SWFC Trust – fans' survey

[the monk]

When DC first bought the club and started buying good players and doing things with the pitch that no one had ever done before I and many thousands of others thought our dreams for the last 20 years had come true and were genuinely excited 

 

He then announced his prices and killed it stone dead for many, either through affordability or principle.

 

No doubt folk will tell me by how many % attendances increased and it's been proved in the past cheap(er) tickets dont sell totally ignoring the fact that football has boomed over the last 10 /15years 

 

Can someone explain to me how clubs such as sufc, Norwich, Forest, Derby etc all outsell Wednesday and why am I seeing more Uni turd shirts in S6 than Wednesday ?

 

[1867"The Wednesday"]

On 27/05/2020 at 12:29, SWFC Trust said:

 

Hello everyone.

 

As some of you may already know, we’re in the process of setting up a new Sheffield Wednesday Supporters’ Trust and we are now formally recognised by the Football Supporters’ Association – something that the club had been lacking (until now we were one of the few Championship clubs without one). 

 

This will give fans a stronger voice and our aim is to establish better connections with Sheffield Wednesday, providing effective, positive dialogue between club and fans for the benefit of everyone associated with the Owls. You can find out more information, including a detailed FAQ section and notes from previous meetings, at swfctrust.co.uk.

 

The formal process began back in March and since then the interim board have been working on the administration needed to become a registered Trust. We’ve made great progress and are now in a position to move to our next stage – gathering as wide a range of opinions as possible to help inform our policies, as we build up to a full launch when we will begin accepting memberships.

 

With this in mind, today we’ve launched the first in a series of surveys looking at different aspects of the club. We want to reach as many fans as possible, so the administrators of this site have kindly allowed us to post a link to the survey.

 

This is a huge chance for you to have your say on the state of Sheffield Wednesday. We welcome all views and your responses to this series of surveys really will influence the direction the Trust takes and any dialogue we have with the club.

 

First up, we’d like your views on club governance and ticket prices.

 

Click here to take the survey

 

Thanks for your time.

A few people set up a football trust and now think they represent all the fans and have a direct link to the club. Well i don't think that being accepted by a Association means you can now talk to DC direct and listening to your earlier streams what you did at smaller clubs made me laugh. We are MASSIVE and this trust is more political and you will be supporting a small percent of OWLS fans

[Harrysgame]

1 hour ago, LittleG said:

Having high prices has really worked hasn't it; just look at the quality and the way we are challenging at the top.

Are they high though? ST remains good value. Pay on the gate dear but try getting a walk up ticket for a train.

Lowering prices would help our finances how?

As has been stated previously, when we are doing well, people find the money...Just coincidence or do people choose to prioritise the match.

Unfortunately there will always be some who cannot afford football or whatever due to circumstances. If I recall correctly didn't the club  offer to assist in some way ie unemployed and hardship etc.

Did as a question previously but no one seems to know, why did we get mainly dire attendances in the 70s when it was cheap except the odd game.

If we do well they will turn up, simple really.

 

[Harrysgame]

1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

How does the club make a profit, challenge for promotion, and buy quality players by charging lower prices?  

Think some on here believe in magic beans.

Cheap prices in the 70s and still no one came....

[Harrysgame]

13 minutes ago, 1867"The Wednesday" said:

A few people set up a football trust and now think they represent all the fans and have a direct link to the club. Well i don't think that being accepted by a Association means you can now talk to DC direct and listening to your earlier streams what you did at smaller clubs made me laugh. We are MASSIVE and this trust is more political and you will be supporting a small percent of OWLS fans

Fair point, is there any limit to the number of groups you can set up.

Who asked for this group anyway, does smack of some kind of self promotion and wanabees.

[Dick_Turpin]

On 28/05/2020 at 08:45, Harrysgame said:

If you say we had 20k fans you need 2144 to complete the survey to have a representative sample. All about maths and allows for a 5% margin of error. It can get more complicated as need to factor in age, gender etc. In relation to finance questions should be broken down to the relevant earnings bracket.

