Let's be honest.

[sheffield_dave]

"Not for a moment suggesting we give up on criticism and protest", but happy to talk down its effectiveness behind fluffy questioning designed to obscure the conversation and tell people it won't work. 

 

 

[DJMortimer]

18 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

"Not for a moment suggesting we give up on criticism and protest", but happy to talk down its effectiveness behind fluffy questioning designed to obscure the conversation and tell people it won't work. 

 

 

 

Is it especially realistic and/or rational to expect that...

 

1) the owner of a football club will cheerfully wave goodbye to tens of millions of pounds when the possibility remains (however fanciful) to recoup it all and more in a couple of years?

2) our esteemed chairman will suddenly develop a degree of humility or philanthropy there have been precious little signs of in the past?

3) someone else will want to invest an enormous sum to replace him, also taking on the debts, decaying infrastructure and mediocre squad?

4) calling on supporters to essentially financially abandon the club in their thousands for a prolonged period is going to be successful, especially as our main protest group has already been subjected to threats and abuse for simply expressing dissent?

5) that pretending the above is anything other than a remote possibility changes anything?

 

Forget the chest beating, posturing and sneering. Whether you like it or not, they are very real and significant issues that can't be simply wished away. But as you've chosen to transform 'understand the scale of the problems' into 'it won't work' (all too typical of how people treat even the merest hint of dissonance these days) I don't hold out much hope for a nuanced perspective.

 

 

[sheffield_dave]

10 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

But as you've chosen to transform 'understand the scale of the problems' into 'it won't work' (all too typical of how people treat even the merest hint of dissonance these days) I don't hold out much hope for a nuanced perspective.

 

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

That's all true, but we as supporters absolutely cannot force change.

 

I didn't transform anything. I quoted you. It's you who has discounted the prospect of protest achieving anything. Completely written it off. You even put "cannot" in italics just to stress how much you believe it's a total waste of time.

 

The problem with that little list you've just offered up is that it leaves absolutely no room for any eventuality that ends with Chansiri leaving the club. You don't think DC will walk away from any money. You don't think there's any prospect of investment. You don't think anyone will buy him out. You don't think supporter action is going to be successful. All of which means DC stays, and in my genuine, honest opinion, that will lead to the death of SWFC. I'm absolutely sure of that.

 

So I go back to my question. Are you going to do what you can? Something? Anything? Or are you going to sit and do nothing, and just watch as it unfolds while you question what's "realistic"?

Edited April 13 by sheffield_dave

[DJMortimer]

Just now, sheffield_dave said:

I didn't transform anything. I quoted you. It's you who has discounted the prospect of protest achieving anything. Completely written it off. You even put "cannot" in italics just to stress how much you believe it's a total waste of time.

 

What might have been a slightly over zealous misunderstanding has now been transformed into a plain and simple untruth. The only thing you actually quoted was me saying that the protests should continue - not far from the opposite of what I'm being accused of. As for the use of the word 'cannot', this was to emphasise what seems to me a very obvious truth - that if Chansiri doesn't want to leave (or at least expects a ridiculous package to do so), and no one else wants to seriously try replacing him, then we are relatively powerless as supporters. How long have the protests been going at Manchester United and Blackburn for example?

 

3 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

The problem with that little list you've just offered up is that it leaves absolutely no room for any eventuality that ends with Chansiri leaving the club. You don't think DC will walk away from any money. You don't think there's any prospect of investment. You don't think anyone will buy him out. You don't think supporter action is going to be successful.

 

Much the same here too. I asked if it was realistic to expect some massive things to unfold due to the limited pressure we as supporters can apply. Once again that has become absolutes that it's impossible and we should just give up that I never expressed.

 

15 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

All of which means DC stays, and in my genuine, honest opinion, that will lead to the death of SWFC. I'm absolutely sure of that. So I go back to my question. Are you going to do what you can? Something? Anything? Or are you going to sit and do nothing, and just watch as it unfolds why you question what's "realistic"?

 

I have wanted rid of the current ownership for years and have been fully supportive of the aims of The 1867 Group. So I'm not sure what it is you're trying to patronise me into doing. If this is your attitude to those who converted long ago, but who refuse to conform 100% with your viewpoint, then God help you with some of the misguided fools who think we're better off as we are. My only intention here was to highlight the scale of the problems as some seem to be under the impression that the club can be transformed simply and quickly just by wishful thinking or shouting a bit louder. 

