Supporters group applies to have Hillsborough classed as an asset of community value

[@owlstalk]

4 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

Appreciate the reply. I guess my only concern would be if I understand correctly? Is that at some point local councillors with God's knows what agenda could have a say in our club and the ownership. 

From experience of some councillor's not sure would want them anywhere a decision about our club. Politics and football etc, also if it makes us less attractive to a potential new buyer how is this a good thing?

I get the sentiment, but just seems unnecessary and overtly underhanded and political.

 

 

Politicians and councillors already get all kinds of favours behind the scenes by football clubs and vice versa- don't let's be thinking that doesn't happen - it does

Politics is very much engrained in the carpets at clubs

[Harrysgame]

2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Politicians and councillors already get all kinds of favours behind the scenes by football clubs and vice versa- don't let's be thinking that doesn't happen - it does

Politics is very much engrained in the carpets at clubs

Fully understand that; however the idea of some local committe deciding what candidates can't happen.. seen plenty of strange decisions from committees especially on planning etc. 

Just invites another complication to the ongoing saga.

Just not sure what the aim is other to cause potential issues if a buyer comes along.

[Tamworthowl]

From the Trust Q&A, first post on p3.
 

“What extra legal protections are given to an Asset of Community Value?

An asset of community value is subject to extra legal protections surrounding the development and ownership of the asset.
...
• Material planning consideration: ACV status is a material consideration in a planning application and can be used by the local planning authority and Planning Inspectorate as a factor in refusing planning permission for full or partial change of use or demolition. ACV status prevents the use of the asset been changed for certain types of development (i.e. Housing) that is not of benefit to the local community.”

 

For “housing” read “supermarket”.

 

If Chansiri, or any future owner, is putting a funding package together for a shiny new stadium, the whole package will be undermined by the ACV status preventing change of use to, for example, supermarket/retail, because the AVC reduces the value of the ground to any developer. 
 

There’s a reason many clubs don’t mind an ACV: they’ve got a decent stadium. Imagine the furore if Filbert St, Upton Park or Highbury had been covered by AVC status.

[Animis]

3 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

From the Trust Q&A, first post on p3.
 

“What extra legal protections are given to an Asset of Community Value?

An asset of community value is subject to extra legal protections surrounding the development and ownership of the asset.
...
• Material planning consideration: ACV status is a material consideration in a planning application and can be used by the local planning authority and Planning Inspectorate as a factor in refusing planning permission for full or partial change of use or demolition. ACV status prevents the use of the asset been changed for certain types of development (i.e. Housing) that is not of benefit to the local community.”

 

For “housing” read “supermarket”.

 

If Chansiri, or any future owner, is putting a funding package together for a shiny new stadium, the whole package will be undermined by the ACV status preventing change of use to, for example, supermarket/retail, because the AVC reduces the value of the ground to any developer. 
 

There’s a reason many clubs don’t mind an ACV: they’ve got a decent stadium. Imagine the furore if Filbert St, Upton Park or Highbury had been covered by AVC status.

 

You have to read all that in context:

 

There are many material considerations, which the planning officers have to consider and cover as part of any planning application. In this case an ACV would be one.

 

The ACV doesn't necessarily add anything to the planning process that isn't there already. All changes of use that have been granted for old football stadiums went through the same planning process without a ACV in place. Therefore, the ACV is just another check and balance. If the 'community' object to a supermarket or housing through the planning process, it has to be based on a material matter; if not it's dismissed. 

 

As i mentioned above, if DC or any owner of SWFC/Hillsborough wishes to move and relocate, they would have to satisfy planning on both the sale (Hillsborough) for alternative use to part fund the new ground, and the new ground. Getting community support for a move to a new ground would clearly be a challenge, and the ACV would be a vehicle for objectors.

 

This is where the issue could get messy, in let's say the club poll it's fans and there's 80% in favour of moving, but there's 20% who just use the ACV as a separate vehicle to object. This is where DC would find the thing very frustrating

[SWFC Trust]

21 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

From the Trust Q&A, first post on p3.
 

“What extra legal protections are given to an Asset of Community Value?