 

It all depends. They only sample a couple of thousand for a national opinion poll when there are 46 million people eligible to vote. But this is a self selecting poll which makes assessing its accuracy impossible I guess unless the sample size is huge. It's like those Twitter polls that put Corbyn's support at 95%  

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Fan conditioning is still prevalent...

[Dick_Turpin]

16 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

Are they high though? ST remains good value. Pay on the gate dear but try getting a walk up ticket for a train.

Lowering prices would help our finances how?

As has been stated previously, when we are doing well, people find the money...Just coincidence or do people choose to prioritise the match.

Unfortunately there will always be some who cannot afford football or whatever due to circumstances. If I recall correctly didn't the club  offer to assist in some way ie unemployed and hardship etc.

Did as a question previously but no one seems to know, why did we get mainly dire attendances in the 70s when it was cheap except the odd game.

If we do well they will turn up, simple really.

 

Compare our prices on STs and POTG to other teams in the division. You may regard them as good value. That means other clubs are providing incredibly good value. It's balancing ct - we have a huge amount of spare seats. So we have flexibility to try to lower prices to encourage more people to turn up. Less money per fan but similar or greater income. There's also an issue of building a future fan base. Charging high prices when we are rubbish doesn't help nurture a new generation. 

 

Football was in a slump in the 70s and 80s - because of hooliganism and a general malaise.  In 1988 only 2 clubs in the First Division averaged over 30,000 and only 7 averaged over 20,000. We averaged under 20k and we were far from alone. 

[Harrysgame]

19 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

It all depends. They only sample a couple of thousand for a national opinion poll when there are 46 million people eligible to vote. But this is a self selecting poll which makes assessing its accuracy impossible I guess unless the sample size is huge. It's like those Twitter polls that put Corbyn's support at 95%  

Never believe a poll, especially about football.

[Guest LittleG]

50 minutes ago, Harrysgame said:

Are they high though? ST remains good value. Pay on the gate dear but try getting a walk up ticket for a train.

Lowering prices would help our finances how?

As has been stated previously, when we are doing well, people find the money...Just coincidence or do people choose to prioritise the match.

Unfortunately there will always be some who cannot afford football or whatever due to circumstances. If I recall correctly didn't the club  offer to assist in some way ie unemployed and hardship etc.

Did as a question previously but no one seems to know, why did we get mainly dire attendances in the 70s when it was cheap except the odd game.

If we do well they will turn up, simple really.

nky

POTG prices are high, not sure it's a fair comparison with train tickets. I don't think it's as simple as saying that if we are doing well fans will turn up. It will be hard to entice the fans back that no longer go because of the cost; their is a limit to what people will pay (apart from one off matches). Attendances throughout football have increased since the 90's so cannot keep asking the question about the 70's. Football has moved on, stadiums and facilities have improved, very little trouble with fans inside grounds, the whole marketing of football. I cannot see any justification as to why our prices are so high, so we'll just have to beg to differ.

[Bearwood Owl1]

We'd do well to look at Birmingham City's model. Their attendances have risen considerably over the last 2/3 years despite having an average team at best. 

 

The ST in the best seats are at a similar (premium) price to ours. I'm sure there are fans who'd keep paying top dollar for the best seats. There are a range of other prices though - right down to just over £200 for seats in the corner with a poor view. They do free u-11 st if bought with an adult and deals on fami!y STs otherwise. Discounts for OAPs, disabled and a 19-24 year old range.

 

POTG are reasonably priced with occasional 'flash sales' in the week before the game and some games (on a Saturday, in the Championship) at £10/15.

 

I don't know whether all this has brought more money into the club than what we get, but it certainly boosted atendances. All with some loony ownership and EFL issues to contend with.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Bearwood Owl1
Typo

[Nero]

10 hours ago, OohAahGuyWhittingham said:

 

Yes, when we are winning more fans come out of the woodwork, and that's great. But don't try and tell me that results have any bearing on, for example the fan on state pension who can't afford a ticket any more. You've got you're head buried in the sand if you don't realise that there are huge proportions of the population living in a financial knife edge, and the decision of whether to go to a match or not is out of their hands. Every time we up the prices, more fans find themselves on the wrong side of just being able to afford to come.