[DJMortimer]

3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

What might have been a slightly over zealous misunderstanding has now been transformed into a plain and simple untruth. The only thing you actually quoted was me saying that the protests should continue - not far from the opposite of what I'm being accused of.

 

Actually, looking back at the first page, I was too hasty and this is not entirely accurate. There was a second quote, albeit still misrepresented. But I can no longer edit the previous post to amend that part.

[pat blondeau]

1 hour ago, TrickyTrev said:

The damage was done in the summer when he took a sledgehammer to the momentum promotion created by getting rid of Moore.

 

He then took an age to hire his successor and when he did it just happened to be the worst manager we’ve had in my lifetime, we also took ages assembling the squad and entered the season with one of the most chaotic pre seasons in our clubs recent history.

 

It’s little wonder we only picked up something like 3 points from our first 11 games.

 

Any fan that still backs this clown is getting the football club they deserve.

We took a sledgehammer to the team in the summer and then you look at the team that played today and we’ve almost gone full circle. We’re pretty much back to last year’s team.

 

Today’s outfield starting line up was last year’s team with Pol and Ugbo as the only changes from last season.

 

What does it say about the two transfer windows we’ve had as a championship club when the only outfield players we have starting that we’ve signed this season are Pol and Ugbo 

[Costello 77]

Investing (gambling) a hundred million into a complex entity that you don't understand will rarely end well.

 

Somebody has told him to get (too late) Röhl in which is working.

 

He'll baulk at Röhl's budget and run on a shoestring into division four.

 

There's absolutely no logic to his tenure.

[Dutch McLovin]

8 hours ago, Sykes said:

 

It's not just the appointment of the hapless Xisco, either. If Röhl had inherited better players then we could be well out of the relegation zone now.

 

Chanser, as expected, spent sweet f*ck all in the transfer windows. Some players turned out okay, but we needed way more quality for the Championship.

Exactly this… plus the first 5 or 6 games of Röhl he was getting the players fit, they couldn’t last longer than 60 mins. 
 

I mean the agents fee thing that came out…. It’s a good thing as I hate agents fees think they should be banned, but surely that shows that Chansiri won’t spend on better deals, meaning we’re always going to struggle.

[Morepork]

10 hours ago, Southie_Owl said:

Chansiri is absolutely holding the club back from what it could and should be

 

Once relegation is confirmed I hope the protests really ramp up.  
 

The thought of having another season where he’s owner is more terrifying than any relegation.  

 

You can't possibly run the club in this manner and claim to have it's best interests at heart, he's moronic. 

[Animis]

We're becoming a hollowed-out club - on and off the field. DC has systematically ripped us apart, and has no plan. It's scary and many respected people within football know this, but we have sole owner who rarely sets foot in the country leaving a skeleton staff to run the basics, which we struggle with, and largely fail to deliver.

 

League 1 could be like 2010/11 again. Röhl and senior players may leave and we could be at last Summer's mess all over again. Our revenue and crowds will drop leaving DC more inclined to shut everything down - it's an ever decreasing circle.

[HarrowbyOwl]

Fans still haven't cottoned on to the opoertunities to work around the Independent Football Regulator.

 

To receive a license to operate clubs will need to demonstrate they have:

• suitable quantity, quality, and availability of financial means to support its long-term sustainability
• internal control systems, plans, policies and the human resources available.

The regulator will assess:

• the qualifications, experience, training and performance of the club’s owners and officers
• the club's corporate structure and internal governance being appropriate to protect financial resources and reduce financial risks

The mandatory football club corporate governance code will require clubs have a plural board with the appropriate balance of skills, experience, diversity, independence and knowledge

 

All these things will be non-negotiable and the regulator has considerable enforcement powers.

Chansiri will forced to either comply or sell up.

Which do you think he will choose?

 

Either way its a win-win for fans

 

Edited April 14 by HarrowbyOwl

[Kaiserslautern]

I think people forget how badly run the club has been during the 18-19 years before chansiri rocked up.the decline started in the last 2-3 premiership years and has gone on since. We’ve been to league 1 twice before chansiri turned up…..I think people need to look deeper into the history but it does chansiri need to go? ffs yes !

