U23 First team action minutes

[Etchesketch]

16 hours ago, Burnsie said:

A year ago we had this young striker kid who shot have been the first name of the team sheet according to lots on here.

 

Last seen ripping it up somewhere in Belgium

That was 2 and half\3 years ago. He then had the season where he didn't play and then a season in Belgium.

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

On 10/10/2019 at 15:47, GibKev said:

I saw this report on Twitter so not sure how accurate it really is (although it did have a blue tick).

 

And its the number of minutes players 23 and under have played this season in the league.

 

Doesnt make good reading if you are into this type of stat.

 

 

Don’t give a poo ! Talent not age is important. Our youngsters aren’t good enough so they don’t play. Very simple really!

[malek]

1 hour ago, Kagoshimaowl said:

Don’t give a poo ! Talent not age is important. Our youngsters aren’t good enough so they don’t play. Very simple really!

 

Our youngsters are not good enough because we don't invest in them and develop them.

 

6 years of investment into our academy and development sides, getting CAT 2 status, infrastructure, coaches, physios, sport science, etc... amounts in 0 minutes of first team football.

[PEARSON]

21 hours ago, Minton said:

 

Not an issue with the Chansiri era, it's the hangover from the decades of under-investment that was first brought up when Milan came in. We had 1 scout in total, zero working locally and could barely put out an u23 squad. The investment that has been put in recently has resulted in our u18s becoming national champions last season, but many of those players are 16 and 17, nowhere near developed or ready for first team football. We won't see the fruits of DC's investments for another couple of seasons I would imagine, but there is potential for those numbers to change quite drastically in 21/22 and beyond.

I agree with you but having players under the age of 23 isn’t just about what comes through your academy. It’s about who you buy. I’d also say we had some decent prospects that have come through the academy recently that we’ve made a complete hash of. Controversial topic but I think the whole George Hirst saga will massively come back to bite us and we obviously didn’t deal with that well, no matter how much people want to place all the blame on him. Sean Clare was another talented player we didn’t tie down and we’re lucky that Jos got the job at St Pauli, otherwise I suspect Penney would be another player let down by our inability to bring through young players. Things do seem to be changing, good to see Kirby on loan but you only need to look at our neighbourghs to see there’s a massive heap of talent in Sheffield and the surrounding areas that we’re not tapping into or developing properly.

[Minton]

17 minutes ago, PEARSON said:

I agree with you but having players under the age of 23 isn’t just about what comes through your academy. It’s about who you buy. I’d also say we had some decent prospects that have come through the academy recently that we’ve made a complete hash of. Controversial topic but I think the whole George Hirst saga will massively come back to bite us and we obviously didn’t deal with that well, no matter how much people want to place all the blame on him. Sean Clare was another talented player we didn’t tie down and we’re lucky that Jos got the job at St Pauli, otherwise I suspect Penney would be another player let down by our inability to bring through young players. Things do seem to be changing, good to see Kirby on loan but you only need to look at our neighbourghs to see there’s a massive heap of talent in Sheffield and the surrounding areas that we’re not tapping into or developing properly.

 

I get your point, but for the last 20 years any local young player with talent wanting to make it as a pro footballer went to the blunts as they had a far superior academy and scouting network (I've just been sick in my own mouth saying that). 

 

Things are changing, but it takes more than 4-5 years to remedy such an imbalance. We currently have more u23 players out on loan than the scrubbers do and our u18s winning the national title last season will have a big and positive impact on our recruitment over the next few years. But we won't see the fruits of those labours for another 4 or 5 years. 

[McRightSide]

6 hours ago, malek said:

 

Our youngsters are not good enough because we don't invest in them and develop them.

 

6 years of investment into our academy and development sides, getting CAT 2 status, infrastructure, coaches, physios, sport science, etc... amounts in 0 minutes of first team football.

 

You say they don’t play because we don’t invest.

 

Then you list out all the investments we have made over 6 years.

 

Kind of knackered your own argument there.

[malek]

3 hours ago, McRightSide said:

 

You say they don’t play because we don’t invest.

 

Then you list out all the investments we have made over 6 years.

 

Kind of knackered your own argument there.

 

I'm not sure if you really missed out on point I tried to make, or are you teasing me ?! Anyway...

 

I didn't say they don't play because we didn't invest into academy and because they received poor coaching or used poor facilities....

