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Olibeak

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About Olibeak

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  1. Olibeak

    Clare rejected us??

    I rarely check out or comment on Owlstalk these days because of the ludicrously inaccurate assertions of the itk bar-room bull shiners, but as I've posted elsewhere, I know from a very reliable source (please, don't be daft enough to ask me to name who it is! I'm not going to drop them in it) Clare was brought back from his Gillingham loan, offered a one-year contract (with a one-year option in the club's favour), and £750 a week - eventually doubled to £1500 pw and two years after he made his impressive first team breakthrough -- because of a raft of injuries. That's hardly a life-changing offer for someone aged 21 who, at the time, had 40 League games under his belt. Nor is it a ringing endorsement of his potential by the club. Clare, Hirst and Penney went with the first team on their pre-season jolly to Portugal two years ago, and Clare even played the full 90 mins against Portimonense. What message do you think they took from CC and the club not even taking them on the last pre-season tour? Despite Clare having established himself in the Accy first team before an ankle stress fracture ended his season early. I'm as frustrated as anyone about losing young talent such as Hirst and Clare, but fully understand why they would be inclined to move to a club where they feel really rated and wanted. And good luck to them, as we'd almost certainly do the same in our jobs. In football, you have to back your judgement. Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes wrong. I really hope, and believe, that the combination of Jos and Katrien will convince DC that securing development and progression of our good young uns is the way forward -' especially in these days of FFP. Sadly, I think it's come too late for us to repair the situation with the likes of Hirst and Clare. They will move on (I understand why, and don't wish them ill, as I'm sure they're not the stereotypically nasty money-grubbing little gits they're accused of being on OT), and hopefully so will our youth policy. UTO
  2. Olibeak

    Clare rejected us??

    Five second div games (four starts, and one sub against they who shall remain nameless) doesn't tell the whole story, m'lud. Compare these stats with those of the other young uns who've accepted offers. And also compare the ages. (Clare will be 22 in September -- hardly an academy kid in a profession where the estimated period for real earning power is roughly only eight years.) https://www.transfermarkt.com/sean-clare/leistungsdaten/spieler/425456 As for some of the other comments in this thread about players thinking they are better than they are, I can't name any top sportsperson who achieved anything without believing in their own ability. Much as it pains me, the club has been way off the mark in recent years in terms of pushing good young uns through to the first team (can you imagine Hirst or Clare signing for a team "managed" by CC?). Let's hope that Jos and Katrien can convince the chairman that there really is another way.
  3. Olibeak

    Clare rejected us??

