Adam Reach says criticism of Jos Luhukay is misplaced

[ramone]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

I think it’s because we have played these players so often recently that it’s become ‘the norm’ when in reality it’s a side that would easily get relegated if we played these players from the start of the season till the end of it 

Just because you keep saying things over and over again, it doesn't start making the comment true.

 

The team we have at the moment is more than capable of achieving a mid table in the Championship. Constantly making excuses for it is just becoming plain boring now, there is NO excuse for the shower of poo they're serving up on the pitch. 

 

You saying this team would be relegated just makes you look like you've never watched a game of football in your life. 

[prowl]

CC wasn't doing very well with most of the first team fit. To expect Jos to do better with most of them injured is asking too much.

 

We need to stay up this year which we should do, then we need to get rid of the out of contract players and a few of the others who aren't up to the required standard or who are perpetually injured. We need to find and remedy the cause of all our injuries, then we need to strengthen where we are weak.

 

That will take longer than just this summer, it might take all of next season. Then we can see where we are and how Jos has performed. Will he be allowed that amount of time? Who knows.

[shezzas left peg]

2 hours ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

So to be clear. You’re suggesting that whatever a manager says or does on the training ground or in the dressing room makes no difference whatsoever?  You’re saying that it’s inpossible for a football club manager to influence or improve the performance of his team. It’s only down to players. Using that logic, Alex Ferguson couldn’t get a better performance out of this Wednesday team and you could’ve won the Champions League as Manchester United manager. Strange that none of the 92 League teams have bought into your ingenious theory and decided to do away with managers all together as whatever they say doesn’t “make a blind bit of difference” 

Think about what Holloway did with a rag tag bunch of cheap misfits and outcasts? 

THEY weren't good enough either, but somehow he managed to get people like varney into the Premier league for a few seasons. A good manager makes average players better with the right tactics, training and tactical nous on the pitch. 

[Watto]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Nope

 

And to be blunt it’s very obvious that I didn’t 

 

 

 

I’m saying Jos Luhukay is working with reserve team players and junior players in the Championship

 

I honestly can’t see why Wednesday fans are so blinded to that 

 

I think it’s because we have played these players so often recently that it’s become ‘the norm’ when in reality it’s a side that would easily get relegated if we played these players from the start of the season till the end of it.

Just because these players have had so many games recently out of neccessity doesn't mean it's a team that can compete in this division.

 

We've never had a strong squad for this division then just a good first Xl ?

[gypsyowl]

Adam reach needs to shut up & concentrate on his own recent performances as he’s been crap recently 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I"m not sure why you're not grasping this one

 

It's really easy

 

Imagine you rounded up a load of us lot off the forums and took a team talk before sending us out to play the SWFC Under 18's

Wouldn't make a blind bit of difference what you said

We'd get drubbed

Because we're not good enough, fit enough to compete

The players Jos has are not good enough for the Championship

That's evident from the league position, the results and the performances.

This is where we differ. I totally agree that the players are not good enough to win the championship or to compete consistently at the top. But I do believe that our players are good enough to beat Bolton at home, not lose to Ipswich at home, not to be so terrified of losing at Millwall that we played without strikers and IMO our players were good enough on the day to beat Swansea at Hillsborough had we shown a different approach. 

 

Before you fire back with the bland diatribe that all our available players are “not good enough for the championship”. Please take al look at the match day squads of Bolton, Ipswich, Millwall, Preston (even Bristol City) and the Blunts (twice) when we played them to name a handful. Few household names, no superstars. Then look at the match day squad JL could’ve chosen. Then tell me honestly that you think our players are worse than theirs.

 

Jones and Boyd have proven premiership pedigree. Pudl and Abdi featured prominently in promotion winning teams. Reach was hailed as a major coup and talent when we signed him. Palmer, Hunt are solid championship players who haven’t let us down in previous seasons. Joao looks top half championship on his day. Whether you like them or whether they are underperforming doesn’t make them are “not good enough for the championship”

 

P.S. prefer you didn’t patronise the poster by suggesting I’m  “not grasping” your logic just because I don’t agree with it.  

 

Re your park analogy it makes no sense because our forum team wouldn’t be in the same division as Owls U18. If Owls were playing Barca in a friendly then I get your argument  We’d get drubbed whoever was our manager. But Bolton etc are not Barca.

[slinger208b]

36 minutes ago, owlmanc said:

If they are not good enough why are they picking up wages that dwarf other players at other clubs. Butterfield earns 3x more than Bolton’s highest earner 

 

Because of the contract...

[slinger208b]

31 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

But what are training sessions? Surely that’s when a manger gets his message across on how he expects his team to set up, deal with certain situations e.g. set pieces, and the tactics he wants them to employ in the next game....

