Man City Premier League Dominance

[SiJ]

2 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Don’t quite get where people think I’m saying individual players wouldn’t be able to compete.

 

I’m talking about what this City and Liverpool team have done over recent seasons. The pressing, goals, fitness levels, the intensity. That makes them, for me, the best two PL teams we’ve ever seen. 
 

The conversation isn’t about if past era players could adapt. They probably could. I’m just making the point that these two are probably the best we’ve seen in terms of the way they play the game and what they’re achieving.

 

I watched an interview with Neville and Carragher the other week, they said exactly the same. These two teams and the way they’ve pulled away from the competition (competition that has spent millions and millions by the way) is astonishing. 

You said they would wipe the floor with all previous great PL teams. 

 

That's not the same as saying the current top two are the best we've ever seen. Perhaps they are, but that's not what you were arguing. 

[markg]

23 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Don’t quite get where people think I’m saying individual players wouldn’t be able to compete.

 

I’m talking about what this City and Liverpool team have done over recent seasons. The pressing, goals, fitness levels, the intensity. That makes them, for me, the best two PL teams we’ve ever seen. 
 

The conversation isn’t about if past era players could adapt. They probably could. I’m just making the point that these two are probably the best we’ve seen in terms of the way they play the game and what they’re achieving.

 

I watched an interview with Neville and Carragher the other week, they said exactly the same. These two teams and the way they’ve pulled away from the competition (competition that has spent millions and millions by the way) is astonishing. 

You said that the current City and Liverpool teams would wipe the floor with teams from the past. Your argument seems to be only based on fitness levels and pressing. My point is that if teams from back then needed to match fitness levels of today then I'm sure that they could. In fact, I'd say it makes your argument even more flawed. 

 

If, say, the invincibles team had the same fitness levels as those of today then they'd hammer the current sides. 

[g-owls]

Speaking of ex-players, Paul Scholes was a generation ahead of his time.

Was it Xavi who said he’s one the best he’s played against?

 

And speaking of Xavi. The Barcelona side of 10/11 has to be the finest football team ever to play the game. The way they dismantled Man Utd at Wembley was football from the gods. 
 

That Barca side at its peak against the Milan side from 20 years earlier would have been an interesting match up. 

[SiJ]

I just think it's quite easy to fall into the trap of thinking that newer is better. 

 

No denying the current PL top 2 are brilliant sides and perhaps they have raised the bar, but that doesn't mean they wipe the floor with all that came before them. 

 

Yes, football evolves and changes over time, but that doesn't automatically make it better. 

 

Most great teams and great players would be great in any era. I'd put City and Liverpool in the conversation with the Invincibles, the Chelsea 05 side, the Man U 06 - 09 side and the treble winners. All great teams and you could sit there and debate for ages as to who is the greatest. 

[BIG D]

The game is a different level these days both fitness and technique.  

[Geedee]

32 minutes ago, g-owls said:

Speaking of ex-players, Paul Scholes was a generation ahead of his time.

Was it Xavi who said he’s one the best he’s played against?

 

And speaking of Xavi. The Barcelona side of 10/11 has to be the finest football team ever to play the game. The way they dismantled Man Utd at Wembley was football from the gods. 
 

That Barca side at its peak against the Milan side from 20 years earlier would have been an interesting match up. 

In my time best  Brazil 1970

But I agree that Barcelaona team was fabulous

 

[83owl]

Yes the game is much more advanced in training and technique these days. There’s no way someone like Ronaldo when he was at Barcelona would be able to get past the likes of Harry Maguire. 

[SallyCinnamon]

9 hours ago, SiJ said:

You said they would wipe the floor with all previous great PL teams. 

 

That's not the same as saying the current top two are the best we've ever seen. Perhaps they are, but that's not what you were arguing. 

I think they would? If it was 2004 Arsenal vs 2022 City? 
 

Straight on head-to-head. City would be fitter, quicker and smarter on the pitch. 
 

Hence, going back to my original point that these two sides are the best the Premier League has ever seen. 

