Steven Fletcher to Stoke City

[Sergeant Tibbs]

18 minutes ago, deano said:

I recall Hooper and FF were usually first choice but maybe that's my memory. 

In his first game he was partnered with FF but took a blow to the head. 
For me never really fired until partnered with Hooper, who had his most prolific period at that time for us. 
Fletcher really came into his own last year, really bullying opposing centre halves, players could run in behind and generally we looked a threat going forward. 

[Costello 77]

Just now, parajack said:

 

No future at? Wasnt Fletcher offered a further contract at Wednesday? & turned it down? Plenty of Players have spent their entire career at one Club...it  is a choice

Following money/career progression isn't a Wednesday specific thing.

It's something that all supporters have learned to live with.

We just hope that they show as much passion as us while they're here.

And he did imo..

[parajack]

7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

You seemingly read what you want and ignore the other points. I'll copy the bit out again for your benefit in which I clearly stated it is not something I agree with, hope this helps.

 

Like I say, it was a disappointing way to end and not something I would have advocated but sometimes you have to look at it from their perspective. I think all players should have played on to the end of the season but the power has been with the players for many years and plenty went down this route.

 

I never referred to anyone as 'heroes' and as said previously, the players do not control our finances, no player put a gun to the head of the club saying we must agree to pay them this or else, we could have said no.

Hero's? Your reading facts not in evidence mate,thats my opinion,i will happily apoligise if you can cut & paste where I said you said it...I respond to the points in your post i disagree with,& offer an alternative view.Its not persuasive to you,and your view isnt persuasive to me!...Thats it,if it was, I would say so....

Edited August 15, 2020 by parajack

[Plonk]

28 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I agree with this in all respects.

 

My only reservation with Fletcher would be if he really did pretend to be injured in that last appearance. That would be a sh*thouse thing to do.

Of course it would but I’m afraid it’s another indisputable fact, because it’s been repeated on here so many times that it’s now true. Like Westwood and Hutch are bad eggs Carlos is a Crap  manager FTC etc.

[parajack]

4 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Yeah, and I stick by that. Nothing to do with Fletcher’s goals output though. If it wasn’t Monk’s tactics, the only other explanation is that the players were ignoring the managers instructions. That can happen of course, when players are lacking in confidence, they will often take the easy way out. Either way though, it’s down to Monk to change that

And again Monk.. he is changing it,but it clearly couldn't be done overnight...Bruce said it needed 4 transfer windows.....Fans largely accepted that,but still we see posts on here saying Monk should have been able to do something different to Bruce's timescale......

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, parajack said:

And again Monk.. he is changing it,but it clearly couldn't be done overnight...Bruce said it needed 4 transfer windows.....Fans largely accepted that,but still we see posts on here saying Monk should have been able to do something different to Bruce's timescale......

I’m in agreement, he will need time to make the changes, but in relation to Fletcher specifically, did the tactics get the most out of him? The wider argument of how much time it will take to rebuild the squad is where I agree, it may well take a few windows. However, because we’ve had such an extensive clear out, and the squad is threadbare, there is a pressure for the bulk of the rebuild to be done now. This is tricky because we obviously need to bring quite a few players in, but we can’t afford to bring players in who we may need to replace a year down the line. That’s why it makes sense to do the bulk of the recruitment through the loan market

[Worksop Wednesday]

1 hour ago, edinburghowl said:

I think a big thing that people are overlooking too is the fact he will start and play regular football at Stoke. He wouldn’t get that at Celtic. That’s a big thing when a footballer is at his stage of his career. 
 

The Celtic fans were up in arms about the prospect of him signing too, they weren’t keen on him at all and didn’t think he was good enough. It would have been an uphill battle for him from the off, he would have scored goals and been decent enough for Celtic as a squad player though no doubt about it.

 

He'll start and play regular football at Stoke as he has done for SWFC for last 4 years - FITNESS allowing 

 

SF to NL - How much game time might I expect at Celtic given you have other strikers younger and fitter than me  ?

