SWFC Loan Watch Returns! (part one)

[Guest Ash76]

Wow, i didn't think things could get any crazier on here.

 

If the shouts for Hirst weren't enough we now have people saying Penny is better than Pudil & Fox. 

 

 

[malek]

1 hour ago, scram said:

It's absurd to say Penney is better than Pudil or Fox

 

Penney may well have attributes and potential - but non-league is full of players that had those but couldn't transpose them to the big stage

 

If/when Penney does start to prove himself will be the time to make such ridiculous claims

 

Penney wont prove himself here, as he is not likely to get any chance to prove what he can do.

 

I'm not happy because couple of players I don't feel are good enough are blocking his route to the first team.

 

I believe I have somewhat of an eye to spot a talent, and if Penney proves not to be good enough I will accept that I don't know nothing about football.

 

So afraid that in the summer he will go somewhere else, and we will come to regret it.

[scram]

Again, its even absurd to suggest that time-served, proven players are "blocking" his path to the 1st team - that's like saying that every player in every team is blocking the pathway of an upcoming talent

 

I said it before but non-league is full of players who have the attributes but can't make it stick at the sharp end

 

I'm sure some don't realise just how far away from even regular league 2 football the 3rd tier of u23 football actually is - the majority of u23 players will not play regular professional football - the standard is really not that high

 

Football clubs don't exist to develop the next generation of players and not every young starlet is the next big thing

 

Penney may well go on the have a great career - but if he was a better option right now than our other players i'm sure he'd be playing

[TheBoyBeevers]

1 hour ago, scram said:

I'm sure some don't realise just how far away from even regular league 2 football the 3rd tier of u23 football actually is - the majority of u23 players will not play regular professional football - the standard is really not that high

 

And nothing should make this clearer for Wednesday fans than the fact Joao (when he’s probably only 50% interested at best) looks like Ronaldo whenever he plays in the U23’s. Looks 3x the player George Hirst does. 

 

The development games are not an audition for a player to play Championship first team football for SWFC. The only way any of these lads (by the time they get to 18-19 anyway) will forge a career in the game is through a loan spell, and the only real benefit of the development squad games is a chance for the 1st year pros to earn themselves a loan spell at League 1/2 level. Or in other words, the chance to avoid joining the scrap heap of ‘he had all the potential in the world’ players who are littered across the 5th/6th/7th tiers of English football. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by TheBoyBeevers

[casbahowl]

7 hours ago, malek said:

 

Penney wont prove himself here, as he is not likely to get any chance to prove what he can do.

 

I'm not happy because couple of players I don't feel are good enough are blocking his route to the first team.

 

I believe I have somewhat of an eye to spot a talent, and if Penney proves not to be good enough I will accept that I don't know nothing about football.

 

So afraid that in the summer he will go somewhere else, and we will come to regret it.

If you're not 'Happy' which one are you ........

'Dopey' ?

[Ethel The Tree]

6 hours ago, scram said:

I'm sure some don't realise just how far away from even regular league 2 football the 3rd tier of u23 football actually is - the majority of u23 players will not play regular professional football - the standard is really not that high

 

Sad but true

I doubt we'll ever see another bunch of youngsters progress together through the ranks and achieve their 1st team breakthroughs as teenagers like those from the Jack Charlton era (Smith, Shirtliff, Sterland, Taylor, Williamson, Pearson etc)

The pick of the current batch will inevitably have to 'serve time' out on loan - and that is probably where they'll be judged

 

Some will do well and perhaps achieve that elusive breakthrough with us - others are likely to move on and hopefully (for them) get to continue their development someplace else

But many, unfortunately, simply won't make it

 

To me, this demonstrates the folly of offering huge wages to an inexperienced teenager based purely on one successful season at youth level and a broad assessment of his current potential

 

 

[Ethel The Tree]

9 hours ago, malek said:

 

Penney wont prove himself here, as he is not likely to get any chance to prove what he can do.