[SiJ]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I think they would? If it was 2004 Arsenal vs 2022 City? 
 

Straight on head-to-head. City would be fitter, quicker and smarter on the pitch. 
 

Hence, going back to my original point that these two sides are the best the Premier League has ever seen. 

Eurgh.

 

I can't even be bothered to debate it anymore.

 

You're wrong but whatever.

[markg]

16 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I think they would? If it was 2004 Arsenal vs 2022 City? 
 

Straight on head-to-head. City would be fitter, quicker and smarter on the pitch. 
 

Hence, going back to my original point that these two sides are the best the Premier League has ever seen. 

So we are just going down to fitness then? 

[The only way is S6]

19 hours ago, 83owl said:

Yes the game is much more advanced in training and technique these days. There’s no way someone like Ronaldo when he was at Barcelona would be able to get past the likes of Harry Maguire. 

From what I saw of Ronaldo in the crowd in Paris, he’d struggle to get past a buffet table! 

[SiJ]

27 minutes ago, markg said:

So we are just going down to fitness then? 

Apparently so. 

 

They are also "smarter" whatever that means. 

 

From what I recall, Arsene Wenger's great Arsenal teams played some of the best, fast paced attacking football of any PL side. 

 

I must have been mistaken. 

[BIG D]

City of today would beat the Invincibles  of 2004 9 times out of 10.

Those players with todays fitness, style of play etc would do better but still not as good as City.

[SallyCinnamon]

23 minutes ago, BIG D said:

City of today would beat the Invincibles  of 2004 9 times out of 10.

Those players with todays fitness, style of play etc would do better but still not as good as City.

Yep. This is the simple point I’m making.
 

But people are tying themselves in thinking it’s a direct comparison in quality of Thierry Henry and Mo Salah and we need to transfer certain players into different eras blah blah. 

[SallyCinnamon]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Apparently so. 

 

They are also "smarter" whatever that means. 

 

From what I recall, Arsene Wenger's great Arsenal teams played some of the best, fast paced attacking football of any PL side. 

 

I must have been mistaken. 

Yep they did.

 

Still not as strong as this City and Liverpool side. 

[83owl]

3 hours ago, The only way is S6 said:

From what I saw of Ronaldo in the crowd in Paris, he’d struggle to get past a buffet table! 

That’s why he kept that gap in his teeth so he could slide through a finger sandwich without having to waste energy by opening his mouth.

[markg]

3 hours ago, SiJ said:

Apparently so. 

 

They are also "smarter" whatever that means. 

 

From what I recall, Arsene Wenger's great Arsenal teams played some of the best, fast paced attacking football of any PL side. 

 

I must have been mistaken. 

Yep.

and given that they were one of the first teams to embrace modern sports science, change of diet etc , I’m sure that they could adapt to the demands of today’s game 

[SiJ]

9 minutes ago, markg said:

Yep.

and given that they were one of the first teams to embrace modern sports science, change of diet etc , I’m sure that they could adapt to the demands of today’s game 

Wenger and that team are one of the most important in English football and not just for the way they played. 

 

If you were to take those players and manager, in their prime, give them the benefits of modern day sports science, diet, conditioning etc., then they would be giving most top sides of today a game and then some. 

 

Certainly wouldn't be getting pasted like one or two are suggesting. 

[SallyCinnamon]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Wenger and that team are one of the most important in English football and not just for the way they played. 

 

If you were to take those players and manager, in their prime, give them the benefits of modern day sports science, diet, conditioning etc., then they would be giving most top sides of today a game and then some. 

 

Certainly wouldn't be getting pasted like one or two are suggesting. 

But we can’t give them the benefits of the modern game. They were fantastic in their era. But the point still remains this City and Liverpool team are the best the Prem have seen.

[0wl18]

You can’t compare the teams fairly.

Man City and Liverpool are phenomenal no question. 
 

Non of the great Premier League teams played during an era where teams played anything like the systems employed in todays game. That doesn’t mean they weren’t capable, football was just played a different way then.