Total write off

[Guest Deleted member]

29 minutes ago, modboy said:

but didn't make Wembley so depends how you measure it

Financially we are much worse off

 

why are we?

 

[TrickyTrev]

10 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

That's what everyone said last season. This year was going to be the toughest ever etc etc.

 

Personally next season I don't see any teams who we need to fear in terms of going for the autos. I don't see anyone being as strong as Newcastle or Brighton.

My main concern about next season is the money from the new tv deal being dished out to Premier League clubs.

 

Its the first year sides coming down get this and will provide Sunderland with £100m for finishing bottom of the Premier League and then give them parachute payments on top of that. That's an advantage Newcastle and the other relegated sides last season didn't have.

 

Im not saying it's impossible to compete, and it's always going to be difficult, I'm just saying that I think it'll be a lot harder next season and so therefore I see this season as a huge missed opportunity, I think that's fair enough.

[TrickyTrev]

1 minute ago, ramone said:

Not getting upset. Just sick of seeing the arrogance of some people that are saying 'oh it was only Huddersfield and Reading', we should have walked it.

 

Its not the case at all. 

I'm yet to see a single post that says we should have walked it on Wednesday night.

[Dick_Turpin]

6 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said:

I can see that you're getting a bit upset by some of the posts on here judging by the replies you're making, I would however advise you not to take posts that are critical of the club and the manager so personally.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, mine is that when you look at the playing squads at Reading, Huddersfield and Wednesday, I happen to think we have the better players. A view also shared by many others as well as the likes of Keith Andrews and Andy Hinchcliffe.

 

It's not "absolute rubbish" as you have put it, nor do I base my opinion on how these clubs have done in the past as you have claimed. It's based purely on the expenditure spent by the 3 sides compared with each other as well as the players at each club and their track records and level of performance at this level. 

 

I stand by my assumption that the playoffs were more difficult last season and will be more difficult next, no need to get so upset about it.

 

I think this is true - Brighton and Hull were better sides than Huddersfield and Reading so our path to the PL was harder last year. It is of course opinion. Next year may be similar or much worse - we'll find out if we get there. 

[pat blondeau]

4 minutes ago, ramone said:

Not getting upset. Just sick of seeing the arrogance of some people that are saying 'oh it was only Huddersfield and Reading', we should have walked it.

 

Its not the case at all. 

 

I don't think it's arrogant to say I'd have expected more than 3 shots on target in 210 minutes against Huddersfield 

[ramone]

Just now, TrickyTrev said:

I'm yet to see a single post that says we should have walked it on Wednesday night.

You know what i mean... 

 

Losing hasn't appeared to be an option for some though. This is because they think its 'only Huddersfield and Reading'. Teams that, correct me if i'm wrong' were ahead of us for the entire league campaign. But this was our 'best chance of promotion'. Why? Because it cant the 2 teams performance over the season. Its can only because of where both teams finished last season. The fact they were the 3rd and 4th (i'm classing Hudds as the 3rd best, as they were all season) best teams this season seems to be paled into insignificance. 

[ramone]

Just now, nilsson said:

 

I don't think it's arrogant to say I'd have expected more than 3 shots on target in 210 minutes against Huddersfield 

The game played out as the game played out. 

 

We had it won and let our concentration slip for a second. Its football. It happens. 

[NorthernOwl]

5 minutes ago, TrickyTrev said:

My main concern about next season is the money from the new tv deal being dished out to Premier League clubs.

 

Its the first year sides coming down get this and will provide Sunderland with £100m for finishing bottom of the Premier League and then give them parachute payments on top of that. That's an advantage Newcastle and the other relegated sides last season didn't have.

 

Im not saying it's impossible to compete, and it's always going to be difficult, I'm just saying that I think it'll be a lot harder next season and so therefore I see this season as a huge missed opportunity, I think that's fair enough.

 

I certainly agree that its a missed opportunity. I just don't see any of the relegated teams being as strong as Newcastle or Brighton. Hull and Boro will probably do ok  but I doubt they will be anything special. And I can easily see Sunderland doing a Villa.