 

Investment I talked about is one regarding introducing young players to first team football in order to develop them and create long term value to the club. And looking at opening post there is no club in England worst at doing it then us.

 

[McRightSide]

35 minutes ago, malek said:

 

I'm not sure if you really missed out on point I tried to make, or are you teasing me ?! Anyway...

 

I didn't say they don't play because we didn't invest into academy and because they received poor coaching or used poor facilities....

 

Investment I talked about is one regarding introducing young players to first team football in order to develop them and create long term value to the club. And looking at opening post there is no club in England worst at doing it then us.

 

 

You said ‘our youngsters are not good enough because we don’t invest in them and develop them’

 

Apparently this is entirely independent of any academy investments the club makes.

 

Ever wondered if you might be ever so slightly biased in your opinions on youth football at SWFC?

 

Btw they got loads on minutes in the last couple of seasons. How did that work out? They’re not good enough...deal with it

Edited October 12, 2019 by McRightSide

[FreshOwl]

9 hours ago, malek said:

 

I'm not sure if you really missed out on point I tried to make, or are you teasing me ?! Anyway...

 

I didn't say they don't play because we didn't invest into academy and because they received poor coaching or used poor facilities....

 

Investment I talked about is one regarding introducing young players to first team football in order to develop them and create long term value to the club. And looking at opening post there is no club in England worst at doing it then us.

 

It’s a simple game, we’re not training them up to be brain surgeons.

 

They’ve received good coaching on good facilities and if they’re still not up to scratch then they need to look at themselves.

[SallyCinnamon]

At the end of the day, if a young player is good enough they’ll be in the first team squad. 
 

We are a fairly big club with big expectations year on year under the current regime. It really is not the best environment for young players to come in and develop - as showed last year. Penney started off like a house on fire, then a few dodgy results and he looked like a boy again. 
 

It would be great for us to develop young talent and see them flourish in the first team squad, but recent history shows that this club is not the destination for players to do that. The best opportunity they have is to go out on loan and push for a start when they return. Which to be fair is what a few are doing now. 

[SallyCinnamon]

3 hours ago, Slogboy said:

Those on loan now are there because others believe in them and see their potential,  not chansiri or SWFC.

SWFC will have their just rewards if they don't return, haha.

They never learn

So which youngsters have we let go in the past who have made us look foolish? Vardy is the obvious exception. 
 

We let Clare and Hirst go, possibly our two brightest young players but 2 years on neither have pulled up any trees. Plus I can’t see either of them playing at a level superior to ours. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by SallyCinnamon

[Guest LondonOwl313]

On 12/10/2019 at 06:44, Etchesketch said:

That was 2 and half\3 years ago. He then had the season where he didn't play and then a season in Belgium.

Yeah so was 2016-17 when he was last banging the goals in at junior level. There was no chance he’d have got a game here then because we were 4th in the league, and had Fletcher, Hooper, Joao, FF, Rhodes, Winnall and Nuhui to choose from. Can’t be throwing in someone untested when every game was vital for getting in the play offs.

 

He was then impatient because he couldn’t see a way to break through, threw his toys out of the pram and the club stopped him playing. The irony is he’d have got some game time in 2017-18 if it wasn’t for that with all the injuries we had and us not playing for anything for most of the season. 

 

Missing a whole year then going to play at a poor level and being unable to shine there means he’s probably missed his chance. It’s a small window to break through really, it’s rare for players to drop down the pyramid and comeback. If he’d continued to progress here in 2017 it could have been a different story. But he’s f*cked his career up and only has himself to blame.

[SiJ]

Those who call for youngsters to be throw in are the same ones complaining when results start going South.

 

Wednesday aren't the only club who don't bring through young players at the rate they should. At the end of the day, Championship managers are under extreme pressure and as a result very few are willing to take a punt on an untested youngster, unless said youngster is an exceptional talent. 

 

If they cant get into the first team, then the next best thing is for them to go out on loan and get experience. Thankfully, we've started to do that.

 

As for Makek:

 

Well, he probably still thinks Luke Boden could make it. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by SiJ

[sMacLean]

Wonder where we are in terms of oldest squad in the leagues, last season we must have been near the top.

[SallyCinnamon]

41 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Those who call for youngsters to be throw in are the same ones complaining when results start going South.

