Anyone calling for the managers head doesn't really get it

[doubleo]

40 minutes ago, deano said:

He does. 

Oh, you mean those that have brought us so much success over recent years. When SB eventually turned up, the 2 Steve’s had already been working for weeks. 

[deano]

1 minute ago, doubleo said:

Oh, you mean those that have brought us so much success over recent years. When SB eventually turned up, the 2 Steve’s had already been working for weeks. 

Yes I know, what's your point. 

[Andrew6666]

9 minutes ago, deano said:

 

If you believe we are the only club in the entire world who's manager has had to work with existing staff then you are a little silly. 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, deano said:

 

If you believe we are the only club in the entire world who's manager has had to work with existing staff then you are a little silly. 

 

 

You call someone 'silly' but off no evidence to back up your statement. Prove me wrong and name one, I've asked you more than once now.

 

'Arguing with a fool, only proves there are two'.

[doubleo]

2 minutes ago, deano said:

Yes I know, what's your point. 

Well in your post you seem to belittle the importance of having good coaches, in that they might help a bit. I’d say they’re as important as the manager. SB brought in his own and I’ve never heard of a manager not bringing in his own team, or at least an assistant. It’s like judging the driver of an F1 car when the team behind him Has set it up to run like a Cortina. 

[Watto]

11 hours ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

I don’t understand this quality of the squad , who have we lost since Christmas when we were 3rd ? 

Only one's not playing  from Bristol city just before Xmas are Dawson, lees and fox but the bench was much stronger with Westwood, winnall , Lee and forestieri and Murphy on the bench .

Last night we had 4 kids on the bench 

[deano]

Just now, Andrew6666 said:

 

You call someone 'silly' but off no evidence to back up your statement. Prove me wrong and name one, I've asked you more than once now.

 

'Arguing with a fool, only proves there are two'.

I don't pay much attention to other clubs assistant managers, and I'm hardly going to start research to prove a ridiculous point. 

 

You are quite right, obviously, that it's the norm for a manager to have his own team around him, thus somewhat unusual for us not to. However my opinion is that should we bring in a coaching staff to assist Monk it won't make a fundamental difference, Monk would still be the decision maker and is accountable. 

 

 

[deano]

6 minutes ago, doubleo said:

Well in your post you seem to belittle the importance of having good coaches, in that they might help a bit. I’d say they’re as important as the manager. SB brought in his own and I’ve never heard of a manager not bringing in his own team, or at least an assistant. It’s like judging the driver of an F1 car when the team behind him Has set it up to run like a Cortina. 

Sure, I wouldn't say as important but important nonetheless. 

[Andrew6666]

48 minutes ago, deano said:

I don't pay much attention to other clubs assistant managers, and I'm hardly going to start research to prove a ridiculous point. 

 

You are quite right, obviously, that it's the norm for a manager to have his own team around him, thus somewhat unusual for us not to. However my opinion is that should we bring in a coaching staff to assist Monk it won't make a fundamental difference, Monk would still be the decision maker and is accountable. 

 

 

Monks decision is final - I agree. But the manager needs trusted coaches who he believes will deliver his vision. We have Bullen, who has failed multiple times under many managers, he is retained due to sentiment. Also Bullen made it clear he wanted the job and didn't get it - would you trust an employee to help you in your place of work, who wanted your job but didn't get it - I wouldn't. Bullen should have gone the day he stated he wanted the job but didn't get it. That freed up wage should have gone to Monks chosen staff.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Andrew6666

[deano]

12 minutes ago, Andrew6666 said:

Monks decision is final - I agree. But the manager needs trusted coaches who he believes will deliver his vision. We have Bullen, who has failed multiple times under many managers, he is retained due to sentiment. Also Bullen made it clear he wanted the job and didn't get it - would you trust an employee to help you in your place of work, who wanted your job but didn't get it - I wouldn't. Bullen should have gone the day he stated he wanted the job but didn't get it. That freed up wage should have gone to Monks chosen staff.

Don't disagree with that, however you would expect Bullen and subsequently Monk to now realise Bullen isn't ever going to be a serious option for the managers position on a full time basis. Agree Bullen seems to be here out of sentiment, that's from the outside looking in. 

