Etchesketch Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Huddersfield are shutting their Academy saying they have produced 1 Premier League player in Jon Stead since 1999. Got me thinking and I don't think we have produced a Premier League player through the ranks of our own since we were actually in the League in 2000! Whelan/Brunt joined us at 20 from other clubs and we kickstarted their career but the likes of Wood, Spurr, Beevers have never played in the Premier League. Poor example to cite by Huddersfield as they have produced lots of players who have played for their first team in this time and are now at other clubs like our own Jack Hunt and have had decent careers. The goalkeeper in the Toulon win for England this year was an Huddersfield player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Seems an odd decision.. I'd probably question the scouting and academy director/coaches rather than just shut it. Still if it's not producing then i guess you have to ask the question as to it's value. You could ask the same about ours i guess.. what has ours produced over the years. A few average championship players. Hirst might be the first genuine player we'll get from it, but even then, is it worth all the money that's been pumped into it over the years. It does seem like something you should either do or not do. Some clubs seem to have excellent academies that produce regularly. But a half-assed academy seems like a waste of money. We certainly seem to be a club that buys it's players, with Palmer, Wildsmith and Dawson the only youth products currently in the squad. While Wildsmith has promise and will have a good career, I think if any of those were our first choice for their positions right now, we'd all be saying we needed to sign someone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I just think the 'only Premier League player we have produced' is a poor barometer to use for a club like Huddrsfield. Over the last twenty years a lot of clubs who have been in the Football League, like ours, have not produced Premier League players. They have a decent record with producing EFL players though. That should be their barometer. They are still going to have an Under 18 and Under 23 side though so it is not going completely. Thy still will have academy status but Cat 4. Will still have scholars but I guess they will be picked up at 16 instead. This happens a lot of the time anyway. A lot of our scholars joined at 16 after being elsewhere. Dawodu was at Arsenal, the Bulgarian and Lithuanian lads. Dan Wallis joined at 16 and Connor O'Grady had been at Man Utd as a schoolboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Judge Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 There's no denying that we are a million miles behind our Sheffield Neighbors in terms of our academy. For sure it's a big weakness for a club our size, especially now we're new money!! $$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookeh Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Aye, that's why i can see the argument for not having an academy. Between 'not quite made its' at top clubs and 'promising talents' that can be stolen from smaller clubs, it is potentially a lot easier to fill your youth sides (u18, u23) with potential first teamers. I guess the benefits of the academy are that you can try and scout player young and bring them up playing the culture of football that you want to play at senior level. At a club like ours (or Huddersfield), that's quite a changeable thing tho. Promotions, relegations, managerial changes, all make the style of play and formations/systems used quite variable over the space of a few years. That leaves academies of a lesser value to english clubs, rather than some continental sides which adopt the director of football model and so have more of a club ethos type of approach. The other benefit is guess is to try and keep players loyal should you get a talented youngster come thru.. we may well find out in the summer just how well that works. Personally i think money and first team opportunity play a much larger role in young players loyalty. When you consider that we have a cat 2 academy and therefore are have to spend around 1.5mil on it every year, could that money be better used to further the clubs premier league ambitions? probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 A lot of the money must be spent on the players and coaching in the 8-16 year old age groups yet when it come to signing scholars full time at the club at 16 only three or four will have come through to that stage. The other four or five will be players we have picked up from exit trials that have been released by Prem clubs or overseas kids like Borukov, Gavrilov, Brazinskas and Hammoud that we have. Seems a lot of money to spend for little reward. Out of last years U16s only Shaw, Rice, Render and Waldock have signed for the club as full time scholars-the others get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Starling Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Didn't Newcastle do the same when Keegan was manager and then spent time trying to play catch up when they started it up again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 We need to keep the Academy open just look at the talent that is currently plying it's trade at U18 and U23 level, there is HUGE potential there and DC recognised this hence the continued spending. We are supposed to be a community club (same as Huddersfield) so what message does that send out to aspiring youngsters that we ain't interested as you are not worth the outlay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Starling Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Etchesketch said: Huddersfield are shutting their Academy saying they have produced 1 Premier League player in Jon Stead since 1999. Got me thinking and I don't think we have produced a Premier League player through the ranks of our own since we were actually in the League in 2000! Whelan/Brunt joined us at 20 from other clubs and we kickstarted their career but the likes of Wood, Spurr, Beevers have never played in the Premier League. Poor example to cite by Huddersfield as they have produced lots of players who have played for their first team in this time and are now at other clubs like our own Jack Hunt and have had decent careers. The goalkeeper in the Toulon win for England this year was an Huddersfield player. Just heard its been shut already with this seasons games cancelled and players released with immediate effect downgrading from cat 2 to cat 4. I know we were advertising for academy coaches so wonder if some will end up at Middlewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 All the more reason that Cadamarteri will have been pleased that Burnley came in for him as their U18s coach just as he was to go and work at Town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigash_swfc Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Clubs and players progress at different rates. Money allows a quick fix. Young english players aren't given a chance. Imagine watching England in 5 to 10 years from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Quote 1 minute ago, cowl said: All the more reason that Cadamarteri will have been pleased that Burnley came in for him as their U18s coach just as he was to go and work at Town. They are keeping the under 18s so he would have been ok probably if that is the job he was going to take. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said: Just heard its been shut already with this seasons games cancelled and players released with immediate effect downgrading from cat 2 to cat 4. I know we were advertising for academy coaches so wonder if some will end up at Middlewood. Downgrading means they still keep their U18s but does anyone know what would happen if anything below that. Do they go back to an old school of excellence like they did before and like non academy clubs did or do they do nothing at that level and just scout players at 16 to sign as scholars be it local kids who have not already been picked up or those released at other clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upperwinngardensowl Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 While ever there is a craving for immediate success or the manager will be sacked then there will be less chance of someone taking a risk on blooding players. What you need is a manager who is around for more than 2 years who can then give youth a chance.... oh, wait......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, cookeh said: Aye, that's why i can see the argument for not having an academy. Between 'not quite made its' at top clubs and 'promising talents' that can be stolen from smaller clubs, it is potentially a lot easier to fill your youth sides (u18, u23) with potential first teamers. I guess the benefits of the academy are that you can try and scout player young and bring them up playing the culture of football that you want to play at senior level. At a club like ours (or Huddersfield), that's quite a changeable thing tho. Promotions, relegations, managerial changes, all make the style of play and formations/systems used quite variable over the space of a few years. That leaves academies of a lesser value to english clubs, rather than some continental sides which adopt the director of football model and so have more of a club ethos type of approach. The other benefit is guess is to try and keep players loyal should you get a talented youngster come thru.. we may well find out in the summer just how well that works. Personally i think money and first team opportunity play a much larger role in young players loyalty. When you consider that we have a cat 2 academy and therefore are have to spend around 1.5mil on it every year, could that money be better used to further the clubs premier league ambitions? probably. We obviously don't have a director of football at the moment but it's been suggested on here several times that our footballing philosophy from the top goes right through to the bottom which suggests this will be taken into account when we at some stage in the future replace Carlos as Head Coach or surely it's pointless having the practices we currently have in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) Read somewhere that you have to produce a 5 million pound player every few seasons in order to make the academy worth while and that doubles if you are category 1. Most clubs only have academy's as a PR thing as ultimately hardly any make you money. Southampton's though being one exception to the rule. I am mainly talking top academys when I say 5 million Edited September 19, 2017 by pazowl55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveger Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Damn read the thread title and was hoping to find a link to mini suitcases and pencil cases and the like, imagine my disappointment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Etchesketch said: I just think the 'only Premier League player we have produced' is a poor barometer to use for a club like Huddrsfield. Over the last twenty years a lot of clubs who have been in the Football League, like ours, have not produced Premier League players. They have a decent record with producing EFL players though. That should be their barometer. They are still going to have an Under 18 and Under 23 side though so it is not going completely. Thy still will have academy status but Cat 4. Will still have scholars but I guess they will be picked up at 16 instead. This happens a lot of the time anyway. A lot of our scholars joined at 16 after being elsewhere. Dawodu was at Arsenal, the Bulgarian and Lithuanian lads. Dan Wallis joined at 16 and Connor O'Grady had been at Man Utd as a schoolboy. Maybe they're getting a bit above themselves and thinking that they're going to be in the PL long term. They may need some of these EFL class youngsters in a few years when the parachute payments have stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgmetcalf Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 It depends how much support goes into it. Since DC has been here it's come on leaps and bounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpowl Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 It seems a sensible business decision. If you keep your under21s and under23s to pick up better released players and keep the fringe pros and ones returning from injury fit but shut all the sides from under 20s downwards. this would surely give you bigger budget to attract the best available whilst even saving money. I would be interest to see the cost of running the academies against money generated in sales or predicted money saved in filling a first team place. The cost for transports, coaching, scounting, and general running costs much be huge and I always think we don't get a return. The gane as changed so so much over the years premier league teams rarely gamble on youth unless they are top of the tree. There are more foreigners and senior pros at that level now and due to the money they have they will snap players up young or pay for them when they start playing league football elsewhere. The championship is very much so getting like the premier league. So how are you going to make money? you need an absaloute gem. Rooney type coming through and forcing his way into the first team then doing the business. This rarely happens you could argue injuries at Man Utd gave rashford his chance. Could George Hirst be out radford- yes but we don't have injuries. And like so many teams will not gamble and there for where he could potentially be sold for 15 million plus in a season if he got the chance and delivered will go for 2million a tribunal to premier league youth team and he loaned out. I often think what th money dominating the sport today. They are unnessary expense unless they actually bring first team players through regulary. I'm keen to see how many brake through into our team in next few years. we have an ageing squad. With what seems like a great youth set up. Penny, Hirst, Claire, all the keepers. O'Grady how many of these will start to come in or will we go out and buy again. You have to start asking if it's latter. What's the point about from hoping on the fairy tale of bringing of developing an international who represents both our club and country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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