    Sorry to gainsay you, m'lord, but I've just returned from a trip to the north Kent coast on distant family business, and have unearthed some evidence to the contrary while digging about to find out what all the fuss is about Clare. None of us likes to lose any of our promising young uns, and I've no idea if the latest rumour is true, but according to a Kent Messenger interview this particular lad is certainly no knuckle-dragger. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/sport/sean-clare-gillingham-charlton-return-157705/ Heard that he was offered a university place before being selected at the global trials for the Nike Academy (then playing against academy teams from the likes of Barcelona, PSG, AC Milan, Prem clubs, and even first teams of the likes of Burton, while our lads were pitting their skills against Dog & Duck equivalents). Previously played in a very strong Charlton academy team with the likes of Joe Gomez and Kasey Palmer. But here's the real killer: heard that he was recalled from his Gills loan and offered a one-year contract on £750 a week (development squad dosh for someone who by then had played 40 first team games in leagues 1 and 2). Hardly a ringing endorsement of his potential by the club. After his Owls breakthrough, it was then upped to 2 years and doubled to 1,500 notes, which is what Gills were offering when they tried to sign him in the Jan transfer window. Wtf are we playing at trying to get our good young uns on the cheap? In fact, we might just owe Hirsty and Clare a big thanks in the future, as Katrien has come in, seen what's been happening, and we now appear to be getting our promising young uns signed up on longer contracts than the derisory one-year tosh. Halle-bloody-leujah!
  4. Jos blaming Clare for a goal should not even be an issue for debate on here. It should all have been handled in-house. End of story. Instead, he doesn't just simply make the "shock horror" statement that Clare (aged 21) still has a lot to learn (the same would also appear to apply to players a lot older than him) and leave it at that, but goes on unnecessarily, and at considerable length and in training-ground detail, about what he should have done to prevent the goal. Looking at Clare in interviews and at his general intelligent play on the pitch, he seems like a bright, grounded lad who would know full well and be angry that he'd been cleverly blindsided -- by a highly experienced player (aged 34) with 500-plus games (mostly in the Prem) and 80-plus international caps for Eire. Yes, he's undoubtedly got a lot to learn (who hasn't?), and i'm sure he'd recognise that, but he doesn't need to be given lessons in public. (We've all dropped round uns at work -- imagine what our reactions would be if the boss decided to tell the media about them!). Any sportsperson would tell you that one of the keys to high performance is confidence. This will have done nothing for Clare's confidence -- especially the gibberish bit about "sometimes when you are too positive as a player you miss how you can improve". Hope there's not a contract-related hidden agenda in Jos's extravagant public criticism -- and that it doesn't lead to us losing a promising talent. Looks to me like Jos (aged 54) also still has a lot to learn.
  5. I tried and miserably failed (I'm crap at this techie stuff, which is why i rarely post or comment) to start a new post yesterday called No "kidding", please! I was prompted by Sean Clare's recent performances v Derby and Villa, and the old adage that if they're good enough they're old enough. As a club and a nation, we should get away from "one size fits all" labelling of promising young uns as "academy kids" who it's risky to play as they might make mistakes. Of course, young players will make mistakes. But so do old uns. (Who was supposed to pick up Referee Terry for the first goal? Boyd -- who i thought had a good game -- should have been alive to blocking Hourihane for the third and should never have got skinned by Snotgrass in such a tight space leading up to the pen.) Klopp plays "kids" like Gomez and Alexander-Arnold in much bigger games than we're involved in. And sticks by them when they make costly mistakes (nowhere near as many major blunders as a seasoned international like Lovren) and doesn't highight their mistakes publicly. He generally leaves that counter-productive crap to mouthy Mourinho. I was also prompted to do a bit of googling malarkey to find out a bit more about Clare's background. For a start, he's now played 40-plus first team games (mostly League One); he played for five years at a top academy team (including players such as Gomez and Kasey Palmer) when Charlton were playing against Prem clubs before the academy system was restructured; left of his own accord to pursue his education (see interview at Gillingham below -- comes across as a pleasant, intelligent young man, rather than a cocky Billy Big Boots), before being picked up by the now-defunct Nike Academy, playing Barcelona u-19s home (scoring at Wembley) and away (hits the post with back-header and involved in setting up two goals) and at PSG, AC Milan, Prem club u-23s and first teams such as Walsall and Burton. Not a bad CV -- and probably explains why he didn't look fazed at all stepping out at Hillsborough against top Championship teams. I've also had the chance to visit the Nike set-up at St George's Park, and it was light years ahead of most league club academies in terms of facilities, coaching, sports science, diet, fitness and speed training, video analysis etc. Anyway, have a gander at some stuff my google trawl threw up, and let's hope the club treats every one of our excellent crop of young prospects on individual merit, not age, and helps give them the confidence and contracts that will see them flourish -- hopefully, in the blue and white stripes of Wednesday! https://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/ifollow/video-archive/?&player=Sean Clare
  6. Olibeak

    Sean Clare

    ĢSorry, Kivo, but it's nothing to do with injury. Clare apparently was due to be on the bench today, but was made to sit on the naughty step instead as he won't sign the crap one-year contract extension he's been offered. (The club seems to have more leaks at the moment than a colander -- a sure sign of discontent behind the scenes). The irony/hypocrisy/stupidity of the club's stance (or, more accurately, the clueless chairman's stance) in the current dire injury circumstances is that Thorniley is in the same contract situation -- but is presumably being played because we're so short of defenders. Or maybe Clare just isn't rated by the club? If so, why bring him back from a successful loan spell (where his value to the club would only increase with every game played, while being paid by the other club) and turn down transfer bids from Gillingham and a Championship club during the transfer window? It will be very interesting to see next week whether Clare gets the full Hirst treatment and is frozen out of the u23s as well. Wouldn't be surprised as the club (chairman) seems intent on vindictively blocking the progress of talented youngsters who refuse to be bullied into signing contract extensions that suit the club but not them. Meanwhile, the club can look forward to collecting a bit of loose change from an FA tribunal when promising young players (who, incidentally, are still under contract and I'm sure would love to be playing games) move on to clubs that really want them, rate them, value them, and are prepared to gamble that they will become excellent investments. This is such frustrating, short-sighted madness on the part of the club -- and is sure to impact on youth recruitment in the future.
  7. Olibeak

    SWFC Loan Watch Returns! (part one)