[Guest Deleted member]

2 minutes ago, nilsson said:

 

I don't think it's arrogant to say I'd have expected more than 3 shots on target in 210 minutes against Huddersfield 

Huddersfield only had 5

[kingsidney]

9 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

why are we?

 

Cos we spent 20 million quid to put out 10 out of 11 players we played in last seasons play off fi al. 

[ChinaOwl]

1 minute ago, ramone said:

The game played out as the game played out. 

 

We had it won and let our concentration slip for a second. Its football. It happens. 

 

This is why I would prefer our plethora of talented forwards to kill games off from time to time instead of sitting back on 1-0 scorelines. The difference between winning, drawing or losing the game is finite. If the opposition hoof the ball into the penalty area, a goal scoring opportunity can come down to a simple ricochet or bounce of the ball. Barnsley away was a casing point. Then everyone just looks at each other wondering what could have been. Over a course of a season, such incidents can be critical especially if chasing promotion.

[Flat Owl]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

 

 

Bannan has manfully played as a one-man central midfield with Hutch playing 20 yards too deep.

 

 

 

 

My view too HO.

 

...and often brings the ball out from the edge our box to distribute. For all their defensive qualities Lees and Loovens are extremely reluctant and uncomfortable with the ball outside our defensive 3rd.  Sasso is better but not as good defensively.

Any new CB needs to be confident bringing the ball out to push us up the pitch.

[mcmigo]

@Grandad the comfort to be taken from the situation is that, ultimately, football is at its most enjoyable when you win.  It doesn't really matter against who.  We will win a lot more games next season than we lose.  The opposite would be true had we gone up.  I cant imagine the fans of any of those teams in the area where we would finish ie bottom 10  are especially happy with their seasons.

 

Essentially I am saying the only great thing about promotion for a club like ours  is the promotion itself, not the season that follows in the top flight.

[TrickyTrev]

3 minutes ago, ramone said:

You know what i mean... 

 

Losing hasn't appeared to be an option for some though. This is because they think its 'only Huddersfield and Reading'. Teams that, correct me if i'm wrong' were ahead of us for the entire league campaign. But this was our 'best chance of promotion'. Why? Because it cant the 2 teams performance over the season. Its can only because of where both teams finished last season. The fact they were the 3rd and 4th (i'm classing Hudds as the 3rd best, as they were all season) best teams this season seems to be paled into insignificance. 

I've already explained in my previous post why I think it was the best chance we're likely to have of getting promoted and it wasn't any of the above.

 

If you go back and re-read what I've written you'll see I have based my belief on the expenditure of the playoff teams in comparison to each other, the track record of the players in each squad in comparison to each other, I have compared our opponents in the playoffs this season with our opponents in the playoffs last season AND I have voiced my concerns about how the new Sky TV deal and the money it provides to the sides coming down and how that will affect the fight for promotion next season.

 

There's no exact science to it but there is a little more to it than "oh it's just little old Huddersfield" as you put it.

[ramone]

Just now, ChinaOwl said:

 

This is why I would prefer our plethora of talented forwards to kill games off from time to time instead of sitting back on 1-0 scorelines. The difference between winning, drawing or losing the game is finite. If the opposition hoof the ball into the penalty area, a goal scoring opportunity can come down to a simple ricochet or bounce of the ball. Barnsley away was a casing point. Then everyone just looks at each other wondering what could have been. Over a course of a season, such incidents can be critical especially if chasing promotion.

So, the scenario is as follows:

 

We're 1-0 up coming into the last 1/8 of a 2 legged play off semi. We've not given them a sniff for 160 minutes of football. We look solid and have the game under control. You then see carlos gesture an 'unleash the fury on them' motion to the team. We then lose the game 2-1. How would that have gone down? Like a sh*t sandwich thats how. You're damned if you and damned if you dont. I dont blame him for trying to see it out. I'd have done the same. 

