2 in midfield

[Lord Snooty]

IT Was all so much simpler when everyone played 4-4-2 wasn't it.

[Lord Snooty]

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

IT Was all so much simpler when everyone played 4-4-2 wasn't it.

In my youth we had full backs, half backs forwards and inside forwards

[oldishowl]

1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

IT Was all so much simpler when everyone played 4-4-2 wasn't it.

 

Yep 

There must be a reason about 80 clubs don’t play it.

[keepitsteel89]

7 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Hutchinson's tendency to drop deep was there for all to see against QPR last week. His average position (23) was practically the same as Iorfa's (27), which is far from ideal.

 

 

Compare how deep our midfield are to QPR's, and the issue becomes even more stark:

 

 

Six of their players' average positions were in our half, compared to our three.

I think Hutch is a very clever player and that adv. position is a result of his worry regarding Iorfa at CB. We need Hutch in the center along with Lee in a 442

[Hack-Abusi]

Depends how you are going to set up .. you can play 2 in the middle if your wingers and strikers will be making nuisances of themselves in the final third ..

 

You can play with a CDM if you have a player, especially of Bannans quality pulling strings around the centre circle and forward

 

What we see from them though is that they drop so far deep to either collect the ball or to defend that we then end up over run in the middle of the park ..

 

Hutch and Luongo would work I reckon with Luongo driving up and down and Hutch offering protection in front of the back 4.

 

The wingers need more involvement too coming and collecting the ball and driving forward with it ..

 

and as someone else alluded to .. hold up play up front needs to happen. can't have the ball coming back to us everytime its lumped up top

Edited September 9, 2019 by Hack-Abusi

[Lord Snooty]

7 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

Yep 

There must be a reason about 80 clubs don’t play it.

 

Maybe different abroad. But over here.. it was no us as a containment  as the disparity in quality started to really come to the fore and the gulf got wider.

Must be ten years back now I remember Ferguson raging about someone shutting up shop at Old Trafford. 

Might have been Allardyce. ...not sure. But whoever it was quipped back "He wanted me to come here and play and open 4-4-2 and get battered because his players are better?!."

 

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Maybe different abroad. But over here.. it was no us as a containment  as the disparity in quality started to really come to the fore and the gulf got wider.

Must be ten years back now I remember Ferguson raging about someone shutting up shop at Old Trafford. 

Might have been Allardyce. ...not sure. But whoever it was quipped back "He wanted me to come here and play and open 4-4-2 and get battered because his players are better?!."

 

He was quite a card, this was the same Fergie who played with 6 centre backs once against Arsenal

[northeastowl]

8 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

You think the problem in a two is Bannan? Have you seen the position Hutch takes up, between the two CBs? He is often the last man!

 

Do you think Luongo or Lee could succeed as 1 in CM?

 

Yeah I do think the problem is Bannan mainly. In a two man midfield you need one to sit and the other to push forward when we have the ball. Of the two of them you’d expect Hutch to be the one to sit as a DM so whoever plays with him needs to go forward. Unfortunately it’s not in Bannans game to join in with attacks, how often do you see him picking up a loose ball on the edge of the box and having a shot? 

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, northeastowl said:

 

Yeah I do think the problem is Bannan mainly. In a two man midfield you need one to sit and the other to push forward when we have the ball. Of the two of them you’d expect Hutch to be the one to sit as a DM so whoever plays with him needs to go forward. Unfortunately it’s not in Bannans game to join in with attacks, how often do you see him picking up a loose ball on the edge of the box and having a shot? 

I think in a two, it’s more a case of both having to push forward when we have the ball, and both having to drop back when we don’t  In a two, with one sitting, and the other breaking forward, the play will be strung out. Both need to work together, as a pair

[SiJ]

I think we need to play a three. 

 

Gives us more control in the park IF the players are willing to play the system properly. 

 

Issue in the last few games are Hutchinson and Bannan dropping far too deep, meaning we have little to no influence in the middle and final third, hence negating the supposed advantage of having an extra man in the middle. 

 

 

[prowl]

8 minutes ago, northeastowl said:

 

Yeah I do think the problem is Bannan mainly. In a two man midfield you need one to sit and the other to push forward when we have the ball. Of the two of them you’d expect Hutch to be the one to sit as a DM so whoever plays with him needs to go forward. Unfortunately it’s not in Bannans game to join in with attacks, how often do you see him picking up a loose ball on the edge of the box and having a shot? 

Thankfully not often. His shooting reminds me of JJ, mainly wild and ending in row Z but the occasional worldy.

[northeastowl]

9 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I think in a two, it’s more a case of both having to push forward when we have the ball, and both having to drop back when we don’t  In a two, with one sitting, and the other breaking forward, the play will be strung out. Both need to work together, as a pair

 

I guess it’s about opinions but I wouldn’t agree with both going forward as when we lose the ball you’ve got too many bodies committed. I’d much prefer one sitting and picking up the bits where needed if the opposition break. 

[gurujuan]

6 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I think we need to play a three. 

 

Gives us more control in the park IF the players are willing to play the system properly. 

 

Issue in the last few games are Hutchinson and Bannan dropping far too deep, meaning we have little to no influence in the middle and final third, hence negating the supposed advantage of having an extra man in the middle. 

 

 

Yep, and we need more movement from those ahead

[meggoisgod]

8 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Hutchinson's tendency to drop deep was there for all to see against QPR last week. His average position (23) was practically the same as Iorfa's (27), which is far from ideal.

 

 

Compare how deep our midfield are to QPR's, and the issue becomes even more stark:

 

 

Six of their players' average positions were in our half, compared to our three.

I would make Hutch captain but play him at right back

 

[handworth52]

we aint addressed the problem so that's the problem , we are so lightweight in midfield its now embarrassing we have a lightweight and ageing bannan,lee and Hutchinson where we needed a 6ft2 plus box to box runner who has loads of energy , we have and will continue to play systems to cover our flaws . 

[Dylan93]

Been an issue for the last four years. Even the play-off games showed our midfield wasn’t good enough. Diame, Huddlestone and Livermoor ran rings around our lads. Then against Huddersfield, Mooy was the difference. We are in desperate need of a big presence, who can carry the ball. Age aren’t on their side either. If we can slowly strengthen that department, it will make us a better side

[gurujuan]

I think it’s difficult to make a true assessment of the midfield, when our options up front are so poor. There is absolutely no movement up front

[Costello 77]

57 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I think it’s difficult to make a true assessment of the midfield, when our options up front are so poor. There is absolutely no movement up front

And that will stay the same until the players are conditioned to commit themselves in the final third.. it's not just about the limits of our striker(s) .. it's a group state of mind..

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Costello 77 said:

And that will stay the same until the players are conditioned to commit themselves in the final third.. it's not just about the limits of our striker(s) .. it's a group state of mind..

Sure, but the lack of movement, and by that I mean clever movement, from the front three, puts us at a clear disadvantage