outlaw pete Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, scram said: Firstly - i've seen him play several times and not only do i like him as a player but i've never heard a respected coach say anything other than positive things about him However... Scoring goals in 3rd tier academy football (and 2nd tier international football) is no barometer of whether somebody will be a prolific player in the league - at any level So... we either take the chance that he is and throw him in our squad at the expense of PROVEN strikers at this level - or the prudent thing to do (imo) would be to try to get him out on loan at the best level we can and see how he fares in the cut throat world of the pro game First i'd sit him down with a career development plan (i'm assuming we have done this?) and plot out a pathway to the first team as long as certain milestones are achieved along the way. This would likely be a minimum 2 year journey but there would be a logical progressive objective plan with targets and incentives. I'd also expect him to sign a deal that would be loaded with incentives for performance rather than just a big fat contract regardless of how he performs - this would be my basic plan for any development player. If he won't sign then we have to think about what we should do - my plan would be early release with a lesser up-front fee but loaded with extra add-ons and higher sell-on clause. It's not ideal but the clock is ticking on his contract with us and we have to get the best we can from it should we have to face up to releasing him I agree with a lot of what you say and I too have seen the development squad play live last season. Where I have to disagree with you is your support for our so called PROVEN strikers. Last season this was the scoring record of these PROVEN STRIKERS. Jordan Rhodes scored 3 goals in 16/17 Stephen Fletcher scored 9 goals in 16/17 Atdhe Nuhiu scored zero goals in 16/17 Gary Hooper scored 6 goals in 16/17 Sam Winnall scored 3 goals in 16/17 for Wednesday Fernando Forestieri scored 12 goals in 16/17 Lets hope our PROVEN STRIKERS fare a lot better this season. George Hirst by the way scored more goals than all 6 of our proven strikers added together. I'm not advocating putting him in the starting eleven but surely he deserves a place on the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, outlaw pete said: I agree with a lot of what you say and I too have seen the development squad play live last season. Where I have to disagree with you is your support for our so called PROVEN strikers. Last season this was the scoring record of these PROVEN STRIKERS. Jordan Rhodes scored 3 goals in 16/17 Stephen Fletcher scored 9 goals in 16/17 Atdhe Nuhiu scored zero goals in 16/17 Gary Hooper scored 6 goals in 16/17 Sam Winnall scored 3 goals in 16/17 for Wednesday Fernando Forestieri scored 12 goals in 16/17 Lets hope our PROVEN STRIKERS fare a lot better this season. George Hirst by the way scored more goals than all 6 of our proven strikers added together. I'm not advocating putting him in the starting eleven but surely he deserves a place on the bench? Proven experience is the way I read it . Experience , some at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Compare those stats to Hirst who has never scored a single Professional goal. Men against boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 He's progressing in the right way....the England coaching staff are pleased with his progress. The club seem to know what they are doing so why on earth do you not think that they haven't got a planned career strategy...Oh sorry I know Carlos out.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, BenOwl1867 said: Send him out to a side that like to play attacking football. Don't send him anywhere if they play hoofball put in a clause where he has to play X mins per game. Majority of big team put this in if he doesn't get the playing time re-call let him carry on scoring for fun in the youth level. Do agree though he needs competitive football not youth football He is now too old for the U18 side so will only be playing U23 football for us if he doesn't go out on loan. No chance of 40 goals this season but even last season he was in and out of the U23 side whilst also playing for the U18. Still very young. If he goes on loan to the National League it can still be short term so perhaps even that would be better than a full season in U23's. Edited August 11, 2017 by Etchesketch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenOwl1867 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 24 minutes ago, Etchesketch said: He is now too old for the U18 side so will only be playing U23 football for us if he doesn't go out on loan. No chance of 40 goals this season but even last season he was in and out of the U23 side whilst also playing for the U18. Still very young. If he goes on loan to the National League it can still be short term so perhaps even that would be better than a full season in U23's. True what ever happened to the very short loan spells called work experience? We used to loan a few youngsters out via that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamAP22D Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 17 hours ago, outlaw pete said: I agree with a lot of what you say and I too have seen the development squad play live last season. Where I have to disagree with you is your support for our so called PROVEN strikers. Last season this was the scoring record of these PROVEN STRIKERS. Jordan Rhodes scored 3 goals in 16/17 Stephen Fletcher scored 9 goals in 16/17 Atdhe Nuhiu scored zero goals in 16/17 Gary Hooper scored 6 goals in 16/17 Sam Winnall scored 3 goals in 16/17 for Wednesday Fernando Forestieri scored 12 goals in 16/17 Lets hope our PROVEN STRIKERS fare a lot better this season. George Hirst by the way scored more goals than all 6 of our proven strikers added together. I'm not advocating putting him in the starting eleven but surely he deserves a place on the bench? If they were missing loads of chances maybe. but they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 You can still do the youth loans but it has to be outside the League. They can be for a month and you can still play for your Clubs U23 team at the same time. We never send players out even to local non league clubs. Our neighbours across the Citysend players out to non league constantly. They have players who have been on loan three or four times each last season. Rotherham have loaned two young players out for a month each these past few days. One to Boston United and another to Frickley. We should be doing the same. They would be playing against men at least. 