 

Which is what Reach is saying Jos hadn't had chance to achieve...

[owlmanc]

2 minutes ago, slinger208b said:

 

Because of the contract...

So we are offering big money to players who are not good enough for the first team. The point I am making our “reserves” have lots of experience, enough to compete and win games in the championship. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by owlmanc

[Owls-Fan]

2 hours ago, Southie_Owl said:

 

Yep motivating the players before and during games is something he could be doing already, which seems to be lacking 

 

And I’m not sure what ideas Reach is waiting to hear, maybe beating the first man whenever you cross the ball, and also not kicking it out of play over everyone’s head, are two of the ideas Jos will implement when he has more time 

 

Also I haven’t spent any time with the players but even I know that Palmer should have been taken off against Ipswich, and that when you start losing in the 87th minute, one idea is to replace one of your 5 defenders with another attacker and hope something falls to them in the box from Nuhiu’s knock downs. 

 

But still, can’t blame Jos for any of that 

 

Spot on mate. Apparantly Jos hasn’t had enough time to implement his ideas? He’s had over 2 months of being in each other’s company as much as possible.

this week they can realistically spend 50 hours learning his ideas, let’s see what that produces against Leeds on Saturday 

[slinger208b]

1 minute ago, owlmanc said:

So we are offering big money to players who are not good enough for the first team. The point I am making our “reserves” have lots of experience, enough to compete and win games in the championship. 

 

It certainly looks like it.

 

Individuals don't make a team...

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

2 hours ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

So to be clear. You’re suggesting that whatever a manager says or does on the training ground or in the dressing room makes no difference whatsoever?  You’re saying that it’s inpossible for a football club manager to influence or improve the performance of his team. It’s only down to players. Using that logic, Alex Ferguson couldn’t get a better performance out of this Wednesday team and you could’ve won the Champions League as Manchester United manager. Strange that none of the 92 League teams have bought into your ingenious theory and decided to do away with managers all together as whatever they say doesn’t “make a blind bit of difference” 

It's worth remembering that even Alex Ferguson took quite some time, and a lot of money, before his dynasty started to take shape. I recall fans calling for him to be sacked after 3 years of no success despite spending big money and being given time. Of course it eventually clicked in his 5th season and the rest is history. Howard Kendall at Everton was a similar story early days.

 

Jos is operating with a shocking injury list, poor fitness levels and weather restricted training and he's spent a modest sum on one player. For me it is far too early to condemn him. I suspect that his brief is to keep us up this season and then revolutionise things in the summer with wheeling/dealing, enhanced fitness and a full pre-season to bed in his own ideas. I'm sure that we'll stay up this season and the key time to judge will come next season. I like that, despite the pressure he must feel, he is not buckling to the temptation to bring back unfit and unprepared players as has been done in the recent past to enormously damaging effect.

 

Short term 'honeymoon' success often is followed by failure (Irvine!). Long term success conversely is often built more slowly on solid foundations. 

[Orlando_Trustful]

I like Reach, but who at the club is forcing him to release such shybo statements?

[@owlstalk]

11 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

This is where we differ. I totally agree that the players are not good enough to win the championship or to compete consistently at the top. But I do believe that our players are good enough to beat Bolton at home, not lose to Ipswich at home, not to be so terrified of losing at Millwall that we played without strikers and IMO our players were good enough on the day to beat Swansea at Hillsborough had we shown a different approach. 

 

Before you fire back with the bland diatribe that all our available players are “not good enough for the championship”. Please take al look at the match day squads of Bolton, Ipswich, Millwall, Preston (even Bristol City) and the Blunts (twice) when we played them to name a handful. Few household names, no superstars. Then look at the match day squad JL could’ve chosen. Then tell me honestly that you think our players are worse than theirs.

 

Jones and Boyd have proven premiership pedigree. Pudl and Abdi featured prominently in promotion winning teams. Reach was hailed as a major coup and talent when we signed him. Palmer, Hunt are solid championship players who haven’t let us down in previous seasons. Joao looks top half championship on his day. Whether you like them or whether they are underperforming doesn’t make them are “not good enough for the championship”

 

P.S. prefer you didn’t patronise the poster by suggesting I’m  “not grasping” your logic just because I don’t agree with it.  

 

Re your park analogy it makes no sense because our forum team wouldn’t be in the same division as Owls U18. If Owls were playing Barca in a friendly then I get your argument  We’d get drubbed whoever was our manager. But Bolton etc are not Barca.

 

 

You're just not grasping this are you?