An asset of community value is subject to extra legal protections surrounding the development and ownership of the asset.
...
• Material planning consideration: ACV status is a material consideration in a planning application and can be used by the local planning authority and Planning Inspectorate as a factor in refusing planning permission for full or partial change of use or demolition. ACV status prevents the use of the asset been changed for certain types of development (i.e. Housing) that is not of benefit to the local community.”

 

For “housing” read “supermarket”.

 

If Chansiri, or any future owner, is putting a funding package together for a shiny new stadium, the whole package will be undermined by the ACV status preventing change of use to, for example, supermarket/retail, because the AVC reduces the value of the ground to any developer. 
 

There’s a reason many clubs don’t mind an ACV: they’ve got a decent stadium. Imagine the furore if Filbert St, Upton Park or Highbury had been covered by AVC status.

 

6 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

You have to read all that in context:

 

There are many material considerations, which the planning officers have to consider and cover as part of any planning application. In this case an ACV would be one.

 

The ACV doesn't necessarily add anything to the planning process that isn't there already. All changes of use that have been granted for old football stadiums went through the same planning process without a ACV in place. Therefore, the ACV is just another check and balance. If the 'community' object to a supermarket or housing through the planning process, it has to be based on a material matter; if not it's dismissed. 

 

As i mentioned above, if DC or any owner of SWFC/Hillsborough wishes to move and relocate, they would have to satisfy planning on both the sale (Hillsborough) for alternative use to part fund the new ground, and the new ground. Getting community support for a move to a new ground would clearly be a challenge, and the ACV would be a vehicle for objectors.

 

This is where the issue could get messy, in let's say the club poll it's fans and there's 80% in favour of moving, but there's 20% who just use the ACV as a separate vehicle to object. This is where DC would find the thing very frustrating

Thanks both, I've asked the Interim Chair of the Trust to have a look into this - will come back on it when I have a response. 

[Guest Grandad]

15 hours ago, pahowl said:

Sheffield Wednesday football club LTD have a 30 year lease from Sheffield 3 LTD so does this protect the club more than your ACV does ?

 

HAve you seen the terms in the lease?

 

5 hours ago, Sham67 said:

I can only see DC regarding this as a hostile act.  The trust may have just scuppered any chance of having a meaningful dialogue with the club.

 

You think theres a chance of MEANINGFUL dialogue?

[Tamworthowl]

21 minutes ago, Animis said:

 

You have to read all that in context:

 

There are many material considerations, which the planning officers have to consider and cover as part of any planning application. In this case an ACV would be one.

 

The ACV doesn't necessarily add anything to the planning process that isn't there already. All changes of use that have been granted for old football stadiums went through the same planning process without a ACV in place. Therefore, the ACV is just another check and balance. If the 'community' object to a supermarket or housing through the planning process, it has to be based on a material matter; if not it's dismissed. 

 

As i mentioned above, if DC or any owner of SWFC/Hillsborough wishes to move and relocate, they would have to satisfy planning on both the sale (Hillsborough) for alternative use to part fund the new ground, and the new ground. Getting community support for a move to a new ground would clearly be a challenge, and the ACV would be a vehicle for objectors.

 

This is where the issue could get messy, in let's say the club poll it's fans and there's 80% in favour of moving, but there's 20% who just use the ACV as a separate vehicle to object. This is where DC would find the thing very frustrating

 

“The ACV doesn't necessarily add anything to the planning process that isn't there already.”

 

That isn’t what the Trust Q&A says. Rather, it’s the opposite.

 

I appreciate that @SWFC Trust is taking this point away for clarification, but it’s fundamental to the whole discussion. What does an ACV do? Surely there should be absolute total clarity on this or any other issue members are consulted on.

[steelowl]

19 hours ago, Tamworthowl said:

Good point.

 

If a multi millionaire business man struggles to keep up, how will a group of working class supporters manage?

at least you haven't said 'successful' 

for 5 years no one has shown any evidence of it 

[Animis]

44 minutes ago, Tamworthowl said:

 

“The ACV doesn't necessarily add anything to the planning process that isn't there already.”

 

That isn’t what the Trust Q&A says. Rather, it’s the opposite.

