Beauchief Owl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) We've spent 1.5 million on left backs from Charlton, Fox and Wiggins, and TBH Penney could be better than either. If we're not going to give youngsters the opportunity to step up, even to the bench, what is the point of developing these players?( We got back 250k for Wiggins but that was a 500k loss!) Edited October 12, 2017 by Beauchief Owl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Membership of the Unofficial Matt Penney Fan Club seems to be increasing by the day I only hope his agent doesn't twig on, otherwise negotiations for a new deal are as good as scuppered already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olibeak Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Fear not, Ethel. Football for the Brave is no academic tome. It's short, pithy and accessible. Cartwright says his footballing philosophy is based on the great Liverpool teams of the 70s and 80s, and he argues that we started to lose our way in this country when we lost street football, and the instinctive, innovative skills that that bred in youngsters. But it's not dinosaur stuff -- his "practice play" methods show that good coaching can still replicate the days when streets weren't full of cars, and academies weren't snapping up kids barely out of nappies and drilling them into becoming joyless robots -- rather than fun-loving, two-footed magicians like Chrissie Waddle (see below -- and I defy you not to smile when you watch the video). The book is not a whinge -- it's a football lover's lament for what was, and what still could be with the right people in charge of developing talented young 'uns such as Penney, Clare and the rest. It was published in 2008, I think, but is still available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Football-Brave-John-Cartwright/dp/0955591783), and this review on there sums it up pretty well: "As it says on the blurb, it's not a coaching manual. But that's exactly why coaches should read this.Put down your neatly drawn square grids and your endless number of 'drills' for a minute. Cartwright will help you take a step back and think about your coaching philosophy in general. For him it's not about teaching 'technique', a player simply being capable of doing something, it's about 'skill', which is having the intelligence to know how to use it in a game.It's a very good book full of straightforward (and in many instances common sense) points on how and what we should be coaching our youth. Don't expect to come out of it with more drills for your file, expect a better awareness of the direction you're taking your players in - which should really be the emphasis. Too many academies are concentrating on producing robotic, technically proficient players. What we need to be teaching is the production of free-thinking players who have creativity, flair, game intelligence - that's what this book is about.Just one small criticism, the examples he gives of players in the book are a tiny bit dated now, but still don't detract enough from the overall message." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 When you see Daniel Pudil being played as a makeshift centre back/pre season rather than giving the likes of Thorniley or O'Grady a chance in the first team you know things aren't looking good for young players here. Yes Pudil might have been adequate but that is not the point. How do the young players feel when the manager would rather play somebody out of position than give a young player a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 7 hours ago, malek said: Thing is that Penney already is better then likes of Pudil and Fox, and only reason why he is not in the first team squad right now is his age. so he's a better than a bloke with the pedigree of pudil or one with over a 100 league apps but not good enough to displace Bradford city's left back .......how can you possibly know that the only reason he isn't in the squad is because he isnt old enough ?......i'll give you an alternative view ,he isn't in the squad because we have 3 others who are better than him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Etchesketch said: When you see Daniel Pudil being played as a makeshift centre back/pre season rather than giving the likes of Thorniley or O'Grady a chance in the first team you know things aren't looking good for young players here. Yes Pudil might have been adequate but that is not the point. How do the young players feel when the manager would rather play somebody out of position than give a young player a chance? perhaps carlos thought pudil was the better bet for the position and (to me at least ) that is the most important point .....you cant play a young player just because he might be hurt if you don't the team as to be picked on merit not age . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, torryowl said: so he's a better than a bloke with the pedigree of pudil or one with over a 100 league apps but not good enough to displace Bradford city's left back .......how can you possibly know that the only reason he isn't in the squad is because he isnt old enough ?......i'll give you an alternative view ,he isn't in the squad because we have 3 others who are better than him . ^ a fair argument, you have to admit Pudil - a 32yr old pro with close to 400 league apps to his credit, plus 33 full international caps and another 24 at youth level - bought for a fee around £1.2m Fox - 24yr old, around 120 senior apps and 7 caps at U21 - cost around £700k Both likely to find themselves behind Adam Reach, depending on team selection Matt Penney - 19yr old, bags of potential but precious little experience - not yet considered a member of our 1st team squad Patience fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 10 hours ago, torryowl said: so he's a better than a bloke with the pedigree of pudil or one with over a 100 league apps but not good enough to displace Bradford city's left back .......how can you possibly know that the only reason he isn't in the squad is because he isnt old enough ?......i'll give you an alternative view ,he isn't in the squad because we have 3 others who are better than him . Just because you have experience doesn't make you better. A lot of people would say George Hirst is better than Nuhiu!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 penney no doubt needs to go out on loan and get some games under his belt but that's not as easy as it sounds .....I doubt any league club would enter into a deal that guarantees a young lad with no experience whatsoever a starting place and he could well find himself in the same position he was in last season at Bradford . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Should be going on short loans, as allowed, in the National League. ideal for someone at 19. Our neighbours do it all the time with their young pros but for some reason we never do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Etchesketch said: Just because you have experience doesn't make you better. A lot of people would say George Hirst is better than Nuhiu!!! the ones that matter and have seen him play every game these last 2 seasons don't seem to agree .......it's daft comparing him to nuhiu ,he hardly plays these days and when he does get on it's always to utilise his height and strength usually when we are under the cosh away from home defending a lead or chasing a goal by lobbing "hail Mary's" in his direction ....if your going to compare who hirst is up against for a place then imo you need to be looking at the other strikers and not sure he's better than hoops'fletch, Rhodes,winnal. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Etchesketch said: Should be going on short loans, as allowed, in the National League. ideal for someone at 19. Our neighbours do it all the time with their young pros but for some reason we never do these players the blunts send out to the national league do they ever comeback and make the 1st team .?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, torryowl said: these players the blunts send out to the national league do they ever comeback and make the 1st team .?...... Yes. A certain David Brooks went to Halifax. Sick of hearing about him!!! Hate to say it but you can see why their Academy for ages 16 and above beats us all ends up. They do things right. Article in the Star yesterday saying 41 Academy products of theirs in the League! We have about 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, torryowl said: the ones that matter and have seen him play every game these last 2 seasons don't seem to agree .......it's daft comparing him to nuhiu ,he hardly plays these days and when he does get on it's always to utilise his height and strength usually when we are under the cosh away from home defending a lead or chasing a goal by lobbing "hail Mary's" in his direction ....if your going to compare who hirst is up against for a place then imo you need to be looking at the other strikers and not sure he's better than hoops'fletch, Rhodes,winnal. FF I was just using Nuhiu to emphasise the point. Lots of comments on here saying he has been taking Hirsts place on the bench. I don't necessarily agree myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Etchesketch said: Yes. A certain David Brooks went to Halifax. Sick of hearing about him!!! Hate to say it but you can see why their Academy for ages 16 and above beats us all ends up. They do things right. Article in the Star yesterday saying 41 Academy products of theirs in the League! We have about 7. 41 is very good cant argue with that ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 By adding 'SWFC' to the title of this thread, are the mods quietly objecting to the recent (slight) deviation from topic? Well it is International Break tha knows, such things are bound to happen Their time would be better spent keeping the forum clear of innocent words and phrases that might, just might be treated as sexual innuendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 hours ago, torryowl said: so he's a better than a bloke with the pedigree of pudil or one with over a 100 league apps but not good enough to displace Bradford city's left back .......how can you possibly know that the only reason he isn't in the squad is because he isnt old enough ?......i'll give you an alternative view ,he isn't in the squad because we have 3 others who are better than him . I've seen all 3 of them play, and don't doubt one bit that right now Penney is better player then other two. Pudil was good few years ago, but he is not the same player these days. Fox was always very average for me, and still can't understand why we paid to bring him in ?! At Bradford Penney was brought in as a back up to James Meredith, their best player (won their player of the year), and best left-back in that league (got selected in League One Team of the Year). No matter how well Penney did in training, there is no chance he would have replaced Meredith in Bradford's starting 11. And yes, Meredith is a better player then both Pudil and Fox. I can't know for sure if age is the only reason why Penney is not in our first team, but everything points down to that. Him not been as good as Pudil and Fox is simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel The Tree Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/accrington_stanley/news/15593548.Stanley_boss_Coleman_hoping_to_turn_some_of_his_loan_moves_into_permanent_deals/?ref=mac Not sure the title refers to Jordan Thorniley especially But the article does highlight the problems of clubs taking on more loanees than are allowed to play at any one time Accrington have eight, Port Vale seven Jordan is getting selected regularly, Jack Stobbs less so But I suppose a few results, one way or another, can quickly alter both situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladeshater Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 hours ago, malek said: I've seen all 3 of them play, and don't doubt one bit that right now Penney is better player then other two. Pudil was good few years ago, but he is not the same player these days. Fox was always very average for me, and still can't understand why we paid to bring him in ?! At Bradford Penney was brought in as a back up to James Meredith, their best player (won their player of the year), and best left-back in that league (got selected in League One Team of the Year). No matter how well Penney did in training, there is no chance he would have replaced Meredith in Bradford's starting 11. And yes, Meredith is a better player then both Pudil and Fox. I can't know for sure if age is the only reason why Penney is not in our first team, but everything points down to that. Him not been as good as Pudil and Fox is simply wrong. Would like to see him at the next level before I would compare him to pudil or fox I have seen him about a dozen times and I'm still not sure I would include him in a first team squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scram Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 It's absurd to say Penney is better than Pudil or Fox Penney may well have attributes and potential - but non-league is full of players that had those but couldn't transpose them to the big stage If/when Penney does start to prove himself will be the time to make such ridiculous claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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