smhouston Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) Some contradictory posts here in saying we shouldn't be doing this to supporters as we should all be as one, yet at the same time saying it was right to sue the club in its hour of need. The supporter(s) doing what they did will have cost the club even more in money due to having to fund legal costs and man power. If it had been long after covid and not received a refund then I would support them doing so. The club never said they wouldn't give their money back though and just needed some time. Do I want the supporter to be banned though? Not particularly. Do I blame the club for wanting to ban them for wasting its resources? Not particularly. Edited July 30, 2022 by smhouston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, smhouston said: Some contradictory posts here in saying we shouldn't be doing this to supporters as we should all be as one, yet at the same time saying it was right to sue the club in its hour of need. The supporter(s) doing what they did will have cost the club even more in money due to having to fund legal costs and man power. Refund the fans properly and in timely fashion then 5 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyonedavidhirst Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 14 minutes ago, smhouston said: Some contradictory posts here in saying we shouldn't be doing this to supporters as we should all be as one, yet at the same time saying it was right to sue the club in its hour of need. The supporter(s) doing what they did will have cost the club even more in money due to having to fund legal costs and man power. If it had been long after covid and not received a refund then I would support them doing so. The club never said they wouldn't give their money back though and just needed some time. Do I want the supporter to be banned though? Not particularly. Do I blame the club for wanting to ban them for wasting its resources? Not particularly. I don't blame the supporter and I don't want him banned, personally I didn't use the phrase we should all be as one. However, families often bicker, at times fall out - sometimes over money, at times they let each other down. When the crunch comes though, they stick together and they wouldn't stop themselves from seeing each other. To me there's only a couple of facts we know. Firstly, the guy wants a season ticket and felt a need to take action against the club to get his refund (we don't know why he felt that way). Secondly, he gave the club lots of chances and explained his situation, the club did not. He didn't cost them lots more money, they could have replied to him. On those 2 bits of information that seems to be the only things we actually know, the club is at fault and shouldn't ban him, if indeed they have done. My supposition, as I've mentioned before, is that Chansiri sees this as the fan disrespecting the club and showing a lack of honour, when in my mind Chansiri should have been more open about the refund process and he could have instigated a policy for these types of cases. A simple message to fans like "I will be refunding, I urge you to take credit rather than cash, if you do take cash it may take up to 18 months due to Covid and the lack of cash flow, if you feel you have an urgent situation please email the club.......etc". Transparency often stops these things from escalating. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, smhouston said: If it had been long after covid and not received a refund then I would support them doing so. Are you aware of just how long the club hadn’t refunded people? 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 minute ago, onlyonedavidhirst said: I don't blame the supporter and I don't want him banned, personally I didn't use the phrase we should all be as one. However, families often bicker, at times fall out - sometimes over money, at times they let each other down. When the crunch comes though, they stick together and they wouldn't stop themselves from seeing each other. To me there's only a couple of facts we know. Firstly, the guy wants a season ticket and felt a need to take action against the club to get his refund (we don't know why he felt that way). Secondly, he gave the club lots of chances and explained his situation, the club did not. He didn't cost them lots more money, they could have replied to him. On those 2 bits of information that seems to be the only things we actually know, the club is at fault and shouldn't ban him, if indeed they have done. My supposition, as I've mentioned before, is that Chansiri sees this as the fan disrespecting the club and showing a lack of honour, when in my mind Chansiri should have been more open about the refund process and he could have instigated a policy for these types of cases. A simple message to fans like "I will be refunding, I urge you to take credit rather than cash, if you do take cash it may take up to 18 months due to Covid and the lack of cash flow, if you feel you have an urgent situation please email the club.......etc". Transparency often stops these things from escalating. Family ? sheffield Wednesday is a company owned by a family worth 800 million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, mcmigo said: Family ? sheffield Wednesday is a company owned by a family worth 800 million dollars. Which begs the question of why the refunds couldn’t have just been done 2 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Are we still doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FoxOwl12 Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 I think the saying is "you reap what you sow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Which begs the question of why the refunds couldn’t have just been done Indeed. It was just another example of woeful financial administration and management. As a business we we took money from customers for services we couldn’t provide , and failed to refund them , and then compounded this by not making payroll to the players. COVID was a tough time for all businesses but I bet there aren’t many out there that managed the situation as badly as Wednesday did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 25 minutes ago, FoxOwl12 said: I think the saying is "you reap what you sow". Yep Mess fans about like that and they'll sue you Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Starling Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 I tried to renew our season tickets after previously doing a charge back on my credit card to claim back monies owed by the club. I also tried to contact the club on numerous occasions without success before the charge back. The club had cancelled the tickets so I thought fizz you I'll spend my money and time on other things. I haven't missed it once. The club need to realise its easier to keep fans than try to get them to change habits and come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 I think the biggest mistake the club made was offering the 8 options, trying to please everyone. I don’t think they anticipated how many would ask for refunds and cash flow became an issue because of the pandemic.Majority of clubs just issued credits to season tickets. That said the communication has been poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shezza Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 23 hours ago, daveyboy66 said: It's impossible to quantify the stupidity of the club on this...there must be SOMEONE at the club who can say to Chansiri " hold on this is detrimental to all the good work over the last season " Perhaps Darren Moore could have a word ? What is he supposed to say? «Let it go, dust yourself and go again, Dejphon.» I bet he is as embarrassed as the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JemmoJemoJemmo Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: Are you aware of just how long the club hadn’t refunded people? One point to make