 

 

(just joking)

You make some good points but I still believe you're incorrect and you're giving way too much credit to the players at Jos' disposal since he arrived, their fitness levels, their confidence levels, the atmosphere they're being asked to play in, the surrounding press and fan negativity and more.

The current situation would turn the greatest of players into nervous wrecks (regardless of manager - including Megson)

 

But the current side just isn't good enough to compete, to beat Bolton, or to get wins in the Championship in the current situation, as is evidenced by results

 

 

[slinger208b]

I agree.. 

[ramone]

14 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

This is where we differ. I totally agree that the players are not good enough to win the championship or to compete consistently at the top. But I do believe that our players are good enough to beat Bolton at home, not lose to Ipswich at home, not to be so terrified of losing at Millwall that we played without strikers and IMO our players were good enough on the day to beat Swansea at Hillsborough had we shown a different approach. 

 

Before you fire back with the bland diatribe that all our available players are “not good enough for the championship”. Please take al look at the match day squads of Bolton, Ipswich, Millwall, Preston (even Bristol City) and the Blunts (twice) when we played them to name a handful. Few household names, no superstars. Then look at the match day squad JL could’ve chosen. Then tell me honestly that you think our players are worse than theirs.

 

Jones and Boyd have proven premiership pedigree. Pudl and Abdi featured prominently in promotion winning teams. Reach was hailed as a major coup and talent when we signed him. Palmer, Hunt are solid championship players who haven’t let us down in previous seasons. Joao looks top half championship on his day. Whether you like them or whether they are underperforming doesn’t make them are “not good enough for the championship”

 

P.S. prefer you didn’t patronise the poster by suggesting I’m  “not grasping” your logic just because I don’t agree with it.  

 

Re your park analogy it makes no sense because our forum team wouldn’t be in the same division as Owls U18. If Owls were playing Barca in a friendly then I get your argument  We’d get drubbed whoever was our manager. But Bolton etc are not Barca.

Absolutely bang on the money. I find it staggering how someone can sit there and be a serious as Neil is when he says the players aren't good enough for the Championship. They are more than capable. Its the mindset they're being sent onto the pitch with. 

 

Resting players at Milwall for us to get spanked at home to Villa was the final straw for me. At that point I realised this manager literally has no clue. 

[ramone]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

You're just not grasping this are you?

 

 

(just joking)

You make some good points but I still believe you're incorrect and you're giving way too much credit to the players at Jos' disposal since he arrived, their fitness levels, their confidence levels, the atmosphere they're being asked to play in, the surrounding press and fan negativity and more.

The current situation would turn the greatest of players into nervous wrecks (regardless of manager - including Megson)

 

But the current side just isn't good enough to compete, to beat Bolton, or to get wins in the Championship in the current situation, as is evidenced by results

 

 

Rubbish

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, ramone said:

Absolutely bang on the money. I find it staggering how someone can sit there and be a serious as Neil is when he says the players aren't good enough for the Championship. They are more than capable. Its the mindset they're being sent onto the pitch with. 

No it isn't

The mindset is just one element of a very complex situation

But this is where I think Wednesday fans have been totally numbed to the current side being sent out to play. 

Just because weak players are being sent out in the blue and white of Sheffield Wednesday for so many weeks to play games doesn't mean that they become good enough. 

Any neutral would look at the sides we've sent out in recent times (since the first team all disappeared) and laughed at you for suggesting that it's good enough to compete in this Championship.

I genuinely believe you've become numb to it over time and have lost all sense of perspective.


Ps if you ran a poll of Sheffield Wednesday fans listing the team starting lineups that we've sent out since the first team disappeared, said that was going to be our first team squad next season, and asking where it would finish I reckon it'd get voted as a 'lower mid table finish'

If you did the same with football fans who know the Championship they'd say relegation

Plus the club wouldn't buy season tickets to watch it

Fans are becoming numb to it all and losing perspective 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

3 minutes ago, Orlando_Trustful said:

I like Reach, but who at the club is forcing him to release such shybo statements?

I'd guess he's just responding to journalists' questions. Some are natural communicators; others have to work at it. I'd imagine he'll read the printing of his comments and think with hindsight he could have phrased it better or even that what he's said has been put in a different context. Slippery coves these Johnny Journalist types.

[ramone]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

No it isn't

The mindset is just one element of a very complex situation

But this is where I think Wednesday fans have been totally numbed to the current side being sent out to play. 

Just because weak players are being sent out in the blue and white of Sheffield Wednesday for so many weeks to play games doesn't mean that they become good enough. 

Any neutral would look at the sides we've sent out in recent times (since the first team all disappeared) and laughed at you for suggesting that it's good enough to compete in this Championship.

I genuinely believe you've become numb to it over time and have lost all sense of perspective

Again, rubbish