Neither Monk Nor Pulis Are The Real Problem

[gurujuan]

21 minutes ago, cowl said:

 

Slowness doesn't quite capture it though. Even that would give us hope that he'll eventually get it.

 

And just when I think he's exhausted all the errors that it's possible to make, he finds more; it's like he goes out of his way to be rubbish at what he does.

 

But he can't delegate, can he? That's the issue. The fact he doesn't know his arse from his elbow when it comes to football wouldn't be a problem (just as it isn't for all the other football owners that know f-all about the game) if he could only delegate.

No it doesn’t really capture it, you’re right there. Thing is, in a way he has delegated Most of the footballing decisions haven’t been made by him, or they’ve been made on the advice of somebody else. I’ve said all along, bar the initial season one recruitment, all the other choices are of a similar profile. Players and managers who may have been decent 10 years ago, but are now past it. Given that Chansiri had probably never heard of football 10 years ago, these have to be the choices of somebody else, albeit somebody equally out of touch

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

18 minutes ago, northeastowl said:

His track record at precious clubs? He was hated at West Brom and Middlesbrough (both clubs were doing average) and the fans stopped going. The only club I can remember doing anything at was Stoke and he didn’t do that on a shoe string budget. 
 

If you’re happy with Pulis’ that’s your prerogative, but I ain’t paying any money to watch his football.

 

I haven't said I'm happy with his appointment; just that he's an experienced manager with a track record in management - Middlesbrough and West Brom fans may not have liked his style, but he got them decent results.

[northeastowl]

4 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I haven't said I'm happy with his appointment; just that he's an experienced manager with a track record in management - Middlesbrough and West Brom fans may not have liked his style, but he got them decent results.

You’re sticking up for him quite well to say you’re not happy with him.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

10 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Everyone slating the guy but he had things right in his first twelve months

 

True; it's just the other 60 months which have been a disaster.

 

10 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Year two was where it all went wrong.. just gambling and it didn’t work out.

 

'Just gambling' is a pretty charitable way to characterise it, especially when it was the future of our club at stake.

 

I'd rather he build a sustainable, long-term plan rather than taking a chance on a short-term gamble.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Just now, northeastowl said:

You’re sticking up for him quite well to say you’re not happy with him.

 

As I say, I don't think the manager is the real problem at our club and hasn't been for quite some time now.

 

We can keep going back and forth about Pulis if you like, but it's sort of missing the point.

[canadianowl]

15 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Everyone slating the guy but he had things right in his first twelve months, the right set up with the transfer committee and willingness to spend what it takes. We just didn’t get over the line.

 

Year two was where it all went wrong.. just gambling and it didn’t work out.

 

I doubt he’s so stupid that he hasn’t learnt a lot running this club.. it’s just that since 2017 he’s not either been willing or able to spend money beyond paying off what he’d already committed to before that.

 

It wouldn’t matter if he’d learnt everything he needed to if he doesn’t have the money to improve us, as id say it’s a lack of finance that’s killed us over the last 3 seasons as we haven’t been able to improve the team.

 

Other clubs have faced similar issues though with FFP and needed new owners every 3-4 years while outside the P.L. Leicester, Wolves, Leeds, Forest, Derby, Villa all had similar problems, it’s just that some of those others got new owners and had another crack at it, getting over the line.

 

Feels like we won’t improve until we get sold on and a fresh injection of capital.. it’s just the business model outside the PL now. Main issue is will he actually sell as he does seem more stubborn than most and that’s his biggest weakness 

 

The lack of finances since 2017-18 had to do with FFP, so this year being 3 years of spending nothing sort of clears our ability to spend more next year. It's why Chansiri has been so frugal whilst frustrating the fans but if we can survive this year then next year he'll probably buy 6-8 more players. It's why he brought in Pulis for this season instead of rolling the dice on a young manager that would actually go for it. I don't think it will work this time though, I'm positive we'll be relegated under the current setup.

[northeastowl]

2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

As I say, I don't think the manager is the real problem at our club and hasn't been for quite some time now.

 

We can keep going back and forth about Pulis if you like, but it's sort of missing the point.

It isn’t missing the point. Everything is Chansiris fault. But as I said before please don’t tell me Pulis is the right man for us (it’s anti football poo ).

[WalthamOwl]

Chansiri and these pathetic players and an embarrassment to this club. I’m ashamed of what is happening on and off the pitch. 

[Sefton owl]

Largely agree. 
 

But what about the pathetic recruitment ‘policy’ in the summer? Sorry, but when you let a proven left back and a strike/s and a very reputable centre mid leave the club for nothing - who is to blame for that?

 

Were monks hands tied from the off? Did he have no say in fletch, fox, hutch and fessi leaving? 
 

We can pretend to be experts about the above but I doubt anyone on here really knows the truth. 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Sefton owl said:

Largely agree. 
 