 

I'm not happy because couple of players I don't feel are good enough are blocking his route to the first team.

 

I believe I have somewhat of an eye to spot a talent, and if Penney proves not to be good enough I will accept that I don't know nothing about football.

 

So afraid that in the summer he will go somewhere else, and we will come to regret it.

 

We don't know what will happen, malek

He may well get his chance, he may have to wait another three years for it to arrive - and I'm REALLY hoping we'll be an established PL outfit before then

 

He may have clocked up those 100 senior apps whilst on loan at various clubs - as well as a handful of England caps at U21 level

We just don't know

 

But I have an idea the first 'hurdle' will be getting him to agree a new deal before next summer

One that demonstrates our faith in his ability and his trust and loyalty to the club and staff that's helped bring him this far

 

But if he decides his future rests on whatever advice his agent has to offer - then I suspect it's anyone's guess

[TheBoyBeevers]

23 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said:

To me, this demonstrates the folly of offering huge wages to an inexperienced teenager based purely on one successful season at youth level and a broad assessment of his current potential

 

Absolutely.

 

he’s a kid who has had one great season in the junior leagues. The club would have to be utterly convinced he was destined for the stars to justify offering him a decent salary. 

 

Better off taking some cash and a fat sell on clause at tribunal next summer if we’re not convinced that what he is asking for reflects his potential value over the length of the contract he’d be signing. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by TheBoyBeevers

[Ethel The Tree]

13 minutes ago, TheBoyBeevers said:

Better off taking a couple of million and a fat sell on clause at tribunal next summer if we’re not convinced that what he is asking for reflects his potential value over the length of the contract he’d be signing.

 

If there is no agreement before Christmas I can see us trying to get the best possible deal done in January - as I'm not sure the tribunal does sell-on clauses

 

I'm still hoping common sense will prevail, but it looks like both sides have dug their heels in too deeply - pity really

 

George Hirst is an exciting prospect, but right now that's all he is

If his advisors think he's the best we have and therefore 'deserves' to be on higher wages than his peers (many of them 2-3yrs older) then first he needs to prove them right

Sign a deal, go out on loan and show everyone what he's capable of

Mr C won't take their word for it - he has the professional assessment of his own staff to guide him

[Ethel The Tree]

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/sport/match-preview-peterborough-v-gillingham-133616/

 

Gillingham's latest caretaker manager is promising to shake things up ahead of their visit to Peterbro

Sean Clare is on media duty though, so perhaps his place is secure at least

[Ethel The Tree]

Peterbro  0-1  Gillingham      (att: 5,257)

 

... and shake things up he did

The local media down there is fairly buzzing about the hard work and general quality of performance that saw Gillingham claim their first away win in the league

Sean Clare isn't singled out in particular but he did get to play the entire 90mins of this one ...at right back!

And as most of those reports suggest the home side were piling on the pressure in search of a late equalizer it's fair to say 'the boy done well' 

 

 

Accrington  1-0  Coventry       (att: 2,828)

 

Similarly, Jordan Thorniley played the whole 90mins of this one ...at left back!

Although I suspect, not for the first time during his loan spell there

He picked up a yellow card and also survived a late shout for a penalty, but the result makes it six wins from his eight games and moves Accy back above Coventry and into 4th place

 

At the other end of League2 Port Vale finally won their first game since August, 3-1 at home to in-form Cheltenham

I REALLY thought Jack Stobbs would've played some part in this, especially after his showing for their reserves in midweek, but alas - no

He didn't even make the bench

And given the result and performance it seems he'll need to work hard and remain patient a for while longer yet

 

 

Same as last week - Sky will provide the opportunity to keep tabs on our other 'loan-out'

Derby  v  Forest   (ko 1.15pm)

If anyone out there is planning on watching this one (and assuming Sam Winnall gets to play some part in it) then your general comments or even marks out of ten would be appreciated 

