Bit concerned..

[Onge]

If you think we will stay up, you're just delaying your disappointment. Have you learnt nothing from following this club?

 

Remember back to back wins in 2000, only to lose at home to Sunderland?

 

Remember the relegation play off against Palace in 2010?

 

Remember us not turning up at Wembley?

 

This club just dishes up disappointment when we need them the most.

 

I want to believe but let's be honest with ourselves - we're going down. And it may be a very long time before we return to this division.

 

And if by some miracle we do stay up, we'll only postpone our fate by 12 months.

 

As a club, we're Donald Ducked - all thanks to our chairman.

[Bluesteel]

9 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

We’re a better team than what we’ve shown though. I think we’re about 10 points below where we’d be had chairman and managers got the most basic of decisions right this season. If we’d had a decent manager all season i think we’d be somewhere like 15th.

 

Think how many games we’ve wasted by not playing a striker, playing one up, playing people out of position, playing Pulis ball. It’s a lot, and we’ve rarely seen any benefit to it.. most of the wins have been in games where the manager has put the players that fans have called for on to the pitch. So it’s frustrating 

 

We can’t win all 7 games but we can win 4 or so and make it interesting.. it’s all down to whether someone above us implodes now at this point

Yeah we certainly need someone like Huddersfield to implode and Rotherham to fail.

 

If we had the six points back we’d already be level with those in the battle. Add a few of the six pointers we’ve lost and that would put us further away.

 

Also when you think of how much of our budget this season must be on Flint, Marriott, Brown, Kachunga...

[sonofbert2]

1 minute ago, Onge said:

If you think we will stay up, you're just delaying your disappointment. Have you learnt nothing from following this club?

 

Remember back to back wins in 2000, only to lose at home to Sunderland?

 

Remember the relegation play off against Palace in 2010?

 

Remember us not turning up at Wembley?

 

This club just dishes up disappointment when we need them the most.

 

I want to believe but let's be honest with ourselves - we're going down. And it may be a very long time before we return to this division.

 

And if by some miracle we do stay up, we'll only postpone our fate by 12 months.

 

As a club, we're Donald Ducked - all thanks to our chairman.

 

Have a nice day!!

 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

14 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I have absolutely no idea of the role Monk or other managers played in our buying and loaning. That’s why I said Monk and DC.

 

I agree Monk imploded thereafter. Look at the side that won at Cardiff, and the side that beat them the other night. An identical approach - Windass & Rhodes up front, a left-footed and right-footed wing-back either side of a back 3.

 

He ditched it two games later.

I hear you. 

But it does seem strange that a number of the highest earners were suddenly ditched. 

It would not surprise me in the slightest if DC told monk they were being shipped out and to plan without them to cut his cloth on a much lower budget. Moves that ended up being nothing more than newspaper rumours in the end. But left us lumbered.

I guess I understand his thinking if that was the case. He had a mountain to climb, with a limited squad and to get across a new system of play with the other coaches and the players.

A massive task really if you think about it and I guess you have to bite the bullet somewhere along the line.

Better men than he would have failed under the same circumstances.

DC and Paxo are the culprits and whilst ever they are involved with this club we'll not have any success.

 

 

[Barnwood62]

It’s all down to Chansiri took too long getting a new manager in, 7 points is a lot to make up at this stage in the season Moore’s just getting the system of play he wants now

[Owly Mowly]

You just can’t help yourself imagining a great escape though can ya? 
How good will it feel to come back from the brink and against all

odds and a points deduction.

Yes very unlikely, but I can’t help myself thinking about it 

[Athelwulf]

59 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

If he had the money why have we not spent hardly anything since 2017? On the playing squad and the infrastructure.

 

I think it's been a feast and famine situation.

 

It wouldn't matter if he'd been as rich as Croesus, because a club is only allowed to spend so much, a figure determined by its turnover.

 

Hence the raised ticket prices and taxi firms to make our turnover bigger, or appear bigger, thus allowing him to spend more of his own money.

 

That was my point; had we been a parachute club Chansiri could have spent what he wanted, when he wanted.

 

Chansiri spent his allowance in the first couple of years, and since then we've been on short commons.

 

Having the money is one thing, being allowed to spend it's another.

 

And once the chance of promotion had slipped away, it's unlikely any family members would be putting money in the pot any more.

 

In the end Chansiri gave the ball a kick, but he'd have been able to kick it a lot harder had it not been for the restrictions placed on him.

[Guest mrbluesky]

11 hours ago, Spondon Owl said:

That people have started to believe. 

 

It's too far. It's too much to do. Coventry and Birmingham WILL pick up points. 

