bradowl Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) Rotherham owner/chairman Tony Stewart reckons there's up to 10 EFL clubs on verge of going bust. Don't know which clubs but I should think Southend is one of them and I wouldn't be surprised if Sunderland was one of em. Edited September 25, 2020 by bradowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 If it’s true that we are bidding £500k to bring Paterson from Cardiff to Wednesday, then we can’t be in trouble financially as I can’t believe a club would be paying transfer fees if the current pandemic had placed their existence going forward under threat. Looking at the bigger picture and it wouldn’t sit well with me tax payers money being used to bail out football clubs when Premier Clubs are currently spending tens of millions of pounds on new players (Chelsea and Man City alone have spent over £300m this summer). The Premier League benefits from there being a football league ladder and there is more than enough money in the a Premier League to ensure that ladder exists going forward. I would much rather see tax payers money being used to help small business owners etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 It's quite clear what us lower league fans want from all of this: The EFL to stop being under the thumb of the EPL The EFL to make their own rules based on what EFL clubs want, not what the EPL want, so we can choose the path of unsustainable finance, thank you very much The EPL to continue solidarity payments to EFL clubs to help try and keep our finances sustainable. The EPL to increase solidarity payments to EFL clubs to help try and keep our finances even more sustainable in an iustable world. But please, don't forget and we must be very clear about this, us in the EFL want nothing to do with the nasty EPL and their tainted selfish SKYTv money. Do you think Ryanair will be giving money to Easyjet? Primark giving money to John Lewis? Airbus giving money to Boeing? Takeovers yes, investment in return for shares yes, but direct transfers of money for the sake of keeping afloat businesses that are otherwise failing? You won't see it elsewhere I suspect. Bailouts don't help football, whether that'd be from Govt or from the EPL. It just lets the good times roll for the select few, just like the bank bailouts did. It didn't stop job losses in the High Street branches, but it allowed those at the top to remain there and continue high salaries that clearly they weren't earning. In football, you would be bailing out businesses that have chosen to pay £Ms a year to a handful of people, at the risk of the sustainability of the business and the risk of job losses within that business. Or alternatively, you let as many football businesses fail as needed before you realise that a a football player in a club ranked say 50th in the pyramid is not worth the same as 20 nurses and clubs come to their senses; either individually, or as a collective, and you press a massive RESET button on the whole shebang. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Manwë said: But please, don't forget and we must be very clear about this, us in the EFL want nothing to do with the nasty EPL and their tainted selfish SKYTv money. As long as the relegated Prem league clubs come down with £45M of failure money we can't opt out Edited September 28, 2020 by daveyboy66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54322650 The cynic in me wonders whether, privately, the PL, broadcasters and maybe even government wouldn't mind a few going to the wall. Push it towards an American style franchise model with fewer clubs at the top and the rest becoming feeders for the elite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54322650 The cynic in me wonders whether, privately, the PL, broadcasters and maybe even government wouldn't mind a few going to the wall. Push it towards an American style franchise model with fewer clubs at the top and the rest becoming feeders for the elite. Do you actually think that these Tory tw@s care about communities outside London ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Just now, daveyboy66 said: Do you actually think that these Tory tw@s care about communities outside London ? Fair point - although with the fall of the 'Red Wall' it might be politically prudent of the Tories to make a big deal about saving these clubs to help their communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, daveyboy66 said: Do you actually think that these Tory tw@s care about communities outside London ? Do you believe Governments of any coloured rosette should step in and subsidise the wages of players that earn several times the average wage of the town the play in? Remember, that subsidy will come from the pockets of workers of all spectrums, and where society at large will have more pressing needs and requirements than that of footballers. Yes or no, should your taxes subsidise the higher wages of footballers? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Manwë said: Do you think Ryanair will be giving money to Easyjet? Primark giving money to John Lewis? Airbus giving money to Boeing? In fairness I don’t think you can compare the two, Premier League clubs benefit greatly from the existence of the football league ladder. Whether it be through giving their own academy products first team experience or picking up young players from other academies, they do benefit from these clubs and should the football league ladder collapse (as has been suggested today), it would be very much to the detriment of youth development in the U.K. and this would have a negative affect on Premier League clubs and their ability to develop young players. Premier League clubs probably already know this but they’d rather keep their money in their pockets and have the tax payer pick up the tab instead. I don’t think Ryanair and EasyJet have the same sort of relationship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 According to payscale, the average wage in Sheffield is £26k (https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Location=Sheffield-England%3A-Sheffield/Salary) The average person in England & Wales on £26k a year will pay £4678 in tax and NI (https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/estimate-paye-take-home-pay/your-results?). It means it would take 8 working Sheffielders annual taxes to pay for Jordan Rhodes salary for the week, or the taxes of 416 Sheffielders to pay his salary for the year. Then there's the rest of the squad to pay for. Yes or no, is this where anti-Tories want their tax money spent, because any Govt help looks an awful lot like transfer of wealth from the poor workers to the wealthy of private businesses to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever the pessimist Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Manwë said: According to payscale, the average wage in Sheffield is £26k (https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Location=Sheffield-England%3A-Sheffield/Salary) The average person in England & Wales on £26k a year will pay £4678 in tax and NI (https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/estimate-paye-take-home-pay/your-results?). It means it would take 8 working Sheffielders annual taxes to pay for Jordan Rhodes salary for the week, or the taxes of 416 Sheffielders to pay his salary for the year. Then there's the rest of the