 

Football is more than just brand loyalty, we have made a decision in our youth to follow Wednesday for our whole life and the majority of us carry on doing so through the very worst of times. We support the club in many more ways than just cheering the team on, and this should be recognised and rewarded, not exploited.

 

The Chansiri Stockholm Syndrome on here is weird. Why quite so many people argue in favour of high ticket prices is genuinely beyond me. Sadly I think far too many fans who can afford it just don't care about the others

1. I wouldn't argue that there are some fans who are actually priced out of attending and that is concerning and sad. Just that its not as many as people make out. It would be great if football addressed the ridiculous business model where players earn more than the whole of the gate receipts. That is a football problem not a Wednesday problem. We are just trying to compete in an unfair financial mess corrupted by huge amounts of premiership TV money which distorts the EFL and increases the wage bills for all teams.

2. How do you suppose that this can happen beyond what is happening now with games with less demand being cheaper? Do you want a match day price which reflects how much people earn?

3. What I think is that Chansiri has three choices, the Mandaric route of minimal investment, lower prices, lower chance of success, the foreign premiership gambler route of maxing income in any way possible and spending 13m of your own cash to get to EPL, or the Glazer route of leveraging the club for debt payments and making money out of it by taking dividends. None tick all the boxes but I can understand why Chansiri went for the second choice and is now rowing back a bit. And yes I can afford to go and to be honest, I feel sorry for fans who are genuinely priced out, but not several of my mates who moan about how they cant afford it but rock up when we are doing great. 

[Dick_Turpin]

13 minutes ago, Nero said:

1. I wouldn't argue that there are some fans who are actually priced out of attending and that is concerning and sad. Just that its not as many as people make out. It would be great if football addressed the ridiculous business model where players earn more than the whole of the gate receipts. That is a football problem not a Wednesday problem. We are just trying to compete in an unfair financial mess corrupted by huge amounts of premiership TV money which distorts the EFL and increases the wage bills for all teams.

2. How do you suppose that this can happen beyond what is happening now with games with less demand being cheaper? Do you want a match day price which reflects how much people earn?

3. What I think is that Chansiri has three choices, the Mandaric route of minimal investment, lower prices, lower chance of success, the foreign premiership gambler route of maxing income in any way possible and spending 13m of your own cash to get to EPL, or the Glazer route of leveraging the club for debt payments and making money out of it by taking dividends. None tick all the boxes but I can understand why Chansiri went for the second choice and is now rowing back a bit. And yes I can afford to go and to be honest, I feel sorry for fans who are genuinely priced out, but not several of my mates who moan about how they cant afford it but rock up when we are doing great. 

It's not simply a matter of being able to afford it. It's a matter of value and perception of the club. I can afford to spend a fiver on a bag of crisps but I'm not going to. I want Hillsborough full because it's much better atmosphere. It's selfish - I enjoy the games more and I also quite like the club to have a positive image in the community and football as whole. We are seen as rob dogs and I happen to think that's a shame.  Football has always been more than a game and more than just a business. If Chansiri reduces it to that then fizz him. 

 

Chansiri set his stall out for the Bristol City game. His aim is to twist our arms to buy season tickets and literally price away fans out of coming. I  think that's pretty poor and I will cut him zero slack. Each to their own.   

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Nero said:

1. I wouldn't argue that there are some fans who are actually priced out of attending and that is concerning and sad. Just that its not as many as people make out. It would be great if football addressed the ridiculous business model where players earn more than the whole of the gate receipts. That is a football problem not a Wednesday problem. We are just trying to compete in an unfair financial mess corrupted by huge amounts of premiership TV money which distorts the EFL and increases the wage bills for all teams.

2. How do you suppose that this can happen beyond what is happening now with games with less demand being cheaper? Do you want a match day price which reflects how much people earn?

3. What I think is that Chansiri has three choices, the Mandaric route of minimal investment, lower prices, lower chance of success, the foreign premiership gambler route of maxing income in any way possible and spending 13m of your own cash to get to EPL, or the Glazer route of leveraging the club for debt payments and making money out of it by taking dividends. None tick all the boxes but I can understand why Chansiri went for the second choice and is now rowing back a bit. And yes I can afford to go and to be honest, I feel sorry for fans who are genuinely priced out, but not several of my mates who moan about how they cant afford it but rock up when we are doing great. 