 

I just worry about the effect it will have if people get their hopes up and then they are dashed as usual by Wednesday. Assume we're down and then if by some miracle we stay up it'll be a pleasant surprise. 

It's all about opinions, but if you state statistics of us staying up, I guarantee we are 99% down

 

The 1% ?, if we win all our remaining games. 

[Athelwulf]

47 minutes ago, Onge said:

If you think we will stay up, you're just delaying your disappointment. Have you learnt nothing from following this club?

 

Remember back to back wins in 2000, only to lose at home to Sunderland?

 

Remember the relegation play off against Palace in 2010?

 

Remember us not turning up at Wembley?

 

This club just dishes up disappointment when we need them the most.

 

I want to believe but let's be honest with ourselves - we're going down. And it may be a very long time before we return to this division.

 

And if by some miracle we do stay up, we'll only postpone our fate by 12 months.

 

As a club, we're Donald Ducked - all thanks to our chairman.

 

...and several chairmen before him.

 

Why did we not modernize when the maximum wage was abolished, and why didn't Dave Richards modernize us in the early 1990s?

 

Had that happened the nightmare of the last 25 years would never have happened.

 

Why was no decent youth policy ever established by previous chairmen?

 

Perhaps then there could have been more sustainability.

 

Chansiri's made mistakes, but we need to think about what sort of club he inherited and the hash that his predecessors made of things.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

The fans have called for all sorts, though - there's nothing like a consensus, is there?

 

Some have told us that we can only win with Paterson and Rhodes up top; others have claimed that Harris and Reach must play right and left respectively; some have claimed that one up top will never work etc..

 

And yet we've won by starting:

• a front two of Windass and Rhodes
• a front two of Windass and Paterson
• Windass flanked by Kachunga and Reach
• a front two of Kachunga and Paterson
• a front two of Rhodes and Paterson
• Harris on the right and Penney on the left
• Reach on the right and Kachunga on the left
• Odubajo on the right and Harris on the left
• Harris on the right and Reach on the left
• Palmer on the right and Penney on the left
• Reach on the right and Penney on the left
• Palmer on the right and Reach on the left

Football is a game of many variables, and dogmatic principles rarely apply. As tempting as it as fans to see something working in one game and thinking it would always work, it's never that simple, I'm afraid.

This is all the same thing though, none of those things are mutually exclusive. And it boils down to playing two up front, with Rhodes preferred as first choice striker with a partner. And a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right.

 

I haven’t gone through the line ups for all 11 wins, bit busy today... but that’s generally been the formula that works. I’m sure we have won the odd game where it’s not been the case, but the stats are better when we have set up like that. I think from memory the game where we started with Paterson and Kachunga was Bournemouth away, which we won once Rhodes came on.

 

Would also say that of all our wide options, Reach is the one most capable of playing on the opposite wing. But he’s obviously better on the left.

 

 

[Lord Snooty]

Well we keep nicking the odd win when it all looks doom. 

 

It keeps it interesting a bit longer. 

 

Or more prolonged pain, depending how you look at it. 

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

With respect that’s twisting words.

 

Of course we will win the odd game with a poor line-up, just as we will lose games playing the fans’ dream-team Xl, but over the 46 games you have to maximise your chances, and you do that by picking your best players in their best positions.

 

So many of the duos in your list make no sense over the season. And that is why we are where we are.

 

It's not twisting words; some posters have told us that we must start Paterson and Rhodes in every game or that we can't start Windass etc.

 

Such dogmatic thinking ignores the strengths and weaknesses of our opposition, the form and fitness of our own players etc.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

19 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

I think it's been a feast and famine situation.

 

It wouldn't matter if he'd been as rich as Croesus, because a club is only allowed to spend so much, a figure determined by its turnover.

 

Hence the raised ticket prices and taxi firms to make our turnover bigger, or appear bigger, thus allowing him to spend more of his own money.

 

That was my point; had we been a parachute club Chansiri could have spent what he wanted, when he wanted.

 

Chansiri spent his allowance in the first couple of years, and since then we've been on short commons.

 

Having the money is one thing, being allowed to spend it's another.

 

And once the chance of promotion had slipped away, it's unlikely any family members would be putting money in the pot any more.

 

In the end Chansiri gave the ball a kick, but he'd have been able to kick it a lot harder had it not been for the restrictions placed on him.

He definitely doesn’t have the money though.. a quick google tells you the net worth of the Chansiri family and its way less than a billion. And then that’s split 3 ways before Dejphon takes his cut. He’s likely spent the vast majority of his money on us.

 

The FFP thing was an issue in like 2017-18 when we had a transfer embargo. I know we have one right now but that’s different. We have lots of breathing room within FFP over the last few seasons given the stadium sale but we still haven’t spent much. And if you have ample funds you don’t tend to pay players late or make excuses on refund a couple of million in ticket money during a pandemic. 

