Financial Impact of Covid 19 on Wednesday 2020/21

[Ever the pessimist]

24 minutes ago, g-owls said:

In 2019/20 the total wage in the Premier League was roughly £2,102,950,000.

 

Just think how much tax was paid into the system?

 

Footballers should do more? Why, they're contributing hundreds of millions already.

 

The buck stops with those in charge of looking after that money, and quite frankly at the moment I'd feel safer if Coronavirus gave us a press conference explaining how it would keep us safe from the government.

 

As if all, or even most, PL players pay the requisite level of tax for their earnings. They'll have salaries paid as image rights etc to circumvent the tax man.

[Ever the pessimist]

31 minutes ago, Manwë said:

 

Bury folded before Covid came along.  

Yes - I know.

31 minutes ago, Manwë said:

 

But even still, the average player at Oldham say will be earning more than the average person in Oldham.  It's all relative, even if the numbers are smaller.  A Footballers salary is higher than that of society around them in almost all cases, certainly in the UK.  It would still mean that taxes paid by your lorry driver, baker, binman, teacher, welder would go to funding the higher wages of others. According to this (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/leaked-report-reveals-how-much-18169396) , League Two average salary is £113k.

 

If I want to support a business, at the prices they set, in order to pay their staff then that's my choice.  If I choose not to, I shouldn't expect a deduction from my paypacket, or my public services to be cut so the wealthy can buy another house or car.  

 

That figure for league two is obscene if true.

 

I am not saying that I necessarily agree with it, just playing devil's advocate. Should the government be helping out theatres, the arts etc like they have been doing?

[Manwë]

2 hours ago, Ever the pessimist said:

Should the government be helping out theatres, the arts etc like they have been doing?

 

If they are protecting jobs, then yes they should.  If they are protecting just a handful of very well paid jobs then I don't think so.   Theatres won't be getting solidarity payments from other theatres, or TV rights deals, or advertisements on the shirts of Hamlet, or selling thousands of replica Romeo outfits to wear around town etc or a whole host of other revenue streams

 

Football is somewhat different in that the wages at football  are obscene compared to most other jobs in society, in a sector where there are tonnes of cash going to agents, to players, to other clubs.  League Two clubs paid over £1m to agents last year.  The money is there, but the clubs have put the money into the pockets of a certain few above all else.  The work is still there to do (play football), but the market that previously had decided high wages has changed dramatically and I don't believe you can ask for money with one hand to secure your business, and be paying agents and players £Ms with the other hand.   

 

I know Sheffield Wednesday are more than the players, and those jobs that are everything from ticket sales, admin, cleaners, bar staff, groundsmen etc should be protected because they are largely lower paying and we don't want people to be destitute in 2020.  Saving millionaires wages is not in that particular equation.  

 

Throwing money at clubs that are throwing money away to millionaires when jobs are being lost in every town in the country, and people are dying through this virus and indirect effects.  Not justifiable in my opinion.

[Ever the pessimist]

58 minutes ago, Manwë said:

 

If they are protecting jobs, then yes they should.  If they are protecting just a handful of very well paid jobs then I don't think so.   Theatres won't be getting solidarity payments from other theatres, or TV rights deals, or advertisements on the shirts of Hamlet, or selling thousands of replica Romeo outfits to wear around town etc or a whole host of other revenue streams

 

Football is somewhat different in that the wages at football  are obscene compared to most other jobs in society, in a sector where there are tonnes of cash going to agents, to players, to other clubs.  League Two clubs paid over £1m to agents last year.  The money is there, but the clubs have put the money into the pockets of a certain few above all else.  The work is still there to do (play football), but the market that previously had decided high wages has changed dramatically and I don't believe you can ask for money with one hand to secure your business, and be paying agents and players £Ms with the other hand.   

 

I know Sheffield Wednesday are more than the players, and those jobs that are everything from ticket sales, admin, cleaners, bar staff, groundsmen etc should be protected because they are largely lower paying and we don't want people to be destitute in 2020.  Saving millionaires wages is not in that particular equation.  

 

Throwing money at clubs that are throwing money away to millionaires when jobs are being lost in every town in the country, and people are dying through this virus and indirect effects.  Not justifiable in my opinion.

So again, it comes down to football protecting the players rather than the little guy. Much like how players and clubs are the creditors to get paid when a club goes into administration rather than St John’s Ambulance etc.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

8 hours ago, mildatheart67 said:

Always thought the Premier league had income of £3 Billion a year.

 

Turns out Prem wages alone are £2,900,000,000.

Premier income a year is closer to £5 billion.

 

So I guess the Premier League might well be saying to gov. that the tax take each year,is enough of a contribution.

 

 

 

I don't think you will find even one premier league first teamer on PAYE.

[bradowl]

On 28/09/2020 at 12:42, Ever the pessimist said:

Yes - I know.

 

That figure for league two is obscene if true.

 

I am not saying that I necessarily agree with it, just playing devil's advocate. Should the government be helping out theatres, the arts etc like they have been doing?

It is a ridiculous amount of money at that level though a footballers career is a short one with most ending before they're 35. 

Read today about a Aldershot player worrying about them not being paid if National League season doesn't go ahead, revealed that he's on £500 a week, not a massive wage but more than a lot of people. 

[Kew Owl]

Article in the Sports Section of last Thursdays Daily Telegraph has a chart showing the projected income loss of all Championship Clubs since lockdown up to May 2021.

 

We are projected to be hardest hit of all clubs - £23million, which is almost twice as much as the next club, Norwich who come in at £12.2 million. Only two other clubs in the division - Watford and Derby - come in at over £ 10million.  
 

