Jos Luhukay talks about George Hirst and Sean Clare contracts

[latemodelchild]

We offer a contract, player says he wants more, we say no. Impasse. Player leaves or signs. Either way, why play that player if he won't commit? OK, it puts him in the shop window, but is he really going to give 100%?

 

 

[KivoOwl]

8 minutes ago, Buxtongent said:

Both these lads have been offered contracts , as have other youngsters who have signed.

The contracts are there to be signed. I can only assume they won't sign because they consider them unattractive. This brings up two points - 

1. Is it more than first team players are getting?

2. Is it less than first team players are getting?

If the first, then they obviously do not want to stay, and , if so, should NOT be considered for selection.

If the second, is this because the club do not consider them ready for regular first team selection. Don't forget, both these players have yet to prove themselves at first team level., and as such, to pay them even FT rates is a gamble by the club.

 

And making Doyen the scapegoat is a little naive. A  similar situation exists at Derby with other other Agents.

 

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - more the fact that the were instantly frozen out for not signing the first contract offered to them. 

 

Who would stick with an organisation that treats you like that? 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

No problem if they see their future's elsewhere; their prerogative. We'll be compensated if they move to an English club and usually this includes percentage of future sell on fee. If they move and flourish ultimately we'll be well compensated again. If they stagnate as many youngsters do well have saved a significant amount of wages. 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

4 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - more the fact that the were instantly frozen out for not signing the first contract offered to them. 

 

Who would stick with an organisation that treats you like that? 

Is it really the case that zero negotiation took place with both of them and that they were offered one initial take it or leave it offer?

[Standidno]

Have to laugh at the mug on here (forgot his username) saying he'd signed. Fool.

 

£££££

[the mighty wednesday]

5 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - more the fact that the were instantly frozen out for not signing the first contract offered to them. 

 

Who would stick with an organisation that treats you like that? 

You are talking in the plural. I was under the impression that Clare has played for the first team since the RUMOURS of him being frozen out surfaced.

I thought only George Hirst was banned from playing and that Sean Clare cannot play due to a season ending injury and would be in the squad otherwise.

[Standidno]

6 minutes ago, KivoOwl said:

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - more the fact that the were instantly frozen out for not signing the first contract offered to them. 

 

Who would stick with an organisation that treats you like that? 

Have to agree with this

[Hookowl]

20 minutes ago, Xxxxxxxxcxcc said:

Is it really the case that zero negotiation took place with both of them and that they were offered one initial take it or leave it offer?

 

According to DC's statement GH or his agents had various offers/counter offers made by both parties prior to the stalemate position.

[Sonny]

Shame about George, good luck at the clubs you were touting yourself round last summer.

 

Not right bothered about Clare.

[cowl]

18 minutes ago, latemodelchild said:

We offer a contract, player says he wants more, we say no. Impasse. Player leaves or signs. Either way, why play that player if he won't commit? OK, it puts him in the shop window, but is he really going to give 100%?

 

Chansiri stopped Hirst playing all the way back in August though when he still had almost a year left on his current contract.

 

The 'ultimatum' coming from Hirst's agent that Chansiri told us all about here actually took place after Chansiri had already stopped him from playing. Chansiri, needless to say, left this part of the story out.

[kazads]

3 hours ago, cowl said:

 

You've actually no way of knowing that's true whatsoever.

 

Interesting that of those in the U23s that we've offered contracts to, only Hirst and Clare haven't signed yet - and as it so happens, Hirst was actually prevented by Chansiri from playing, and Clare was strongly rumoured to have been for a couple of weeks in January too.

Strongly rumoured!!  Yep that's what you are basing your dislike of DC on ...cos you have no idea what's actually gone on ...

[cowl]

Just now, kazads said:

Strongly rumoured!!  Yep that's what you are basing your dislike of DC on ...cos you have no idea what's actually gone on ...

 

Only the part about Clare was strongly rumoured.

 

Are you disputing that Chansiri stopped Hirst from playing though?

 

Why did Hirst have to ask Chansiri permission to play again for the club if the initial decision to stop him from playing was somebody else's?

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

4 minutes ago, Hookowl said:

 

According to DC's statement GH or his agents had various offers/counter offers made by both parties prior to the stalemate position.

Yes that was my understanding which is why I asked the question.

[dfoster]

1 hour ago, KivoOwl said:

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - more the fact that the were instantly frozen out for not signing the first contract offered to them. 

 

Who would stick with an organisation that treats you like that? 

 

I honestly think that all other concerns would be forgotten if the club offered the money they want. They're pro players. They play football for money. It's not much more complicated than that. In my humble opinion.

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Buxtongent said:

Both these lads have been offered contracts , as have other youngsters who have signed.

The contracts are there to be signed. I can only assume they won't sign because they consider them unattractive. This brings up two points - 

1. Is it more than first team players are getting?

2. Is it less than first team players are getting?

If the first, then they obviously do not want to stay, and , if so, should NOT be considered for selection.

If the second, is this because the club do not consider them ready for regular first team selection. Don't forget, both these players have yet to prove themselves at first team level., and as such, to pay them even FT rates is a gamble by the club.

 

And making Doyen the scapegoat is a little naive. A  similar situation exists at Derby with other other Agents.

 

This is the problem with assuming.  You have only considered two options and they both revolve around how much they are getting paid. 

What if one or both are happy to sign on the agreed wage but want a longer deal?

What if one or both have been offered regular 1st team football elsewhere?

What if one or both are unhappy here?

I’m not saying the examples are true but they could also be options. A lot of people have jumped straight in and assumed it’s down to being offered more money elsewhere.

 

Whatever the reason we’ve got fans who think it’s justified in stopping a kid from playing football over a contract dispute, what a sad indictment.

As far as we know ‘player wants X and club are only prepared to offer Y’ 

Happens all the time, in all forms of employment but especially football because of the short term contracts. How many clubs will right now be negotiating with players over new contracts and will have come to an impasse? I’d say quite a few, how many of them will have acted in the shameful way we have in stopping a player from playing? It’s pathetic.

[BIG D]

5 hours ago, BIG D said:

Even if the daft lad had been playing he still wasn’t going to sign his deal. Chansiri has the club more at heart than George Hirst, that much is obvious. 

So Geoffrey and Kivo you reckon Hirst has the club more at heart than Chansiri? 

 

 

[BIG D]

2 hours ago, KivoOwl said:

I don't think money is a big issue tbh - 

 

Dont talk wet 

[33]

Never mind, it is understood the money we will save by not agreeing a deal at a level that would have kept them both here will cover just over half of Buttercup’s wages.

 

Let that sink in for a moment...!

 

A seasoned professional at this level though eh...?

[Luke]

4 hours ago, Shezza said:

Pretty obvious that neither will sign. Won’t lose any sleep over it. Representative of what football’s become for me. Greed and shortsightedness. Good riddance.

Spot on 

 

Pure greed over playing for a club they claim to love 

 

 

[KivoOwl]

2 hours ago, the mighty wednesday said:

You are talking in the plural. I was under the impression that Clare has played for the first team since the RUMOURS of him being frozen out surfaced.

I thought only George Hirst was banned from playing and that Sean Clare cannot play due to a season ending injury and would be in the squad otherwise.

It wasn't a rumour - Clare was 100% frozen out of the reckoning altogether - until an injury to Wallace meant he was needed for first team duty.