 

I totally understood the option number 2 of going for it when he took over. It worked for some who have not looked back since and was very close to working for us. 

What I don't understand is the fallback strategy if that didn't work. He had a clear plan of promotion in 2 seasons. We signed players to long contracts, I thought this would be on the basis that if we didn't get up in two years then they would still have sell-on value and we could refresh and start to build again. We never sold and have paid the price since.

 

Also, in February 2018 the club surveyed the fanbase and came to a conclusion that they published that over 70% of the supporters wanted us to stick with the current price bracket while maintaining the level of spending on the team in a bid for promotion.

As of April 2018 we were in a transfer embargo which lasted until Mid-August - the club must have been somewhat aware that this was a possibility when they announced in February 2018 that prices would stay high in order to keep funding a push for promotion under the same structure as the previous 2 seasons. Clearly this wasn't sustainable and the funding of the team has not been at the same level as it was for those 2 seasons but the prices have remained high. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Harrysgame said:

Spot on, We want good players it costs. As you say cheap tickets don't increase the attendance significantly. In the football world clubs are much more dependant on tv sponsorship etc.

Just don't get this hang up on lowering prices. We cannot afford to if we ever get promoted their may be an option, however if we are in the PL all of a sudden you can bet stay away fans will suddenly find the money ! Ok some may not be able to afford it, but is it down to the club to subsidise?  Plenty of things we would all like to do but some we can't.

Football is a business pure and simple.

 

 

We pay more than most at this level. The standard of players we have been able to attract has undoubtedly gone up under Chansiri and improvements have been made to the ground and not least the pitch which has made a significant difference. 

 

I have considered the increased season ticket prices to be decent value compared to what we charged in previous years but the big increases in POTG are too high, even when taking into account the success he has had in increasing season ticket numbers. The problem is that as results decline, the number of season tickets sold each season do the same and then the high POTG prices is prohibitive in terms of attracting these fans back.

 

Also, the comparative high price we pay at this level is not being reflected on the field, this is as a result of poor recruitment and paying players who will have gone past the peak of their careers high wages on long contracts that we are stuck with and have an ever decreasing sell on value. The contractual decisions aren't made by the manager and have to be factored into budgets so the responsibility rests with the owner of the people he has trusted to manage this.  

 

[Guest Grandad]

5 hours ago, 1867"The Wednesday" said:

A few people set up a football trust and now think they represent all the fans and have a direct link to the club. Well i don't think that being accepted by a Association means you can now talk to DC direct and listening to your earlier streams what you did at smaller clubs made me laugh. We are MASSIVE and this trust is more political and you will be supporting a small percent of OWLS fans

 

Thats a cracking first post

 

Welcome to Owlstalk Dejphon

[Harrysgame]

8 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

How does the club make a profit, challenge for promotion, and buy quality players by charging lower prices?  

It's a great question, think some on here would prefer 20 quid tickets and no investment in players. Some clubs are cheaper some are more expensive bit like anything.

[@owlstalk]

 

Does anyone think they're getting the value for money they were promised this season at the prices they're paying?

[Harrysgame]

6 hours ago, rickygoo said:

Compare our prices on STs and POTG to other teams in the division. You may regard them as good value. That means other clubs are providing incredibly good value. It's balancing ct - we have a huge amount of spare seats. So we have flexibility to try to lower prices to encourage more people to turn up. Less money per fan but similar or greater income. There's also an issue of building a future fan base. Charging high prices when we are rubbish doesn't help nurture a new generation. 

 

Football was in a slump in the 70s and 80s - because of hooliganism and a general malaise.  In 1988 only 2 clubs in the First Division averaged over 30,000 and only 7 averaged over 20,000. We averaged under 20k and we were far from alone. 

Good points, but I do still think that our attendances go up when we are doing well or a big game and this is the deciding factor over prices.

To lower prices for the fans who pick and choose just does not make any real financial sense.

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Does anyone think they're getting the value for money they were promised this season at the prices they're paying?

 

Who would be daft enough to think that?  Cheap point. You are so much better than that.