squad to pay for. Yes or no, is this where anti-Tories want their tax money spent, because any Govt help looks an awful lot like transfer of wealth from the poor workers to the wealthy of private businesses to me. It's a fair point - for me, when I picture the clubs and communities that need (deserve?) help I usually imagine those in leagues 1 and 2, often in close proximity to an enormous club / clubs who dominate the region. The likes of Rochdale, Bury, Oldham, Leyton Orient, Barnet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said: In fairness I don’t think you can compare the two, Premier League clubs benefit greatly from the existence of the football league ladder. Whether it be through giving their own academy products first team experience or picking up young players from other academies, they do benefit from these clubs and should the football league ladder collapse (as has been suggested today), it would be very much to the detriment of youth development in the U.K. and this would have a negative affect on Premier League clubs and their ability to develop young players. Premier League clubs probably already know this but they’d rather keep their money in their pockets and have the tax payer pick up the tab instead. I don’t think Ryanair and EasyJet have the same sort of relationship. That's fair enough, but then the relationship arrangement you're looking for is that of "grassroots" and "feeder", ie, the lower league clubs exist to ensure the elite game is constantly fed. The EPL benefit from the threat of relegation for sure, but that's only to/from one division; the Championship. If League Two didn't happen, I'm sure they couldn't care less. There's always been murmurings about ending relegation and making it a closed shop; I wonder if that's back on the agenda more than anything else. They'd save money on parachute payments and solidarity payments for a start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwë Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Ever the pessimist said: It's a fair point - for me, when I picture the clubs and communities that need (deserve?) help I usually imagine those in leagues 1 and 2, often in close proximity to an enormous club / clubs who dominate the region. The likes of Rochdale, Bury, Oldham, Leyton Orient, Barnet.... Bury folded before Covid came along. But even still, the average player at Oldham say will be earning more than the average person in Oldham. It's all relative, even if the numbers are smaller. A Footballers salary is higher than that of society around them in almost all cases, certainly in the UK. It would still mean that taxes paid by your lorry driver, baker, binman, teacher, welder would go to funding the higher wages of others. According to this (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/leaked-report-reveals-how-much-18169396) , League Two average salary is £113k. If I want to support a business, at the prices they set, in order to pay their staff then that's my choice. If I choose not to, I shouldn't expect a deduction from my paypacket, or my public services to be cut so the wealthy can buy another house or car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildatheart67 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Always thought the Premier league had income of £3 Billion a year. Turns out Prem wages alone are £2,900,000,000. Premier income a year is closer to £5 billion. So I guess the Premier League might well be saying to gov. that the tax take each year,is enough of a contribution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-owls Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 In 2019/20 the total wage in the Premier League was roughly £2,102,950,000. Just think how much tax was paid into the system? Footballers should do more? Why, they're contributing hundreds of millions already. The buck stops with those in charge of looking after that money, and quite frankly at the moment I'd feel safer if Coronavirus gave us a press conference explaining how it would keep us safe from the government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, mildatheart67 said: Always thought the Premier league had income of £3 Billion a year. Turns out Prem wages alone are £2,900,000,000. Premier income a year is closer to £5 billion. So I guess the Premier League might well be saying to gov. that the tax take each year,is enough of a contribution. Income for the Premier league in broadcast rights alone from Sky, Amazon, Bt and overseas brings in £9 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildatheart67 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I think the £3 billion is closer on wages ,the big 6 , apparently pay out £1.7 B alone. The solidarity payment to Div 2 is £5 million for the entire league. Baubles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 On 23/09/2020 at 15:57, nickywire said: it seriously time for pay cuts across footballers while less than 50% of fans aren't allowed 35% in Prem 20% in Champ 10% in League 1 5% in League 2 Some lower paid youth players etc should be excemp Half of the money from Prem is then paid split across the 3 lower divisions to the club to help cover the shortfall. Of couse this won't happen because footballers have a strong union unlike all us mugs who have let our right be eroded. I can see double digits of clubs going bust over next six months without some serious help, which will impact on fans losing any money owned on tickets etc, never mind the potential complete loss of their local club. The problem with players taking that much reduction in the Premier League is the money saved will go straight into the hands of Billionaire owners. Look at what happend to Arsenal, they reluctantly took a wage deferral claiming money would end up in Kronke's pocket and they still made staff redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, TrickyTrev said: If it’s true that we are bidding £500k to bring Paterson from Cardiff to Wednesday, then we can’t be in trouble financially as I can’t believe a club would be paying transfer fees if the current pandemic had placed their existence going forward under threat. Looking at the bigger picture and it wouldn’t sit well with me tax payers money being used to bail out football clubs when Premier Clubs are currently spending tens of millions of pounds on new players (Chelsea and Man City alone have spent over £300m this summer). The Premier League benefits from there being a football league ladder and there is more than enough money in the a Premier League to ensure that ladder exists going forward. I would much rather see tax payers money being used to help small business owners etc. Completely agree and on that if a premier league club can afford to pay players £100,000 a week plus then they can afford to pay for everything else. If they are struggling ofload or terminate playing staff. I read this weekend that Kante at Chelsea is on £290,000 a week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildatheart67 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 In the old days the top league took 50 percent if tv revenue, Div2 proper 25 and the bottom two 12.5 percent each. Course in Premiership shake up a deal was agreed bottom teams would take a much smaller percentage of a bigger pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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