Neither Monk Nor Pulis Are The Real Problem

[Guest FoxOwl12]

If you look at Monks previous jobs he never had to build his own  team. He was given the opportunity at Wednesday and he failed. Our club needs building up from top to bottom, from the juniors to the first team, as well as a proper scouting system. Pulis may be the man to do it, I don't know. But that's what needs to be done and it ain't going to happen overnight. Listening to the Southampton v Blades commentary, apparently all Southamptons' teams from juniors to first team are all coached to play the same way, so that it is seamless transition, makes perfect sense to me.

[gurujuan]

7 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Not really. 
 

Only players missing from the current first team when we were third are Fletcher and Fox. Are you really telling me these two players were completely responsible for our collapse? I don’t believe that. Good players but replaceable. 

No the managers tactics were responsible, as they were this season with a different group of players, and definitely as they are now with Pulis. As soon as these two managers start to implement their own ideas, we fail miserably

[sonofbert2]

18 hours ago, Morepork said:

Yep, when Cakeball was your finest hour........

 

[Quist]

18 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Monk, despite what some on here seem to believe, had done decent to good jobs at Swansea, Leeds and Birmingham, with only Middlesbrough being an arguable underachievement on his CV before he struggled here.

 

Pulis, no matter what we might feel about his methods, is an experienced manager with a track record of getting results at many different clubs. Yet he rocks up here and we can't buy a win.

 

I don't believe either are bad managers. Their careers before taking the Hillsborough hot-seat should be enough to tell us that they know how to manage football teams provided the context in which they're working is reasonable.

 

We can argue the tøss about lineups, formations, substitutions, demeanour in interviews, choice of headwear etc... until the end of time if we like, but the issues at our club are much bigger than the man who happens to be in the dugout at any given time, I'm afraid.

 

All they're doing is shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst the man who slammed us into an iceberg and left us with this understrength, unbalanced squad and seemingly little chance to improve it, looks on from afar with no clear plan as to how to avoid the inevitable.

 

Years of mismanagement, lack of direction, incoherent planning, and sheer ineptitude have led us to this.

 

And that's down to Chansiri.

Firstly I think their is a lot of truth in what you are saying.

 

I would say the main problem is the person(s) who are advising DC. Think we can all agree DC has little idea on football and is dependant on advice. The key has to be get rid of the constant which is the advisor and has led to the current fiasco.

 

You say that managers had good reputations elsewhere which is true.

Monk replicated what he had done elsewhere he got off to a good start and then team got in a rut and he could not get them out of it. Pulis had done well in long career but recently his teams had been caught out as football has moved on but his style has not moved on. To be successful you need to adapt, Warnock is the ultimate his style has adapted and he is still performing. Wilder did well but his style has now been rumbled and he appears not to have a plan B. Carvalhal did well until style was rumbled this is replicated by many who have success but then can not repeat success. The change in way football is played now makes long ball game very difficult and no longer as effective as it used to be.

 

You are correct team has glaring problems in several areas with issues in key areas. In addition to left back, centre forward, right wing and goalkeeper think defensive midfield is an issue. Since Loungo got injured knee we have lacked player with bite in midfield and this is key to any side. When he came back was clearly not fit. 

 

In last two games we lost to teams who had  no stronger squad of player than ours They have new managers at helm and have selected unproven managers but look better off than we do. There is some belief current manager has good contacts in game, however we are currently unable to recruit a goalkeeping coach and his assistant was his third choice at least. Much talk about who we will recruit in January. Unfortunately this does not fill me with any encouragement as to who will be recruited.

 

I supported Monk until end as I was concerned who would replace him and thought it may take time with new coaching regime. With the likes of Poyet, Woodgate and Coleman being considered last time situation is grave if TP goes. Understand Alonso was first choice but he would not come. He is typical who came to country and had initial success but failed in last two roles even though received substantial funds in last role. 

 

Therefore first thing we must do is clear out advisor(s) who help DC before any other action is taken.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Quist said:

 I would say the main problem is the person(s) who are advising DC. Think we can all agree DC has little idea on football and is dependant on advice. The key has to be get rid of the constant which is the advisor and has led to the current fiasco. 

 

I've not pointed this out before but think I should

We've now got a situation where the advisor and his manager mate outnumber the chairman 2 to 1

 

Tell me how that's a good idea in any way...

[Quist]

22 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I've not pointed this out before but think I should

We've now got a situation where the advisor and his manager mate outnumber the chairman 2 to 1

 

Tell me how that's a good idea in any way...

It is not but it is the way agents work. They like to be in control and if rife for being shafted with players

 

It is wrong for same team of agents to represent managers and players and also officials at a club. 

 

I am in minority but think DC has tried hard for success but his failure has been his reliance on wrong advice. 