[ChinaOwl]

1 minute ago, ramone said:

So, the scenario is as follows:

 

We're 1-0 up coming into the last 1/8 of a 2 legged play off semi. We've not given them a sniff for 160 minutes of football. We look solid and have the game under control. You then see carlos gesture an 'unleash the fury on them' motion to the team. We then lose the game 2-1. How would that have gone down? Like a sh*t sandwich thats how. You're damned if you and damned if you dont. I dont blame him for trying to see it out. I'd have done the same. 

 

Unleash the fury is a bit unfair and not what I mean. Just accepting a 1-0 lead and sitting back trying to play time out is not always the best way either. Sometimes the best way to relieve pressure is to play further up the pitch and at least try to score when opportunities present themselves.

[Guest Deleted member]

4 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

@Grandad the comfort to be taken from the situation is that, ultimately, football is at its most enjoyable when you win.  It doesn't really matter against who.  We will win a lot more games next season than we lose.  The opposite would be true had we gone up.  I cant imagine the fans of any of those teams in the area where we would finish ie bottom 10  are especially happy with their seasons.

 

Essentially I am saying the only great thing about promotion for a club like ours  is the promotion itself, not the season that follows in the top flight.

 

Agreed - entirely. I'm already looking forward to next season with anticipation - rather than dreading what might await us each week.

[HarryJ]

Being relatively new to contributing to Owlstalk although reading for some time I think I will be at risk of upsetting some on here and several negs. Like many, going through the deflation and feeling a good promotion opportunity has been missed but exactly the same was said after Wembley last year.

However, for those criticising CC’s tactics and stubbornness I find it a little annoying. This season I think the only consistent part of the team is having a back 4 but this is very fluid with the attacking full backs and we have even had a back 3 at times but this is restricted when Hutchinson isn’t available. Perhaps Sasso could fill this role when Sam is injured?

For the rest we have played 1, 2 and 3 up front at times. The midfield has been flexible with 2 widish players or 3 fluid central and one wide to even a diamond formation, often changing during the same game so I don’t see a great deal of stubbornness and rigidly sticking to a formation.

I think the starting formation has often been dictated by who is available and the opposition we have been playing.

My feeling is that we lack pace up front to worry defences which results in them pushing further up and condensing midfield so there is less room for the likes of Bannan et al to create.

Strengthening is needed in the midfield backbone to be able to push the opposition back which we haven’t succeeded in doing for long periods like we did last year, more pace in the central defence and up front.

I think CC learned a lot last season in how the likes of Middlesbrough, Burnley, Hull and Brighton played and tried to adapt his style to reflect what is seen to be a successful formula when there isn’t the budget that the parachute payments bring.

I feel that CC is the best manager this club has had for many years and is innovative plus having the respect of the players and others at the club. I for one will be very sad to see him go if he does. I think he will have learnt more this year to add to the mix and will be better next season but will adapt his style to create a formula to get out of this very competitive league although it may, by necessity, lack the flair of last season. However, he has been employed to get promotion not play the best football in the division. Rarely will the two go together.

My concern is that he will think another Championship season will be too demanding on him personally and will prefer to take up other opportunities.

[Bluesteel]

Carlos has a tentative style, one which looks to probe for opportunities and recycle the ball if they don't present themselves. He doesn't like to simply run with it and see what happens, as we may lose the ball. 

 

I can see why he tries to do what he does because in theory if you control the ball and move it forward at your pace, if you have top strikers they should make the most of the chances. But this is becoming increasingly reliant on a link player between midfield and attack, AKA Hooper. It almost seems like our entire approach boils down to this link. If it's not there we need to go long.

 

Carlos changed his approach last season and ideally I would like him to stay albeit with another change to favour wingers as we have come up short in key games consistently by being too tentative. 

 

If he isn't willing to do that or if he feels the appetite isn't there from him or the team for a third attempt then perhaps we need a change. It's a really difficult one to call.

[pat blondeau]

7 minutes ago, ramone said:

The game played out as the game played out. 

 

We had it won and let our concentration slip for a second. Its football. It happens. 

 

The game played out as the game played out because we offered zero attacking threat away and very little at home.

 

You can't make excuses for the performances against Hull last year and Huddersfield this time.