 

Moving forward and trying to see it from Chansiri's point of view, would he want to invest in a coaching staff for Monk at this point, having seen how poor he has performed. Its a strange situation whichever way you look at it. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by deano

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

I posted this in another thread, but it is relevant here too.

 

Do you not understand how fragile and threadbare our squad is?

Wickham, Lee and Bannan (inconsistently) are the only players with any quality in the squad. With Wickham and Lee out for valid reasons it showed how poor we are. It was the same when Fletcher was here. With him we could cobble something together, without a total shambles.

 

Last night laid it all bare for me. We have a squad of below average players who think they are better than they are. Barely L1 standard if you ask me.

 

When PNE went long ball when stockley came on he showed us all how it should be done. He was a nasty fckr with elbows all over the place, but it was effective from the moment he entered the fray. We don't have that and haven't for twenty years.

 

I have never seen Iorfa, Palmer and Borner make so many mistakes. Bannan giving the ball away cheaply, Luongo doing something, not sure what. Harris and Murphy and then Reach incapable of terrorising any defence by taking on a man. A big lump up top who tries but can never get off the ground because he has two players marking him. Pelupessy chasing shadows because no other fckr is working hard enough around him. We have a club captain under a blanket rocking himself to sleep because he's been given a responsibility that he is not capable of carrying.

 

Then DC who is from a different culture, very authoritarian, who wants to manage  from the top but gets involved in decisions at all levels below, down to the flavour of crisps we sell.

 

By all means call for the managers head but that will not change a thing. This club is rotten to the core.  I feel sorry Monk who must turn up to work every day sigh and shake his head. Are these the lightweight snowflakes I have to work with every day. 

 

Look at all the above and tell me getting rid of Monk will help with any of it. The whole kit and kaboodle needs tearing apart and starting again. I can see that Monk is trying to change the system and ethos but he does not have the right tools to work with, although there are plenty of tools around. It is not monks job to determine the strategy for the club going forward. He can input into the mix what he wants to achieve and what he needs to do it but the board ultimately decide the direction. A board of one is not going to work.

 

Then I could get started on the daft short sighted comments on here, but that's a waste of my time.

 

But I'll also add. Monk has not been able to bring in his own coaching support team. It's like starting a job with the jobsworths who have been there donkeys years, read the paper for the first 45 mins before doing any work, who then pull you up for using the wrong coloured pen from stationary and then reminisce about how it was so much better in the old days.....

[cain]

Bruce wasn’t doing too bad with this squad

[Andrew6666]

9 minutes ago, deano said:

Don't disagree with that, however you would expect Bullen and subsequently Monk to now realise Bullen isn't ever going to be a serious option for the managers position on a full time basis. Agree Bullen seems to be here out of sentiment, that's from the outside looking in. 

 

Moving forward and trying to see it from Chansiri's point of view, would he want to invest in a coaching staff for Monk at this point, having seen how poor he has performed. Its a strange situation whichever way you look at it. 

The problem with DC is that he blurted ALL our cash on one manager - Carlos. Who in term just bought anyone, regardless of whether we needed them or not, he just spent!!! We have since had 3 managers from Carlos leaving, Bruce (left at the first sign of interest - read into that what you will), Luhaky, and Monk. All 3 managers were expected to use the majority of an aging squad that wasn't good enough first time around to get promoted, none have been given the chance to substantially replace any of the squad with any substance or quality. Bruce was actually allowed to bring his own staff, Monk seems to have had the worst possible dealings with DC as he cant even bring his chosen coaches in never mind players - he has to use Bullen who is a proven failure at this level (also does he see things the same as Monk??? Is Bullen too close to the playing staff???).

 

Everyone can see results haven't gone our way, but what would changing the manager again do, when reading the above? The cycle is getting clearly worse as DC puts more restrictions on each new manager, what restrictions would the new manager have to work under? It seems DC is expecting miracles from a manager using footballers that failed to get promoted 3 years ago, will a new manager suddenly have them playing better - never going to happen!!!

 

Personally, I would retain Monk for next season, let him change the squad (do the dirty work getting rid of deadwood, probably not going to be able to spend) and see from a level playing field how he does. Currently our club is failing at every level, changing the manager constantly isn't working - its like putting a band aid on a broken leg.

[deano]

It's fair to say Chansiri has been found wanting, probably an understatement and if you could swap owners like managers then that would have happened by now, that much is obvious. 