    I posted something along these lines a couple of weeks ago, based on reliable info I'd been given. If players who've had relatively successful loan spells at league clubs are only being offered one-year extensions at "development squad" pay rates, it doesn't exactly suggest that the club rates them very highly. And if we don't rate them, why not cash in on them, rather than "punish" them by hampering their development? Why wouldn't they look to move to a club that must rate them, and would pay at least twice what we are offering? Absolute no-brainer. Every one of us would do the same. As Ethel points out, the Thorniley situation could also apply to Clare. (I hear that Gillingham have already made one bid to sign him permanently, and that there are also a few Championship clubs keen on nicking him off us). My only hope is that a new manager and CEO will rapidly address the club's hopelessly myopic and bullying approach to the development of our young players. (Btw, I'm sure that Penney -- who is younger than Thorniley and Clare -- has just signed a one-year extension because, if he didn't, he wouldn't get the loan he desperately needs to progress his career.)
  8. Apologies. I should have made that clear. Yes, the issue of a transfer fee/compensation fee only kicks in if the players under 24 have been offered a contract and the offer has been lodged with the FA -- whether or not the player has signed it. The contract offer would only need to be marginally better than the existing one. And Thorniley and Clare will definitely not have been offered anything on the scale of Hirst-like hikes in pay. So here's the moral (immoral) issue: if CC rated the players' potential (hardly likely as he seems blissfully unaware of the quality of some of our young uns), they would certainly be offered much better and longer contracts (which they'd almost certainly snap up). If he doesn't rate them, get them out on loan as early as possible and playing as many first-team games as possible to push up their value when they get sold on. The "sign or no loan" threat seems mindless. How is a player's value going to increase if he's just running round Middlewood instead of playing games? (Certainly didn't work with the likes of McGugan.) Of course, they may be trying to tie them down for another year in case a new manager comes in with different attitudes to the development of young players!
  9. Sorry, but that's not how football finances work in the case of players under 24. Even if Thorniley and Clare aren't deemed good enough for our first team (No idea what evidence you base that on. How many times have you seen them play?), they can't leave for free when their contracts are up. A new club would have to pay an agreed transfer fee, or a fee would be settled by an FA tribunal. Either way, the club's financial interests are protected. And they're guaranteed to make a profit. Both of these players arrived for free (Thorniley released by Everton, Clare from Nike Academy), and particularly in the case of Clare, his wages for most of the time he's been here have been paid by loan clubs (Bury, Accy, Gills). But the most ludicrous aspect of all this (apart from sabotaging the development of our young lads) is that a player's value to us increases the more League games they play out on loan. Why can't the club understand this? Particularly DC. He must have business nouse as he's clearly made shedloads of dosh, but it seemingly deserts him in matters related to football.
  10. Well, if the info that's just been passed on to me is true, the way the club treats our promising young players really has become nothing short of scandalous. Try this for size: Jordan Thorniley (Accy) and Sean Clare (Gills) are both doing well and gaining valuable League experience (and added value to the club) out on loan. So how does the club reward them? I've been reliably informed that they've now been offered one-year extensions to their contracts (which were due to end this season), with a paltry "development squad" pay rise. And if they don't accept? They'll be refused permission to extend their loans and be brought back to S6 to kick their heels on the training -- without even u23s games -- until the end of the season. Sound familiar? It certainly would to young George (although at least he'll have the consolation of a couple of mates to have a kickaround with at Middlewood, because CC certainly won't be picking any of them). Seriously though, what is the club playing at ffs? In any other industry, this sort of mindlessly vindictive behaviour would be classed as restraint of trade, constructive dismal -- or even blackmail.
  11. PS: Cup draw couldn't have been worse for Clare. If Wednesday do allow him to extend his loan at Gillingham, they wouldn't allow him to play against us (even though he's not even rated highly enough to train with our first team, let alone play for it). And if we do bring him back, he'd be cup-tied anyway (not that he'd be picked). Like the rest of us, he's probably thinking: "Just one ball away from getting Chelsea!"
  12. My family connections on the Kent coast keep me up to date with the progress and versatility of Sean Clare, and it seems he's become a real fans' favourite. More or less summed up by this post on the Blues Rock Cafe fans' forum: Team Selection 26 November 2017 10:52Post ID: #69780 daveycrocket Established first-teamer Posts: 480 A recurring theme on this forum recently has been that Sean Clare is wasted at right back, and should be played further up the pitch. I think all of us agree with this as he is such a talented and creative footballer. That being the case, I can't understand why we play him out of position at right back, when Luke O'Neil, who is a natural right back is played out of position at left back. Surely playing O'Neil at right back, Ogilvie at left back, Ehmer alongside Zakuani in central defence (which is our best balanced pairing at the moment), would release Clare to express himself in midfield, which is what we all want to see. They're hoping they can keep him to the end of the season, which would be much better for his long-term development rather than coasting along in our U23s, but that's Wednesday's call. Can't see the point in him being brought back, though, as Carlos doesn't even have our promising youngsters training regularly with the first team (like, for example, Klopp and Pochetino do -- albeit with higher quality players), let alone offer a path to the first team. Can't remember where I saw it on OT, but someone referred to the fact that Southampton say the secret to their success in bringing through so many top-class youngsters is that they get them training regularly with the first teamers as early as possible. You don't need coaching badges or a PhD in rocket science to understand that that's a no-brainer. Particularly for technical, creative players such as Clare and Penney, it's so much easier playing with better players -- although a stint in lower-league hoofball will certainly teach them how to handle the game's physicality!
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