[Lord Snooty]

 

I think while we talk about the various permutations, team patterns and player selection we would be foolish to overlook the fact that these mean nothing without the right desire and commitment to the cause being shown at the same time. 

 

Too many times this season, whoever the manager, whatever system and the pattern of play we haven't always seen the application.

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 minute ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I think while we talk about the various permutations, team patterns and player selection we would be foolish to overlook the fact that these mean nothing without the right desire and commitment to the cause being shown at the same time. 

 

Too many times this season, whoever the manager, whatever system and the pattern of play we haven't always seen the application.

 

Agreed, the mentality is weak. Reach for example rightly took a lot of flak after Watford and then had an awesome game against Cardiff.

 

It was just one of those games where everything goes right. Good start and well worked set piece, then that second goal.. the ball in from Palmer is probably a 5/100 type cross for him and it’s a 5/100 type finish from Paterson. Then the free kick goes in and we’re 3-0 up after 20 mins with the sun out. Easy for some of them to enjoy the game at that point whereas when they have to dig in they don’t do it 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

This is all the same thing though, none of those things are mutually exclusive. And it boils down to playing two up front, with Rhodes preferred as first choice striker with a partner. And a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right.

 

I haven’t gone through the line ups for all 11 wins, bit busy today... but that’s generally been the formula that works. I’m sure we have won the odd game where it’s not been the case, but the stats are better when we have set up like that. I think from memory the game where we started with Paterson and Kachunga was Bournemouth away, which we won once Rhodes came on.

 

Would also say that of all our wide options, Reach is the one most capable of playing on the opposite wing. But he’s obviously better on the left.

 

 

 

It depends on the game.

 

There must be a reason why experienced football managers, who've forgotten more about the game about the game than we'll ever know, have decided against these variables on occasion.

[Lord Snooty]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

Agreed, the mentality is weak. Reach for example rightly took a lot of flak after Watford and then had an awesome game against Cardiff.

 

It was just one of those games where everything goes right. Good start and well worked set piece, then that second goal.. the ball in from Palmer is probably a 5/100 type cross for him and it’s a 5/100 type finish from Paterson. Then the free kick goes in and we’re 3-0 up after 20 mins with the sun out. Easy for some of them to enjoy the game at that point whereas when they have to dig in they don’t do it 

 

I saw Reach win a header on Saturday about 2 minutes in. 

Well, I say win a header. It hit his head.

But still...I knew then it was our day. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

5 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I think while we talk about the various permutations, team patterns and player selection we would be foolish to overlook the fact that these mean nothing without the right desire and commitment to the cause being shown at the same time. 

 

Too many times this season, whoever the manager, whatever system and the pattern of play we haven't always seen the application.

 

 

100%.

 

There have been some positive signs recently, but for the majority of the season, no matter how we've lined up, we've lacked the basics of application, effort and desire.

[CircleSeven]

5 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

He definitely doesn’t have the money though.. a quick google tells you the net worth of the Chansiri family and its way less than a billion. And then that’s split 3 ways before Dejphon takes his cut. He’s likely spent the vast majority of his money on us.

 

The FFP thing was an issue in like 2017-18 when we had a transfer embargo. I know we have one right now but that’s different. We have lots of breathing room within FFP over the last few seasons given the stadium sale but we still haven’t spent much. And if you have ample funds you don’t tend to pay players late or make excuses on refund a couple of million in ticket money during a pandemic. 

The fact that no one has any real idea about how rich or not our owner is is symptomatic of the lack of transparency around the club as a whole. 
Having a personal wealth of a billion pounds doesn’t help you long term in running a club if it doesn’t generate cash. If your personal wealth is for example property you can’t spend property of players. You have to sell it to get the cash out.  If your personal wealth is in shares of a tuna business and those shares generate big annual payments of cash then you can buy players and run a club. I don’t have any clue if DC is spending his capital or his income on running the club. If it’s his capital then he’s screwed. If it’s his income then we are fine. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

It depends on the game.

 

There must be a reason why experienced football managers, who've forgotten more about the game about the game than we'll ever know, have decided against these variables on occasion.

Well yeah.. if i was setting us up that’s how I’d do it, and then if the best 11 and round pegs in round holes approach didn’t work I’d be scratching my head and clueless on what to do next.

 

But sometimes these managers are overthinking it, setting up against the opposition a lot. Monk used to do that continually. When Pulis came in he played 1 up in every game and it was clear that he’d barely seen us play recently.. he was learning on the job effectively and had less knowledge of the team than the fans who watch us every week have