 

TP is just in this for money. I have just seen where he said he was not aware we had a few sending offs prior to his arrival. This means he had not watched videos of previous games we were involved in which is a shocking admission. It explains some of the more bizarre decisons which have been made. This comment was said by him after a sending off in a game we played.

 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Quist said:

 TP is just in this for money. I have just seen where he said he was not aware we had a few sending offs prior to his arrival. 

 

Please tell me you're kidding

[Quist]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Please tell me you're kidding

No he said it in one of press conferences go through them. 

 

To be honest I stepped away as thought this appointment would make me ill but recent results meant I went through some things to day. It is actually worse than I feared.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, Quist said:

No he said it in one of press conferences go through them. 

 

To be honest I stepped away as thought this appointment would make me ill but recent results meant I went through some things to day. It is actually worse than I feared.

 

So he doesn't know his team, doesn't know how many cards they're on, and has to call other people to decide who to pick for first team matches

Gets better and better

[SallyCinnamon]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I've not pointed this out before but think I should

We've now got a situation where the advisor and his manager mate outnumber the chairman 2 to 1

 

Tell me how that's a good idea in any way...

I’m sorry but can we stop peddling this idea that Pulis was just hired because he was ‘mates’ with Paixao. Has this even been officially confirmed? Everyone knows everyone in football. Just because they know each other doesn’t mean they’re mates ffs. 
 

Pulis was most likely hired because of his excellent win ratio at this level and the fact he’s never been relegated as a manager. If Pulis was just here in a jobs for old boys scenario he would not have been as outspoken about the dire situation we are in. 
 

In a few weeks he’s been more critical of the situation at the club than Monk was in an entire year at the club. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

I’m sorry but can we stop peddling this idea that Pulis was just hired because he was ‘mates’ with Paixao.  

I've not said that once.

[SallyCinnamon]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

I've not said that once.

You’ve insinuated it.

 

‘We've now got a situation where the advisor and his manager mate outnumber the chairman 2 to 1’

 

Direct quote from above. You are assuming Paixao and Pulis are mates. Do you know this? Agents know other agents. It’s football, it happens. How on earth do you know Chansiri has been outnumbered in this situation? You don’t so why suggest it? 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

You’ve insinuated it. 

Nope - not even close mate

I've not said anything about how or why Pulis was recruited

Have another try

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

Nope - not even close mate

I've not said anything about how or why Pulis was recruited

Have another try

Ok then answer me this. Why are we in a position where advisor and manager outnumber the chairman? Why have you come to this conclusion and on what evidence do you believe this is now the case? I’ll remind you of what you said below: 

 

 

‘We've now got a situation where the advisor and his manager mate outnumber the chairman 2 to 1’

[SallyCinnamon]

41 minutes ago, Quist said:

It is not but it is the way agents work. They like to be in control and if rife for being shafted with players

 

It is wrong for same team of agents to represent managers and players and also officials at a club. 

 

I am in minority but think DC has tried hard for success but his failure has been his reliance on wrong advice. 

 

TP is just in this for money. I have just seen where he said he was not aware we had a few sending offs prior to his arrival. This means he had not watched videos of previous games we were involved in which is a shocking admission. It explains some of the more bizarre decisons which have been made. This comment was said by him after a sending off in a game we played.

 

Monk had the same agent as a few first team players. Sam Winnall for example. 
 

He never played him. 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Ok then answer me this. Why are we in a position where advisor and manager outnumber the chairman?  

errrr....... 

 

cos there's two of them and one of him?

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

errrr....... 

 

cos there's two of them and one of him?

Eh? Why what do Pulis and Paixao plan on doing? Why do they want to outnumber him? How do you know Pulis and Paixao are better friends than Chansiri and Paixao? 
 

Really confused at what you’re trying to get at here 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Eh? Why what do Pulis and Paixao plan on doing? Why do they want to outnumber him? How do you know Pulis and Paixao are better friends than Chansiri and Paixao? 
 

Really confused at what you’re trying to get at here 

 

 

Don't worry about it

Let's see how things pan out

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Don't worry about it

Let's see how things pan out

I’m skeptical of what goes on at Wednesday behind the scenes who is making the decisions etc but I just don’t think everything that happens is untoward or has some kind of malice behind it. 
 

If it was a case of Pulis and Paixao grabbing the money or whatever, why didn’t Pulis join last year when he was favourite for the job? 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, SallyCinnamon said:

I’m skeptical of what goes on at Wednesday behind the scenes who is making the decisions etc but I just don’t think everything that happens is untoward or has some kind of malice behind it. 
 

If it was a case of Pulis and Paixao grabbing the money or whatever, why didn’t Pulis join last year when he was favourite for the job? 

 

 

I've not said anyone's grabbing money at all

 

Not even hinted or suggested or pointed anything towards that