6.6.5 Youth Loan Transfers [Youth Loan Transfers apply to:- • Scholars in their second or third (if that option is exercised) year of their Scholarship agreement, or • Contract Players aged 20 or under on 1 July immediately preceding the Playing Season in question. Where the Rules of the relevant League permit, unlimited Youth Loan Transfers shall be allowed to or from Clubs in membership of the National League (National Division only), the Premier League and the Football League. Players may also be sent on Youth Loan to Leagues at Steps 1 to 4 of the National League System. At National League National Division (Step 1 of the National League System) Youth Loan Transfers are permitted during the Transfer Windows and during a closed period subject to the following provisions. A Youth Loan cannot be registered:- (a) Seven days after the closure of a Transfer Window (b) In the first half of the Playing Season, after 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in November and (c) In the second half of the Playing Season, after 5.00pm on the fourth Thursday in March. At National League North and South (Step 2 of the National League System) and at Steps 3 and 4 of the National League System, Youth Loans are permitted at any time during the Registration Period. It shall be a condition of any Youth Loan involving a Scholar or a Contract Player to whom Football League Youth Rules apply that for the duration of the period of the Youth Loan the Player continues to fully comply with the programme of education in place for that Player. A Player registered on a Youth Loan may, provided it is agreed between the two clubs and the Player, continue to train with and/or play for his loaning Club (or club) in any match other than matches played as part of the Premier League Competition, Football League Competition, Football League Cup, FA Cup or Football League Trophy (i.e. First Team matches.) Participation by the Player in First Team matches for the borrowing Club shall take precedence. Any days on which the Player participates in a Reserve Team match and/or attends any training sessions for the loaning Club (or club) shall still count towards the period of the Youth Loan. The minimum period of a Youth Loan shall be 28 days, thereafter a break clause may be included. Youth Loans cannot extend beyond the date of the Player’s 21st birthday and/or the contract period with the parent club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 9 hours ago, outlaw pete said: I agree with a lot of what you say and I too have seen the development squad play live last season. Where I have to disagree with you is your support for our so called PROVEN strikers. Last season this was the scoring record of these PROVEN STRIKERS. Jordan Rhodes scored 3 goals in 16/17 Stephen Fletcher scored 9 goals in 16/17 Atdhe Nuhiu scored zero goals in 16/17 Gary Hooper scored 6 goals in 16/17 Sam Winnall scored 3 goals in 16/17 for Wednesday Fernando Forestieri scored 12 goals in 16/17 Lets hope our PROVEN STRIKERS fare a lot better this season. George Hirst by the way scored more goals than all 6 of our proven strikers added together. I'm not advocating putting him in the starting eleven but surely he deserves a place on the bench? if we had a regular pair of strikers upfront and they scored 16 goals each then that wouldn't be a bad return ....there's nothing wrong with our strikers the problem (if we have one) lies elsewhere ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 17 hours ago, Owl999 said: Chansiri wants 100 percent of the wages paid by the loaning club, a lot of clubs can't afford or don't want to do that which means that nobody is getting the experience of a loan spell . dielna,lachman,penney,sougou,joao,clare,keen,melo,all got loaned out last season so i'd imagine that's not true . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, torryowl said: dielna,lachman,penney,sougou,joao,clare,keen,melo,all got loaned out last season so i'd imagine that's not true . I think he was talking about the young players. Only Clare and Penney went out on oan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Etchesketch said: I think he was talking about the young players. Only Clare and Penney went out on oan I realised that but I cant believe chansiri made the clubs pay 100% of the players wages and if he didn't then why would he for youngsters who lets be fair will be on a pittance and hardly register on the richter scale of our wage bill .....it's daft to say we don't loan out young players when those two going out on loan along with dawson prove that we do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etchesketch Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, torryowl said: I realised that but I cant believe chansiri made the clubs pay 100% of the players wages and if he didn't then why would he for youngsters who lets be fair will be on a pittance and hardly register on the richter scale of our wage bill .....it's daft to say we don't loan out young players when those two going out on loan along with dawson prove that we do . We barely do it though when young players should be continually on loan. Jack Stobbs is 20 and never been on loan at all. If he had he might be pushing for a first team place. Like I've said Rotherham and Sheff Utd are continually loaning out youngsters even if it is just to local non league sides for a month. We should be doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauchief Owl Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 George is contracted to Wednesday until 2018. If he goes on loan for a season we may never see him again in Wednesday colours. That would be a real shame. We really need to get his contract extended and then send him out on loan, initially for six months IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl999 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, torryowl said: dielna,lachman,penney,sougou,joao,clare,keen,melo,all got loaned out last season so i'd imagine that's not true . If their wages were covered then are allowed to go on loan, so it is true, from a very reliable source , Lachman, Sougou and Dielna all went abroad to clubs with money . Edited August 11, 2017 by Owl999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawowl Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Apparently in the stands tonight at the New York Stadium watching Rotherham v Man City u21s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0114 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Really hope he doesn't go Rotherham. They've signed a lot of strikers this summer like Ball, Proctor and that Moore. Can't see him getting too much game time. Hope I'm wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 He was also at the preseason friendly away at Gainsborough With his Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Wouldn't read too much into that, might know some of the City U 21 lads I heard Walsall were in for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Real Madrid played last night...George and his Dad watched it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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