here, the club can’t pay anything. It loses millions every year. Every single month it needs money putting in from the owner. All this talk of ‘the club’ refunding supporters is utter nonsense. Lets be clear about this, we are saying Chansiri should personally refund supporters. Now to give a counter-argument to the momentum of the thread. People will say, it’s his choice to own the club and spend all this on wages. What would the same people say if Chansiri ran it like a proper limited company and refused to run it at a loss? We only had players that the actual turnover of the club could afford!?!? So on one hand, we are saying don’t run it like a normal limited company - keep putting the money in and writing cheques every month - which is pretty much wholly for the supporters benefit. On the other hand, we are saying this is outrageous that a company would behave with such a lack of corporate governance. Behave properly and within the law. Then it does behave like you’d expect a company to behave and no longer does business with a customer that sued it and we switch to this is outrageous. This is a football club not a proper business. Treat supporters better. I’ve personally dealt with Chansiri and found it to be frustrating and him completely lacking in integrity. Personally, I don’t think he could’ve done a worse job if he’d tried since he took over - absolutely hopeless. Therefore, I’ve no doubt this will have been poorly handled and could’ve been avoided. At the same time, some of the comments on here. People want it all ways in their favour and always in their favour. Presumably, mainly just because Chansiri has far more money than the supporters. Just remember, he’s also putting in far more money than the supporters and if he ever can’t or won’t in the near future - we’ll be doing a Derby (but from the starting point if a division lower!). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Just now, JemmoJemoJemmo said: One point to make here, the club can’t pay anything. It loses millions every year. Every single month it needs money putting in from the owner. All this talk of ‘the club’ refunding supporters is utter nonsense. Lets be clear about this, we are saying Chansiri should personally refund supporters. Now to give a counter-argument to the momentum of the thread. People will say, it’s his choice to own the club and spend all this on wages. What would the same people say if Chansiri ran it like a proper limited company and refused to run it at a loss? We only had players that the actual turnover of the club could afford!?!? So on one hand, we are saying don’t run it like a normal limited company - keep putting the money in and writing cheques every month - which is pretty much wholly for the supporters benefit. On the other hand, we are saying this is outrageous that a company would behave with such a lack of corporate governance. Behave properly and within the law. Then it does behave like you’d expect a company to behave and no longer does business with a customer that sued it and we switch to this is outrageous. This is a football club not a proper business. Treat supporters better. I’ve personally dealt with Chansiri and found it to be frustrating and him completely lacking in integrity. Personally, I don’t think he could’ve done a worse job if he’d tried since he took over - absolutely hopeless. Therefore, I’ve no doubt this will have been poorly handled and could’ve been avoided. At the same time, some of the comments on here. People want it all ways in their favour and always in their favour. You make some fair points but I disagree with you on the people wanting it all ways. That's not what is being asked here at all. I would say two things 1) Communicate with fans, answer their emails and update them on the ETA of the refund and you won't have anyone kicking off at all 2) Don't be petty and stop fans from having a season ticket - if anything turn it into a positive PR angle instead Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Anyway - here's to three points on a wet pitch today! Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirksandallowl Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Has it been confirmed that the club actively stopped him buying a ticket yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shezza Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Chansiri doesn’t know how to run a business, let alone a football club. He is just weeing the money his family gives him to stay away from their business up against the wall. Yet he refuses to engage knowledgable people with experience from football to run the club. It’s using the same logic as hiring a coach and players. It’s not like he lets Att pick the team. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JemmoJemoJemmo Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: You make some fair points but I disagree with you on the people wanting it all ways. That's not what is being asked here at all. I would say two things 1) Communicate with fans, answer their emails and update them on the ETA of the refund and you won't have anyone kicking off at all 2) Don't be petty and stop fans from having a season ticket - if anything turn it into a positive PR angle instead I agree with you on both points. But as we know, he’s a poor communicator, has no track record as a businessman, is a control freak with no man-management skills and has been shown to be lacking in integrity. At the same time (and im undecided on this - it’s difficult) im not cinvinced we should expect the burden of Covid to rest purely with the owner just because he has more money than us. Im not sure it would’ve been an unreasonable position for him to simply tell all supporters there was no money for a refund. The supporter is suing Wednesday like it’s a normal Company that has money and generates profits - it isn’t. I know we’ve disagreed on many points previously but I’m genuinely not trying to be difficult here. Just saying I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut or one sided as this thread portrays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, JemmoJemoJemmo said: I agree with you on both points. But as we know, he’s a poor communicator, has no track record as a businessman, is a control freak with no man-management skills and has been shown to be lacking in integrity. At the same time (and im undecided on this - it’s difficult) im not cinvinced we should expect the burden of Covid to rest purely with the owner just because he has more money than us. Im not sure it would’ve been an unreasonable position for him to simply tell all supporters there was no money for a refund. The supporter is suing Wednesday like it’s a normal Company that has money and generates profits - it isn’t. I know we’ve disagreed on many points previously but I’m genuinely not trying to be difficult here. Just saying I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut or one sided as this thread portrays. I hear you mate BUT The club has a communications director who's job it is to ensure clear communications come from the club at all times It also has other management people responsible for communicating from their departments (like ticket office etc) It has a website, twitter, emails, instagram and a mailing list to name just a few I honestly think that (like you say) if the chairman had said it was going to take two years or even three years for you to get your refund then that would have stopped anyone getting upset, and would have even maybe convinced some fans to not even bother asking for one. Thing is nobody has asked for anything extraordinary or out of normallity here - just open, clear, honest, regular communication (which shows a respect for the fans/customers and also is totally free to have/do/deliver) Costs nothing - creates a 'club' atmosphere - avoids bad PR Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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