 

We will have to agree to disagree re changing the manager but you make a fair argument for him to stay. 

 

I think changing the manager is the only realistic option, actually it's not but it's the best option imo. A good manager generally has the ability to get a team organised and stamp his style onto the team, I can't see that with Monk, don't think it will happen regardless despite the accepted mitigation. 

[deano]

34 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

I posted this in another thread, but it is relevant here too.

 

Do you not understand how fragile and threadbare our squad is?

Wickham, Lee and Bannan (inconsistently) are the only players with any quality in the squad. With Wickham and Lee out for valid reasons it showed how poor we are. It was the same when Fletcher was here. With him we could cobble something together, without a total shambles.

 

Last night laid it all bare for me. We have a squad of below average players who think they are better than they are. Barely L1 standard if you ask me.

 

When PNE went long ball when stockley came on he showed us all how it should be done. He was a nasty fckr with elbows all over the place, but it was effective from the moment he entered the fray. We don't have that and haven't for twenty years.

 

I have never seen Iorfa, Palmer and Borner make so many mistakes. Bannan giving the ball away cheaply, Luongo doing something, not sure what. Harris and Murphy and then Reach incapable of terrorising any defence by taking on a man. A big lump up top who tries but can never get off the ground because he has two players marking him. Pelupessy chasing shadows because no other fckr is working hard enough around him. We have a club captain under a blanket rocking himself to sleep because he's been given a responsibility that he is not capable of carrying.

 

Then DC who is from a different culture, very authoritarian, who wants to manage  from the top but gets involved in decisions at all levels below, down to the flavour of crisps we sell.

 

By all means call for the managers head but that will not change a thing. This club is rotten to the core.  I feel sorry Monk who must turn up to work every day sigh and shake his head. Are these the lightweight snowflakes I have to work with every day. 

 

Look at all the above and tell me getting rid of Monk will help with any of it. The whole kit and kaboodle needs tearing apart and starting again. I can see that Monk is trying to change the system and ethos but he does not have the right tools to work with, although there are plenty of tools around. It is not monks job to determine the strategy for the club going forward. He can input into the mix what he wants to achieve and what he needs to do it but the board ultimately decide the direction. A board of one is not going to work.

 

Then I could get started on the daft short sighted comments on here, but that's a waste of my time.

 

But I'll also add. Monk has not been able to bring in his own coaching support team. It's like starting a job with the jobsworths who have been there donkeys years, read the paper for the first 45 mins before doing any work, who then pull you up for using the wrong coloured pen from stationary and then reminisce about how it was so much better in the old days.....

Monk had us in 3rd with this squad before it all went wrong. He went as far as saying we had possibly the best midfield in the division. 

 

Everyone has an opinion on this sort of thing, for me, he's not upto it but it's only natural to disagree at times. Never going to be a right or wrong answer. 

[Lincs Owl]

13 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

I find this 'we were third' stuff extremely naive

Would you find it similarly naive if someone mentions we've dropped to 22nd in a couple of weeks?

[akbuk]

13 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Think one of the reasons Bruce moved on is that he could see the writing on the wall.

Yes he saw the writing on the wall all in £££ signs

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Lincs Owl said:

Would you find it similarly naive if someone mentions we've dropped to 22nd in a couple of weeks?

Hello mate

Yes.

Yes I would.

[akbuk]

13 hours ago, Furious George said:

Well, if you count a play off final loss, followed by a play off semi final loss as a success, then one of us needs to work out the definition of failure.

Relegation that counts as a failure

[Lincs Owl]

I think we'll have to wait for Lee Bullen to retire and write a book to find out what's happened behind the scenes at our club.  Would be interesting to read. 

[OwlBiSeeinThi]

6 minutes ago, deano said:

Monk had us in 3rd with this squad before it all went wrong. He went as far as saying we had possibly the best midfield in the division. 

 

Everyone has an opinion on this sort of thing, for me, he's not upto it but it's only natural to disagree at times. Never going to be a right or wrong answer. 

Fair points but what do you think went wrong?

 

Personally, I think it's a fallacy to even consider our midfield as best in the league. Maybe "should" be best in league, but have never achieved anything like. He parroted what he'd been told. 

Best in league don't get dominated as we have for longer than this season.