 

Wednesday aren't the only club who don't bring through young players at the rate they should. At the end of the day, Championship managers are under extreme pressure and as a result very few are willing to take a punt on an untested youngster, unless said youngster is an exceptional talent. 

 

If they cant get into the first team, then the next best thing is for them to go out on loan and get experience. Thankfully, we've started to do that.

 

As for Makek:

 

Well, he probably still thinks Luke Boden could make it. 

Agreed. If a young player is good enough he will play. Like Brooks at United or Phillips at Leeds or Aarons at Norwich. None of our academy prospects in recent years have been in that bracket. Last season the likes of Baker, Kirby, Dawson and Penney struggled last season. Clare did well in a couple of games but by all accounts isn’t having the best season at Hearts. Hirst struggled at a Belgian second division club and is now in Leicester’s 23s. 
 

The only one I feel sorry for is Thorniley as I think he’s good enough and would get into a number of Championship sides. But he isn’t as good as Borner or Lees and at the moment Iorfa is playing well. He was on the bench against Wigan, so I presume he’s ahead of Bates in the pecking order as it stands. 

[malek]

32 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Those who call for youngsters to be throw in are the same ones complaining when results start going South.

 

Wednesday aren't the only club who don't bring through young players at the rate they should. At the end of the day, Championship managers are under extreme pressure and as a result very few are willing to take a punt on an untested youngster, unless said youngster is an exceptional talent. 

 

If they cant get into the first team, then the next best thing is for them to go out on loan and get experience. Thankfully, we've started to do that.

 

As for Makek:

 

Well, he probably still thinks Luke Boden could make it. 

 

There is a huge difference in "throwing" youngsters in and giving them some playing time when appropriate in order to develop them.

 

Spending so much many to educate academy youngsters just to put them aside and "forget" about them once they turn 18. What is the point in investing so much money in academy if there is no defined way to first team football ? We could as well do what Huddersfield did and save ourselves good money that could be used to bring in players from elsewhere.

 

We already lost Clare and Hirst (no matter how their careers turn out, we wanted to keep them but couldn't), and I wouldn't be surprised if in the summer we lose Dawson and Penney as well.

 

I wont talk again about Boden, as I explained it 10 times at least, nor will I post again in this topic.

 

[Costello 77]

13 minutes ago, malek said:

 

There is a huge difference in "throwing" youngsters in and giving them some playing time when appropriate in order to develop them.

 

Spending so much many to educate academy youngsters just to put them aside and "forget" about them once they turn 18. What is the point in investing so much money in academy if there is no defined way to first team football ? We could as well do what Huddersfield did and save ourselves good money that could be used to bring in players from elsewhere.

 

We already lost Clare and Hirst (no matter how their careers turn out, we wanted to keep them but couldn't), and I wouldn't be surprised if in the summer we lose Dawson and Penney as well.

 

I wont talk again about Boden, as I explained it 10 times at least, nor will I post again in this topic.

 

Don't stop posting.. I.. for one find your view interesting..

Academies are set up like a casino.. not the nuturing environment that you seem to think they are..they offer a chance to shine and that's about it..if you enter the sausage grinder you've got to shine..

 

They do welfare work but their main function is to produce pro footballers..

[Inspector Lestrade]

 

[PEARSON]

4 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

So which youngsters have we let go in the past who have made us look foolish? Vardy is the obvious exception. 
 

We let Clare and Hirst go, possibly our two brightest young players but 2 years on neither have pulled up any trees. Plus I can’t see either of them playing at a level superior to ours. 

The things is though Clare and Hirst obviously had a lot of talent and we didn’t develop or nurture that talent well enough at all. You can’t just say that because they haven’t done anything since that justifies the decision to not tie them down on new deals. We’ll never know, obviously, but had either of those players come through at a club better at bringing through young players I think there careers would be looking a lot better now. Had Walker and Maguire come through at Wednesday they probably wouldn’t have become the players they have. We’ll see what happens with Penney, who obviously shows a good amount of talent, but as I said earlier in the thread I think we just got lucky that Jos got the job at St Pauli and rates him. Otherwise he’d probably be in the U23s again this year. I think it’s not just the caliber of young players we have but that we have no idea what to do when a young player shows potential.

[SiJ]

If we were so bad at developing Hirst, then why have Leicestee just signed him?