[Morepork]

5 minutes ago, Kaiserslautern said:

I think people forget how badly run the club has been during the 18-19 years before chansiri rocked up.the decline started in the last 2-3 premiership years and has gone on since. We’ve been to league 1 twice before chansiri turned up…..I think people need to look deeper into the history but it does chansiri need to go? ffs yes !

If we all had that thought process we’d be well and truly f@cked. You’re basically saying we’ve had it worse, things aren’t so bad….we should be grateful even…?

[DJMortimer]

4 minutes ago, Kaiserslautern said:

I think people forget how badly run the club has been during the 18-19 years before chansiri rocked up.the decline started in the last 2-3 premiership years and has gone on since. We’ve been to league 1 twice before chansiri turned up…..I think people need to look deeper into the history but it does chansiri need to go? ffs yes !

 

That's letting him off way too lightly as if he's up against some overpowering and invisible forces of fate and history. When he took over, the debts were all but cleared as I understand it and we had a steady, mid-table squad for this level with a capable manager. His 'plan', if you want to call it that, was to throw pretty much all his funding in at the start and hope we got promoted to the Premier League. It was haphazard and misguided, but for a short time at least, it was almost working. But when things started to go wrong, the coffers were all but empty by his previous standards and we've been treading water ever since at a level conducive with the investment - lower Championship / upper League One.

 

Add to that the enormous millstone of debt we now have, the uncertainty of the status of the stadium's ownership, the seemingly autocratic stewardship of the entire operation, the decline of facilities at Hillsborough and Middlewood Road, the reduction in resources for the squad, our relationship with the EFL which includes transfer embargoes and points penalties that saw us relegated, periodic criticism of supporters, lack of sustainable long term strategy etc. etc. then I'm afraid it's not good enough to imply he hasn't made an unholy shambles of it.

[Kaiserslautern]

2 minutes ago, Morepork said:

If we all had that thought process we’d be well and truly f@cked. You’re basically saying we’ve had it worse, things aren’t so bad….we should be grateful even…?

No, I’m simply saying we’ve been run like a shambles for the last 28 years! This chansiri era is hardly different to what’s gone before but we did have a brief hope. But no, chansiri is running us into the ground and needs to go …..definitely 

[owls maniac]

2 minutes ago, Kaiserslautern said:

No, I’m simply saying we’ve been run like a shambles for the last 28 years! This chansiri era is hardly different to what’s gone before but we did have a brief hope. But no, chansiri is running us into the ground and needs to go …..definitely 

Chansiri has run the club far worse than anything prior. 
 

He isn’t going to change. 
 

How can anyone look at the last 9 years and imagine a way in which we are competing at the top end of the Championship?

[@owlstalk]

8 minutes ago, Kaiserslautern said:

  This chansiri era is hardly different to what’s gone before  

This statement needs addressing though

Because it's simply not true

The Chansiri era has been extraordinary in so many ways

It's definitely different to anything before he arrived

[maidstoneowl]

 

Honestly feel so tired, drained of putting energy into Wednesday.

 

The sad thing is, most Summers/close seasons come and go and once the new kit is released and the 8-9 new free transfers are smiling, tanned and looking like "promotion players", most of us dust ourselves down, and "go again" as fans.

 

Right now, if we drop I don't feel like I can do this all over again. Unlike the last two drops when most of us thought it might be the best thing and we will "come back stronger".  Simply can't see it this time round, if the worse happens.

 

As a few of you ITK types have suggested this season, if it goes pop it's going to get (much) worse before it gets better. It worries me and I wish it didn't, I wish I could detach myself from the misery of being a Wednesday fan. 

 

Sad.

Edited April 14 by maidstoneowl

[Kaiserslautern]

4 minutes ago, owls maniac said:

Chansiri has run the club far worse than anything prior. 
 

He isn’t going to change. 
 

How can anyone look at the last 9 years and imagine a way in which we are competing at the top end of the Championship?

Do you remember the Dave Allen era? In no way am I defending chansiri…. He needs to go asap. But it wasn’t all roses before thats the point I was making. After 25 years of rubbish you get used to it. It’s sad really 

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Kaiserslautern said:

Do you remember the Dave Allen era? 

I do

And I'd personally go and pick Dave up and drive him to Hillsborough if he would take over from the current chairman

That's how bad Chansiri is