say? Well nominate a sutible possible replacement and then we'll talk... the 18 months we spent without a chairman after DA left suggests that it isn't actually a popular job (probably you flipping muppets who are calling for his head are to blame for that.)

The criticism of LS's ''buy your tickets' message which goes out of FB, RS, Owlstalk etc etc? He's not having a bitchy go at us for not buying tickets, he's absolutely BEGGING us to buy them for the good of the club- unfortunately (and it's clear from your intelligent posts that you DO get him SC OWL) many people still don't seem to understand that the 'results will increase the crowds' argument is illogical....LS clearly hopes that the more he repeats the message, the more it will be drummed into people's brain.

Lee, i'm not going to get on my knees and worship you (not that you'd want that) but a flipping blind man could see how much good work you and NP have done since you've come in from top to bottom of the club an i give you huuuuuuge credit for that. If Laws' hadn't have completely lost the plot and we were in mid-table where we were all expecting, you'd still be the best thing since sliced bread amongst the fanbase. As it is, the fickleness of football fans dictate that you're in the firing line for the under performing team, and tbh you've got to take it on the chin because, to use the old cliche, 'that's football'. Most of your written posts make me cringe as i'v said, and this is the only real complaint i'v got about you tbh...i know you're doing it with good intentions, but if you take a step back, your message tends to get confused and warped when you communicate through here or FB...which is a shame because when you're on RS you come across so well.

Anyway, i'm reyt tired.

Good post mate.

Just to make it clear, because it may be easy for this point to be lost in the middle of my criticism - I think Lee Strafford has done a lot of good at the club and I think we are progressing off the pitch. My only issue is with his style of communication.

[ReadingOwl]

[quote name='RobHowe' date='24 March 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1269425088' post='2380510'

However what I believe is driving the fans apart – and I believe that this has been partially created indirectly (though not necessarily deliberately) through your actions – is the whole TrueFan™ debate and the argument that if you’ve not bought a season ticket or are not pouring your last penny into the club then you’re not a proper Wednesdayite.

Can I just say Rob, that I always read your posts with interest. They are well reasoned, tempered and interesting (sorry if that sounds sycophantic on this forum - not the done thing?).

But, can I give you my perspective? I have been a fan for a long, long time - but not a TrueFan so to speak. Ironically, I tend to give more time to the club when they are in trouble - not when we are doing well. Seems a bit perverse, a bit like a call to arms.

As I am recent to this site, I too took exception to all this TrueFan debate, But now, I genuinely think it all a bit of fun. It's just a bit of knock about and nonesense. Something to discuss betwenn Saturday's and get a raise out of some of 'em'.

Anyone with reasoning, doesn't condemn them (me) who cannot committ themselves to the Club fulltime. Most of them will have been there, too, I suspect, or, are young and don't have responsibilities (lucky them).

Thus, to conclude,

1. Don't beat yourself up over it (I don't)

2. PartTimers views are as valid as anyone else's

3. I don't think the TrueFan debate is keeping the 'part timers away'. True PartTimers will still attend when needed, if they can. I do.

4. The TrueFan thing, IMO, is just a bit of fun - If it isn't for some, then too bad on them, I say.

See everyone on Saturday?

I'll be glad when they are doing well again and I can have some time off, and relax!

UTO and Keep the Faith

(But I know I don't have to tell you that).

Edited March 24, 2010 by ReadingOwl

[Owlsfan]

Good post mate.

Just to make it clear, because it may be easy for this point to be lost in the middle of my criticism - I think Lee Strafford has done a lot of good at the club and I think we are progressing off the pitch. My only issue is with his style of communication.

I'd go further than that (aside one or two issues about tickets etc), it's communication only in certain areas. In radio interviews, and in that phone in on RS a few weeks back, he could've sold snow to the eskimos.

I haven't seen any of this stuff on Facebook or wherever, and I suspect it was probably blown out of proportion. Thats the thing about the internet though, people will just go around looking for a reaction, or some outrage. I think it's calmed down on here recently now that Lee's seemingly moderating the amount that he posts, which means far less poo poo stirring from people looking for a reaction.

[Plonk]

Ls is many things. In my opinion he is

1.the most forward thinking chairman this club has had in my lifetime

2.The first one to have open and honest communications with the fans (not only on here but in the press and in person)

3.Him and NP are the best chance this clubs had of sorting out the financial rumbleup of past incumbents.

4. not the first (and wont be the last) to make mistakes.

Now is the time to stop the sniping and back him and the club to the hilt. i wasnt going to renew my st. Purely because of the lack of passion shown by the team this season. But after reading this I'm going to. Some of you dont deserve what this guy is trying to do.

Lee, if you pull off the investment please feel free to tell all the moaning minnies to go flip themselves in big bold blue letters!!!