 

I appreciate that @SWFC Trust is taking this point away for clarification, but it’s fundamental to the whole discussion. What does an ACV do? Surely there should be absolute total clarity on this or any other issue members are consulted on.

 

It's a statutory process/vehicle to ensure community assets receive a level of protection to avoid being sold and ultimately lost.

 

It somewhat forces owning bodies; normally public bodies, to consult and consider the impact of the loss of the asset to the community. They have to demonstrate that either the asset is of little value, or there are alternatives elsewhere. Each case is determined on it's merit, but it's safe to say the ACV were not envisaged for football grounds, rather village greens; open public spaces; community centres; libraries etc.

 

Of course, an ACV may be a good vehicle to ensure the clubs/owner consults with the community and gets buy-in to any move plans - for this, it can be a vehicle for good.

 

The 'value' element is purely subjective; a 'benefit' to the community, not cash.

 

Obviously the loss of a library for example can be argued that time's move on and most kids access readings material on-line. Of course, it could be argued that the library is an essential service for all the community, including the old who may not be able to access reading material on-line.

 

The same argument has been made about high-street banks, where it's generally 60 plus who uses banks, and there position it's not sustainable to have the current amount of banks - and i'm surprise there's not been more ACV on banks. I think Post Offices have benefited from listings as well as some pubs, where there are generally no other options in the area. 

[asteener1867]

20 hours ago, Silkstone Owl said:

To the layman what does that mean ??

I think it means that if Chansiri sells up , WE can buy the ground if we can afford to raise the cash, which we probably can't , which means "Meh"

[Sham67]

1 hour ago, Grandad said:

 

HAve you seen the terms in the lease?

 

 

You think theres a chance of MEANINGFUL dialogue?

No, not a chance.  I should have said extremely remote chance.

[@owlstalk]

 

 

This possibly needs an FAQ's in Sheffield bloke laymans terms to stop the usual crew jumping in to post their usual stuff

 

Break it down please @SWFC Trust - into a dummies guide 

 

(for the dummies)

[SWFC Trust]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

This possibly needs an FAQ's in Sheffield bloke laymans terms to stop the usual crew jumping in to post their usual stuff

 

Break it down please @SWFC Trust - into a dummies guide 

 

(for the dummies)

I'll do my best. Give me an hour or three. 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said:

I'll do my best. Give me an hour or three. 

 

Just needs proper dumbed down laymans terms - not jargonese 

Otherwise we'll be here all day with folks not understanding what the Trust is doing with this one and posting some reyt nonsense

 

 

[Hookowl]

14 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

This possibly needs an FAQ's in Sheffield bloke laymans terms to stop the usual crew jumping in to post their usual stuff

 

Break it down please @SWFC Trust - into a dummies guide 

 

(for the dummies)

 

[SWFC Trust]

Asset of Community Value (ACV): A Dummies Guide

 

What is an ACV? It is simply a label given to something (usually a building) that is seen to have value to a local community (examples libraries, parks, or football grounds)

 

Who decides whether somewhere is an ACV? It is applied for by a community organisation (in this case the SWFC Supporters' Trust) and decided upon by the council. 

What happens if the Council say yes it is an ACV? There are various legal protections added to the site, perhaps the key one for Hillsborough is that status ensures the local community (Council and Trust) will be informed of any attempt to sell the asset by its owner.

 

What happens if the owner does want to sell Hillsborough? He/she can do so, but must let the Council know. The council can either say that the sale is fine, for example if it is being sold to someone who wants to continue using Hillsborough as a football stadium. They can also put a hold on the sale of up to six months (called a moratorium).  

 

What happens if any sale is put on hold? Then the local community can decide whether it wants to bid for the stadium. There are various time frames related to this. 

 

Is the aim of this process for the Trust or the community to buy the ground? No, it is very unlikely that the Trust or community would be able to raise the finance to buy the ground

 

So, what is the point? There are several reasons, but one key one is transparency. An ACV means there must be openness from any owner of SWFC over the ownership of the ground. The council must be informed in advance of any potential sale, and in turn the Trust, local community and fanbase. The ACV has a symbolic status therefore of the importance of Hillsborough to fans and the community. 