 

NL - SF - Given your injury record at SWFC how much game time might I expect you to give me ?!

[Lawrie Madden]

1 hour ago, parajack said:

 

No future at? Wasnt Fletcher offered a further contract at Wednesday? & turned it down? Plenty of Players have spent their entire career at one Club...it  is a choice

Was he offered a contract ? 

 

And if so he had refused the contract before the re-start so he had no future at the club 

 

Chill he's not a Wednesday Fan not that that would matter, as far as i can see he behaved totally professionally and in my opinion gave 100% when he played for us so no complaints about him as player nor as person 

[Jim]

1 hour ago, parajack said:

And again Monk.. he is changing it,but it clearly couldn't be done overnight...Bruce said it needed 4 transfer windows.....Fans largely accepted that,but still we see posts on here saying Monk should have been able to do something different to Bruce's timescale......

 

I think most of us would’ve trusted Bruce to do what was necessary because of his track record. **** hasn’t got anywhere near  Bruce’s gravitas in the game and has just overseen one of the worst half season’s we’ve had this century. So understandably there is quite a bit of doubt around whether **** can do the job that’s required here?

[parajack]

36 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

I think most of us would’ve trusted Bruce to do what was necessary because of his track record. **** hasn’t got anywhere near  Bruce’s gravitas in the game and has just overseen one of the worst half season’s we’ve had this century. So understandably there is quite a bit of doubt around whether **** can do the job that’s required here?

He wont ever get that 'track record' Jim will he,if he isnt given a fair chance...and what of Bruce's early foray into Management?   in his own words at another Sheffield Club?    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7757589/Steve-Bruce-scarred-spell-charge-Sheffield-United-QUIT-management.html

He also had 4 Clubs in 3 years.....http://www.leaguemanagers.com/leadership-wellbeing/manager-interviews/steve-bruce-great-unknown/

Q:Bruce’s early career in management saw a succession of quick-fire moves, from Sheffield United to Huddersfield to Wigan to Crystal Palace, all within the space of three years. However, it was on his return to Birmingham City in 2001 that Bruce settled into the role, taking the club into the top flight for the first time in 16 years at the end of his first season in charge. In almost six years in charge at St Andrews, Bruce experienced both highs and lows, including one relegation and two promotions to the Barclays Premier League.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by parajack

[Sergeant Tibbs]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Yeah, and I stick by that. Nothing to do with Fletcher’s goals output though. If it wasn’t Monk’s tactics, the only other explanation is that the players were ignoring the managers instructions. That can happen of course, when players are lacking in confidence, they will often take the easy way out. Either way though, it’s down to Monk to change that

A managers role is to motivate as well as manage. 
There are many squads down the years who have simply downed tools. 
Without his own back room staff, Monk has been a one man band. If, as suspected he fell out with some of the bigger characters, it is unlikely the squad were going to pull in the right direction.

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

A managers role is to motivate as well as manage. 
There are many squads down the years who have simply downed tools. 
Without his own back room staff, Monk has been a one man band. If, as suspected he fell out with some of the bigger characters, it is unlikely the squad were going to pull in the right direction.

I don’t really want to make an issue about this, as I know the circumstances were less than ideal. He wasn’t actually a one man band, as he had Bullen, Thompson and Weaver assisting him They may not have been his appointments, but help was at hand. Monk was the boss though, certainly I don’t believe the more direct style was Bullen’s doing. Anyway, as I said, it’s not really worth discussing now, it’s done 

Going forward, I’d like to think that we won’t be relying on that type of approach, and we’ll discover other ways of creating goals. Monk has played decent football, at both Swansea and Leeds, so I’m optimistic. 