Quite why we’re predicted to lose twice as much as virtually every other club is not explained, unfortunately.

[Guest Hornsby]

On 23/09/2020 at 18:43, Hookowl said:

 

I don't believe stadium costs count towards P&S

Rent does.

[trev]

9 hours ago, Kew Owl said:

Article in the Sports Section of last Thursdays Daily Telegraph has a chart showing the projected income loss of all Championship Clubs since lockdown up to May 2021.

 

We are projected to be hardest hit of all clubs - £23million, which is almost twice as much as the next club, Norwich who come in at £12.2 million. Only two other clubs in the division - Watford and Derby - come in at over £ 10million.  
 

Quite why we’re predicted to lose twice as much as virtually every other club is not explained, unfortunately.

 

Be interesting to know where they get these figures from..seems very strange?

 

Are we so different to clubs like derby or forest?

[Guest Hornsby]

13 hours ago, trev said:

 

Be interesting to know where they get these figures from..seems very strange?

 

Are we so different to clubs like derby or forest?

In addition to three million a year rent to Chansiri's firm, Rhodes and Westy alone cost club £7 million a year gross. 

 

So that's currently £10 million a year not productive.

 

With that cost base, plus big season ticket income pre -paid years ago, could easy rack up massive losses. 

[Nero]

1 hour ago, Hornsby said:

In addition to three million a year rent to Chansiri's firm, Rhodes and Westy alone cost club £7 million a year gross. 

 

So that's currently £10 million a year not productive.

 

With that cost base, plus big season ticket income pre -paid years ago, could easy rack up massive losses. 

Theres rounduns

Double rounduns 

But youve managed triple rounduns! Well done.

[Nero]

On 30/09/2020 at 08:36, Kew Owl said:

Article in the Sports Section of last Thursdays Daily Telegraph has a chart showing the projected income loss of all Championship Clubs since lockdown up to May 2021.

 

We are projected to be hardest hit of all clubs - £23million, which is almost twice as much as the next club, Norwich who come in at £12.2 million. Only two other clubs in the division - Watford and Derby - come in at over £ 10million.  
 

Quite why we’re predicted to lose twice as much as virtually every other club is not explained, unfortunately.

The figures i took the trouble to work out and put at the start are from our accounts. 10m loss estimate in income due to covid.

Our income is only 27m in total so the article is rubbish.

What is true is that as we dont receive parachute payments and we have high matchday income we are disproportionately affected.

Its all irrelevant however if the owner is willing to fund and ffp is suspended.

[soldierboyblue]

On 28/09/2020 at 21:02, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

I don't think you will find even one premier league first teamer on PAYE.

I think most will be - as they can't be owned by a 3rd party. Tevez springs to mind

[Plonk]

Just reading an article in the stoke sentinel where the Sunderland chairman is saying leagues 1 and 2 can last another three weeks and they need to look at “ mothballing” all the clubs and stopping the league to avoid mass administration. 
This is really hitting hard now. Chuck in the number of positive tests clubs are having and how long can football pretend everything’s ok 

[striker]

1 hour ago, Plonk said:

Just reading an article in the stoke sentinel where the Sunderland chairman is saying leagues 1 and 2 can last another three weeks and they need to look at “ mothballing” all the clubs and stopping the league to avoid mass administration. 
This is really hitting hard now. Chuck in the number of positive tests clubs are having and how long can football pretend everything’s ok 

It can't, the EFL clubs are in real trouble, fighting for their existence, while PL clubs still chucking hundreds of millions around in fees alone, paying individual players more in a week than many EFL clubs pay their entire playing staff in a month and EFL waiting, begging for scraps. 

 

EFL need to get their head out of their arse and earn their keep. 

[Guest Mcguigan]

1 hour ago, striker said:

It can't, the EFL clubs are in real trouble, fighting for their existence, while PL clubs still chucking hundreds of millions around in fees alone, paying individual players more in a week than many EFL clubs pay their entire playing staff in a month and EFL waiting, begging for scraps. 

 

EFL need to get their head out of their arse and earn their keep. 

What would you suggest they do?

[striker]

51 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

What would you suggest they do?

Something! 

 

They've had months to plan, consult with the Government for support, develop a strategy to be less reliant on the PL, engage with the PFA and FA to reduce costs, seek emergency funding support.

 

Football (not PL) needs a bailout similar to that of the hospitality and arts sectors from the government while they are effectively shut down and restricted from hosting fans and therefore generating revenue.. 

 

EFL also need to stop being so reliant on PL handouts. The PL needs promotion and relegation as much as the EFL need the carrot of the PL, as so the broadcasters. I'd like the EFL to be bolder, seek to diverge (or at least have a credible threat of doing so) backed up by the FA in order to seek a greater independence over TV rights. 

 

Step one of that would be to disperse PL parachute money through the EFL leagues from teams who are promoted while still in receipt, rather than that going back into the PL pot. That alone may keep many L1 and L2 clubs going for the next few months. 

 

Ultimately, not my job to suggest, the EFL exist to protect their member clubs and are not doing that anywhere near adequately.

[Guest Hornsby]

23 hours ago, soldierboyblue said:

I think most will be - as they can't be owned by a 3rd party. Tevez springs to mind

See last week's Abramovich revelations showing he still owned loads of players, though now called Third Party Investment.

 

Including one striker who played against Chelsea in Champions League.

 

Interesting , he invested with Doyen here. Wonder if Joao was part of this.