 

[malek]

On 14. 10. 2017. at 02:26, scram said:

Again, its even absurd to suggest that time-served, proven players are "blocking" his path to the 1st team - that's like saying that every player in every team is blocking the pathway of an upcoming talent

 

I said it before but non-league is full of players who have the attributes but can't make it stick at the sharp end

 

I'm sure some don't realise just how far away from even regular league 2 football the 3rd tier of u23 football actually is - the majority of u23 players will not play regular professional football - the standard is really not that high

 

Football clubs don't exist to develop the next generation of players and not every young starlet is the next big thing

 

Penney may well go on the have a great career - but if he was a better option right now than our other players i'm sure he'd be playing

 

Old mate. I've been watching football for 30 years, and in my time I've seen plenty of players that were deemed as special talents slip into obscurity, as well as those who were thought of as average make it. And yes, I can see what a poor level of quality development football is.

 

Still you can see what some players can, and what they can't do, how they react in certain situations, etc... 

 

Your point about players blocking route to first team football for these youngsters is a sound one, and it would be valid if we talked about some other club where chances are given upon deserving them, sadly I don't think that is the case right now

[Ethel The Tree]

5 hours ago, Ethel The Tree said:

Same as last week - Sky will provide the opportunity to keep tabs on our other 'loan-out'

Derby  v  Forest   (ko 1.15pm)

If anyone out there is planning on watching this one (and assuming Sam Winnall gets to play some part in it) then your general comments or even marks out of ten would be appreciated 

 

Ah ...

Nothing much to add really

Derby won 2-0 and Winnall stayed on the bench  

[Ethel The Tree]

Gillingham  1-1  Wigan    (att: 4,705)

 

Sean Clare is asked to demonstrate more versatility and play this one at right wing-back - and 'done' well again too

Notably, providing the pinpoint cross that enabled his side to take a 2nd half lead

Wigan arrived as league leaders, dominated the first half and probably deserved to share the points

But by all accounts their late equalizer was hard on Gillingham who continue to improve under their latest boss

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11085978/gillingham-1-1-wigan

 

 

Stevenage  3-2  Accrington     (att: 1,788)

 

If Gillingham's night ended in disappointment then Accrington's must have felt a whole lot worse

Leading for more than an hour of the game, 1-0 and then 2-1, they also conceded a late equalizer before losing it in the 89th minute

The win would/should have moved them back into the top three, but that's football

Jordan Thorniley played left back again but was subbed off (91mins) as Accy went desperately in search of an equalizer of their own

 

 

Port Vale continued their revival with a 3-0 win away at Morecambe

Unfortunately, Jack Stobbs remains out of the loop

[Ethel The Tree]

https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2017/october/report-vale-reserves-2-0-doncaster-reserves/

 

Is this above and beyond the call of duty, or what?

Following Port Vale reserves just to let you folks know how Jack Stobbs is doing?

 

Anyhow, he played another blinder by all accounts ...

Scored one and claimed an assist for the other in their 2-0 home win over Donny

 

Will it be enough to earn him a recall as the 1st team travel down to Exeter tomorrow?

Probably not  

[torryowl]

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 08:44, Ethel The Tree said:

 

Sad but true

I doubt we'll ever see another bunch of youngsters progress together through the ranks and achieve their 1st team breakthroughs as teenagers like those from the Jack Charlton era (Smith, Shirtliff, Sterland, Taylor, Williamson, Pearson etc)

The pick of the current batch will inevitably have to 'serve time' out on loan - and that is probably where they'll be judged

 

Some will do well and perhaps achieve that elusive breakthrough with us - others are likely to move on and hopefully (for them) get to continue their development someplace else

But many, unfortunately, simply won't make it

 

To me, this demonstrates the folly of offering huge wages to an inexperienced teenager based purely on one successful season at youth level and a broad assessment of his current potential

 

 

those in the 70s and before all came thru together from kids football with middlewood owls ,then the intermediate league and finally the central league where they were playing against the likes of experienced reserve sides of man utd, Liverpool etc etc and learned there trade  with the help of a few old salts who were out of favour from our 1st team ....I know why they did away with the central league but i'll never think it was right .it was a system that worked for 80 odd years .