 

Will this make SWFC less attractive to a new owner/investor?  The ACV is not a barrier to the sale / new investment into Sheffield Wednesday football club. 

 

What are the next steps? The Trust's members voted in favour of the Trust applying for, and aiming to secure, ACV status. The Trust will firstly clarify some points with the council, then look to put together a bid. In making that bid, we aim to gain the support of the club, politicians, the local community, and fanbase. If anything shows to us in that process that the application is wrong for SWFC, the community or fanbase, then we will return to our members and ask again. We are convinced so far that it is a positive step for all involved. 

 

Where can I learn more? We've published an extensive Q&A previously. Alternatively, ask questions here and I'll try and answer. Even better, join the Trust!
 

[SWFC Trust]

34 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Just needs proper dumbed down laymans terms - not jargonese 

Otherwise we'll be here all day with folks not understanding what the Trust is doing with this one and posting some reyt nonsense

 

 

Done - do you want to pop it up as a separate post for a bit?

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said:

Done - do you want to pop it up as a separate post for a bit?

 

 

Up to you mate - I'm happy with it yeah

[Silkstone Owl]

49 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said:

Asset of Community Value (ACV): A Dummies Guide

 

What is an ACV? It is simply a label given to something (usually a building) that is seen to have value to a local community (examples libraries, parks, or football grounds)

 

Who decides whether somewhere is an ACV? It is applied for by a community organisation (in this case the SWFC Supporters' Trust) and decided upon by the council. 

What happens if the Council say yes it is an ACV? There are various legal protections added to the site, perhaps the key one for Hillsborough is that status ensures the local community (Council and Trust) will be informed of any attempt to sell the asset by its owner.

 

What happens if the owner does want to sell Hillsborough? He/she can do so, but must let the Council know. The council can either say that the sale is fine, for example if it is being sold to someone who wants to continue using Hillsborough as a football stadium. They can also put a hold on the sale of up to six months (called a moratorium).  

 

What happens if any sale is put on hold? Then the local community can decide whether it wants to bid for the stadium. There are various time frames related to this. 

 

Is the aim of this process for the Trust or the community to buy the ground? No, it is very unlikely that the Trust or community would be able to raise the finance to buy the ground

 

So, what is the point? There are several reasons, but one key one is transparency. An ACV means there must be openness from any owner of SWFC over the ownership of the ground. The council must be informed in advance of any potential sale, and in turn the Trust, local community and fanbase. The ACV has a symbolic status therefore of the importance of Hillsborough to fans and the community. 

 

Will this make SWFC less attractive to a new owner/investor?  The ACV is not a barrier to the sale / new investment into Sheffield Wednesday football club. 

 

What are the next steps? The Trust's members voted in favour of the Trust applying for, and aiming to secure, ACV status. The Trust will firstly clarify some points with the council, then look to put together a bid. In making that bid, we aim to gain the support of the club, politicians, the local community, and fanbase. If anything shows to us in that process that the application is wrong for SWFC, the community or fanbase, then we will return to our members and ask again. We are convinced so far that it is a positive step for all involved. 

 

Where can I learn more? We've published an extensive Q&A previously. Alternatively, ask questions here and I'll try and answer. Even better, join the Trust!
 

TLDR

[Tamworthowl]

1 hour ago, SWFC Trust said:

Will this make SWFC less attractive to a new owner/investor?  The ACV is not a barrier to the sale / new investment into Sheffield Wednesday football club. 

 

What are the next steps? .... The Trust will firstly clarify some points with the council, then look to put together a bid. In making that bid, we aim to gain the support of the club, politicians, the local community,...

Sorry to be pedantic, but as I’m now defined (by Neil) as a dummy I need to point out that you have avoided answering the first question. Being “less attractive” is not the same as being “a barrier”. There are circumstances, more applicable to Hillsborough than many other grounds, where an ACV does make investment less attractive whilst not preventing that investment.

 

On the second question. Who/what do you consider to be the “local community” and how will you seek to get their support? Will you be out canvassing all the residents on Leppings Lane, Vere Rd, Middlewood Rd etc or what?