But what about the pathetic recruitment ‘policy’ in the summer? Sorry, but when you let a proven left back and a strike/s and a very reputable centre mid leave the club for nothing - who is to blame for that?

 

Were monks hands tied from the off? Did he have no say in fletch, fox, hutch and fessi leaving? 
 

We can pretend to be experts about the above but I doubt anyone on here really knows the truth. 

 

 

Let's not forget that thing... 

What was it?

That thing...

Overspending, FFP, selling the stadium, high wages etc I think it was?

 

 

Why are we all forgetting that at the moment?

[striker]

1 hour ago, cowl said:

Chansiri won't learn.

 

That much is obvious. Our best hope (if he's not to sell up) is that he gets lucky at some point and appoints a manager that somehow just gets it right first time.

 

So looking on as a fan, that's all we've got to our hopes on.

 

Will it be Pulis? The signs aren't ‘good’ right now that much is certain. He'll get a window though and then we'll know whether we'll be needing to try a different arrangement of deckchairs.

He doesn't have to/or want to learn. It's a hobby for him, despite the money apparently spent, it is what it is. 

 

In his eyes you are only a fan if you agree with him, if you don't he doesn't give a throw. 

 

 

[marconi]

Just watching Norwich on Quest, it’s amazing how many chances Pukki is creating for himself.

 

Compare that to Rhodes, who apparently needs better service.

[Sefton owl]

15 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Let's not forget that thing... 

What was it?

That thing...

Overspending, FFP, selling the stadium, high wages etc I think it was?

 

 

Why are we all forgetting that at the moment?

Agreed, but I Strongly believe that had we replaced those who left the club in the summer then we wouldn’t be in the trouble we are in right now. 
 

Long term I agree it is a mess, but i just wonder had we recruited better in the summer then we wouldn’t be facing relegation. Simple as that.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Sefton owl said:

Agreed, but I Strongly believe that had we replaced those who left the club in the summer then we wouldn’t be in the trouble we are in right now.  

 

Honestly don't think we could afford to bring anyone in of note mate

 

Plus we had a 12 point deduction

Plus we had embargoes and had a reputation of not bringing in good players anymore etc

[Sefton owl]

17 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Honestly don't think we could afford to bring anyone in of note mate

 

Plus we had a 12 point deduction

Plus we had embargoes and had a reputation of not bringing in good players anymore etc

Well by that reckoning, maybe it was a lose lose situation. We either kept hold of the ‘crocks/ bad eggs’ that were on high wages that are by far and above what we currently have. Or we cut them loose like we have, to sustain us better in the long run financially. I really do believe it was a question of one or the other. 
 

What would people have gone with? Personally, the latter. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Sefton owl said:

Well by that reckoning, maybe it was a lose lose situation. We either kept hold of the ‘crocks/ bad eggs’  

@Therealrealist - BAD EGGS ALERT

[Guest Therealrealist]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

@Therealrealist - BAD EGGS ALERT

Yeah but you coined the phrase ‘bad eggs’..that’s what I meant

[Sefton owl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

@Therealrealist - BAD EGGS ALERT

Just quoting what other people have said not my personal opinion!

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Sefton owl said:

Just quoting what other people have said not my personal opinion!

 

I know - it wasn't anything against you mate - it was just that someone claimed nobody ever uses the phrase 'bad eggs' 

 

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

46 minutes ago, Sefton owl said:

Largely agree. 
 

But what about the pathetic recruitment ‘policy’ in the summer? Sorry, but when you let a proven left back and a strike/s and a very reputable centre mid leave the club for nothing - who is to blame for that?

 

Were monks hands tied from the off? Did he have no say in fletch, fox, hutch and fessi leaving? 
 

We can pretend to be experts about the above but I doubt anyone on here really knows the truth. 

 

Monk was on record as wanting to keep Fletcher and Fox, but we seemingly couldn't match Stoke's offer, so they left.

 

There's no way Monk wanted to lose Fletcher - he was our most important player last season, and Monk was getting more out of him than any of his previous Wednesday managers. Unfortunately, our points deduction and the P&S issues meant that we were a pretty unattractive proposition compared to Stoke City.

 

As for the recruitment - the chairman's previous actions had created godawful circumstances for our recruitment team to try and operate within - we had to jettison proven quality in order to cut costs, and replace them with cheap signings who'd be willing to join a club starting on minus twelve.

 

There's no way that Windass, Paterson, Marriott and Kachunga were all Monk's top choices - we were clearly after the likes of Leko and Zahore (among others, I'm sure), but they went elsewhere and our pool of options reduced further still. The notion that he was flicking through a catalogue of strikers and happily picked that bunch out is laughable.

 

Thanks to our previous overspending and the resultant points deduction, we were in no position to attract higher quality players and must have been among the least attractive Championship teams to join this pre-season.

 

The old adage 'beggars can't be choosers' rings true here, I'm afraid.