[torryowl]

37 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said:

https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2017/october/report-vale-reserves-2-0-doncaster-reserves/

 

Is this above and beyond the call of duty, or what?

Following Port Vale reserves just to let you folks know how Jack Stobbs is doing?

 

Anyhow, he played another blinder by all accounts ...

Scored one and claimed an assist for the other in their 2-0 home win over Donny

 

Will it be enough to earn him a recall as the 1st team travel down to Exeter tomorrow?

Probably not  

someone( may have been you) said  that vale have more than the quota of loan players than they are allowed to play at one time .....no matter how well he plays in the stiffs if there's 5 playing well in the 1st team then he's got no chance really as he .......

[Ethel The Tree]

39 minutes ago, torryowl said:

someone( may have been you) said  that vale have more than the quota of loan players than they are allowed to play at one time .....no matter how well he plays in the stiffs if there's 5 playing well in the 1st team then he's got no chance really as he .......

 

... they also (apparently) have thirty-three players in their 1st team squad

Which sounds excessive for any side, never mind one in League2

A quick calculation tells me 15 of those players are sure to miss out every matchday, and right now Jack is one of 'em

 

Aspin & Rudge were there watching yesterday's game, so the quality of his performances won't go unnoticed

He might well have trouble breaking into a winning team, but he won't be harming his chances either

[Ethel The Tree]

Gillingham  1-2  Northampton       (att: 4,640)

 

I was all ready to bill this one as Sean Clare v Lewis McGugan - except Lewis didn't make the matchday squad!

Sean did, though. At right wing-back again in an unchanged line-up

Gills played well enough by all accounts but two long-range strikes saw the visitors win their first game in nine

The result also sees Sean's side drop below them in the table to third bottom

 

 

Crewe  0-2  Accrington      (att: 3,849)

 

Two early goals (and a late sending-off for the home side) led to a relatively comfortable win and another 3pts that ease Accy back into the top three

Jordan Thorniley played the whole game again and seems to be establishing himself quite nicely there

 

 

Exeter  0-1  Port Vale      (att: 4,258)

 

No, Jack Stobbs didn't get a game - but he WAS on the bench

So that's progress, in't it?

Maybe those eye-catching performances for the reserves are finally starting to pay off?

This was Vale's third straight win and continues their slow but steady climb towards mid-table

[Owlsman82]

4 minutes ago, Ethel The Tree said:

Gillingham  1-2  Northampton       (att: 4,640)

 

I was all ready to bill this one as Sean Clare v Lewis McGugan - except Lewis didn't make the matchday squad!

Sean did, though. At right wing-back again in an unchanged line-up

Gills played well enough by all accounts but two long-range strikes saw the visitors win their first game in nine

The result also sees Sean's side drop below them in the table to third bottom

 

 

Crewe  0-2  Accrington      (att: 3,849)

 

Two early goals (and a late sending-off for the home side) led to a relatively comfortable win and another 3pts that ease Accy back into the top three

Jordan Thorniley played the whole game again and seems to be establishing himself quite nicely there

 

 

Exeter  0-1  Port Vale      (att: 4,258)

 

No, Jack Stobbs didn't get a game - but he WAS on the bench

So that's progress, in't it?

Maybe those eye-catching performances for the reserves are finally starting to pay off?

This was Vale's third straight win and continues their slow but steady climb towards mid-table

Thanks for doing these, it’s great to see how the young lads are doing. I rate clare the most out of these so it’s good to see he’s playing every game there. Quite an athletic player isn’t he so interesting to see there trying him at wing back, although I definitely saw him as more of a number 10 or box to box midfielder.