[parajack]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I don’t really want to make an issue about this, as I know the circumstances were less than ideal. He wasn’t actually a one man band, as he had Bullen, Thompson and Weaver assisting him They may not have been his appointments, but help was at hand. Monk was the boss though, certainly I don’t believe the more direct style was Bullen’s doing. Anyway, as I said, it’s not really worth discussing now, it’s done 

Going forward, I’d like to think that we won’t be relying on that type of approach, and we’ll discover other ways of creating goals. Monk has played decent football, at both Swansea and Leeds, so I’m optimistic. 

Bullen & Weaver now with the under 23s though,does that mean they were allegedly seen as 'part of the problem'? rather than part of the solution? Even if blameless?

 

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Lawrie Madden said:

Was he offered a contract ? 

 

And if so he had refused the contract before the re-start so he had no future at the club 

 

Chill he's not a Wednesday Fan not that that would matter, as far as i can see he behaved totally professionally and in my opinion gave 100% when he played for us so no complaints about him as player nor as person 

We will agree to disagree,......We could have been relegated as a consequence of his refusal,had the EFL acted differently,or been able to harvest enough points,for the  EFL  to deduct us this Year,but still stay in the Championship.We will never know now,what effect the 3 who refused might have had.In my view all 3 owed it to the Club,the supporters, & themselves to see the Season out.

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, parajack said:

Bullen & Weaver now with the under 23s though,does that mean they were allegedly seen as 'part of the problem'? rather than part of the solution? Even if blameless?

 

They were not Monk’s pick, and although I’m sure he was grateful for their support, he’ll be much happier now he has his trusted assistants back. Like I said, let’s see what style we adopt now he can bring in his own people, coaching staff, and players. My preference will always be his Leeds/Swansea brand, as opposed to the stuff he did at Birmingham 

[Sergeant Tibbs]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

 

I think most of us would’ve trusted Bruce to do what was necessary because of his track record. **** hasn’t got anywhere near  Bruce’s gravitas in the game and has just overseen one of the worst half season’s we’ve had this century. So understandably there is quite a bit of doubt around whether **** can do the job that’s required here?

What’s up Jim, have you got problems with your spelling, is one of your keys stuck ? Or you can’t beat to say our managers name.

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

What’s up Jim, have you got problems with your spelling, is one of your keys stuck ? Or you can’t beat to say our managers name.

 

 

[sexpistol]

17 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Isn't it? Last time we had someone score 20 in a season we finished 15th in League One. In our two recent play-off seasons our top scorers managed 15 and 12. It should also be noted that Fletcher managed that 'not good enough' total in only 27 appearances, so was on course to do significantly better anyway.

 

Games are won because your team scores more than the opponent. The league table doesn't care whether one bloke gets the majority or if they are spread around the team. You reckon West Brom fans care that they had no one who registered more than 11 in all competitions last season? Such obsession with individual statistics is a bit schoolboy for my liking. No one counts who is making the tackles or clearances at the other end - it's a combined effort.

Good point. I might be wrong on this but last season the blunts highest goal scorers got SIX yes SIX goals yet they finished in the top 10 of the premier league.

Edited August 15, 2020 by sexpistol

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, sexpistol said:

Good point. I might be wrong on this but last season the blunts highest goal scorer got FIVE yes FIVE goals yet they finished in the top 10 of the premier league.

 

Just looked it up. McBurnie and Mousset led the way with 6 each. Lundstram and Fleck got 5. That's pretty startling given the accepted wisdom about how vital it is to have someone scoring lots of goals. And the Premier League's three leading scorers played for the teams finishing 5th, 8th and 11th.

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Just looked it up. McBurnie and Mousset led the way with 6 each. Lundstram and Fleck got 5. That's pretty startling given the accepted wisdom about how vital it is to have someone scoring lots of goals. And the Premier League's three leading scorers played for the teams finishing 5th, 8th and 11th.

Is it really the accepted wisdom these days? Sure, there’s a fair few on here who seem to yearn for a 20 goal talisman, hence the clamour for players like ALF and Rhodes. Watching modern football, it’s more about what a striker can bring to the team dynamic isn’t it