Guest pops55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jones has ruined Megson's good work and momentum, however I agree with DJmortimer that I have no faith in another manager being able to clean up DJ's bloated mess of a squad. May as well just wait and see if there was any method to madness now... Just give them time to gel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jones has ruined Megson's good work and momentum, however I agree with DJmortimer that I have no faith in another manager being able to clean up DJ's bloated mess of a squad. May as well just wait and see if there was any method to madness now... Megson's momentum????? We'd won 3 in the previous 11? The momentum came after. Where were the 'ruined Megson's momentum' comments in April, May??? I just don't understand this at all - OK, Jones isn't having a good time now - but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hack-Abusi Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 the next 2 games against Peterborough and Ipswich are flipping monumental - they will be the basis for this season if we win both games, we'll push on if we dont, then i reckon it will be a relegation scrap, if not relegated SOONER rather then LATER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincowl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Megson's momentum????? We'd won 3 in the previous 11? The momentum came after. Where were the 'ruined Megson's momentum' comments in April, May??? I just don't understand this at all - OK, Jones isn't having a good time now - but come on. Momentum = the huge feelgood factor from the Sheffield derby AND the signing of Michail Antonio. Jones only needed to ride the crest of that wave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senwar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Momentum = the huge feelgood factor from the Sheffield derby AND the signing of Michail Antonio. Jones only needed to ride the crest of that wave... Oh come on. You seriously can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Here's a classic example when stats don't tell the real story - DJ's win %tage as our manager is, on the face of it, a very impressive 50%. unfortunately i haven't got the mathematical skills to work out the specific %tage of last season to this but I bet it would make incredulous reading Edited October 25, 2012 by Almat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Here's a classic example when stats don't tell the real story - DJ's win %tage as our manager is, on the face of it, a very impressive 50%. unfortunately i haven't got the mathematical skills to work out the specific %tage of last season to this but I bet it would make incredulous reading Win stats for last season are history. We need results now. Improved performances resulting in loses and the odd draw are no good. I like DJ, but he has no excuses, the players are his and they are not producing the goods. Next couple of games are MASSIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalowlisback Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 To be fair, we didn't know that MM had DJ already lined up before he sacked GM. With a bit of luck he already has somebody lined up now. If it was down to me (which it is not) the shortlist would consist of Curbishley, McCarthy and Di Canio. I failed to mention Ian Holloway who I would love as manager, but considering his history with MM, I would expect it to be a non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Win stats for last season are history. We need results now. Improved performances resulting in loses and the odd draw are no good. I like DJ, but he has no excuses, the players are his and they are not producing the goods. Next couple of games are MASSIVE. That was sort of the point of my post. What I am saying is if DJ gets the bullet now his win %tage would look really good if just looking at the bare figures, Stats, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 hello Baggiehy Hello mate i dont think he should be sacked. a good manager doesnt become a sh!t manager overnight, and continuity breeds success, eventually. I just dont see what difference its going to make to us bringing in a new manager, who will have the same set of players to work with that Jones has. Im concerned at the results and im really worrying about relegation. But im not convinced the answer lies in changing the manager. I didnt think it was the answer when we got rid of Laws or Sturrock either, not long term anyway. Define "Good" because I remember him at Wo1ve5 and he certainly wasn't "Good". Everything we are today can be traced back to Megson & Jones. Everything we are today should have been the doghead's legacy. Jones had 10pts lead over us that's a four game spread. This was for Premiership Football, The team celebration dinner had already been booked along with a team holiday to the Caribbean. Jones took 10pts from the last 27pts. we took 26pts from the last 30pts. It turned them into a laughing stock. Thats why Jones is the best manager we never had. Megson is idolised at ours for what he did and rightly so. But Jones choked, it was his to lose, and he did. we couldn't of done it without him messing up Hence the name Heimlich. He spent an awful lot of money as well. So much so Hayward had to sell 4 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 What a stupid thing to say, of course the previous 10 games impact the next two. If he wins both, he stays in his job. If he loses them, then he goes. The previous ten games are thus rendered inconsequential in that context. And I didn't say Jones or any manager has control over anything But those issuing ultimatums are doing exactly that. The attitude is 'well if you want to keep your job you'd better win then'. But NO manager at NO club is capable of guaranteeing anything like that. In an extreme case, it could be a goalkeeping howler, a refereeing mistake or utter fluke that decides his fate. And you mentioned my method is an enormous mistake either way ... the flip side would say that putting faith in a manager to get us out of this mess (which he got us into in the first place), to then not achieving this, to then sack him when it's too late and we're relegated. But as long as we gave him enough chance to turn it around and we weren't being too hysterical, then we can all sleep easy at night & know we tried to do the right thing. That's true of course. But by the nature of the beast you can't precisely measure whether you sacked a manager too early as there would be no results against which to compare the change. There's examples for both sides, mine would be Danny Wilson (& ALMOST Paul Jewell), it doesn't mean that either of us are categorically wrong or right. Oh and in answer to your question (assuming it wasn't rhetorical), if you're asking me to make a decision know on whether to sack him or not .... then I would ! People defensively misinterpret my attitude sometimes. Obviously there can be no absolute wrong or right. I'd just like posters to justify their conclusions with a bit more than a shrug, a spurious comparison to an irrelevant situation or an unrealistic demand that is so open to chance. Waiting for the next two results is just too random for such a major decision in my opinion and pays no attention to other aspects of the manager's role (although I appreciate that match results are the single most important element of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Oh come on. You seriously can't believe that. Megson falls out with people, Its his character, I think it had had got poisonous between Mandaric and him. When he went it gave the club a lift in morale It was his time to go but was Dave Jones the man to take you forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 DJM. I agree with 90% of your comments overall, pretty good eh. However, when you state, "Waiting for the next two results is just too random for such a major decision ..... " I cannot agree. Taken as said ok ,but, there has to come a time when decisions are made on recent results and league position. If DJ gets the sack after the next two games it will be because of those results and the preceding dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euse Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If he wins both, he stays in his job. If he loses them, then he goes. The previous ten games are thus rendered inconsequential in that context. But it's BECAUSE of the previous 10 games that the next two games are deemed 'make or break' by many - including me. But those issuing ultimatums are doing exactly that. The attitude is 'well if you want to keep your job you'd better win then'. But NO manager at NO club is capable of guaranteeing anything like that. In an extreme case, it could be a goalkeeping howler, a refereeing mistake or utter fluke that decides his fate. People say that at the end of a season their team would've stayed up if it wasn't for such things, like 'a goalkeeping howler' or 'a refereeing mistake'. EVERY team has these and they forget / ignore the other matches where they're been utter rubbish - which I think is relevant to us. That's true of course. But by the nature of the beast you can't precisely measure whether you sacked a manager too early as there would be no results against which to compare the change. Well no. Like you said, nature of the beast. People defensively misinterpret my attitude sometimes. Obviously there can be no absolute wrong or right. I'd just like posters to justify their conclusions with a bit more than a shrug, a spurious comparison to an irrelevant situation or an unrealistic demand that is so open to chance. Waiting for the next two results is just too random for such a major decision in my opinion and pays no attention to other aspects of the manager's role (although I appreciate that match results are the single most important element of course). I completely agree. Hence when you shrugged off my comments & (logical) reasoning, I felt you needed challenging on your views / comments and arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 60's owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 firstly hi from a newbie to this forum. i've read the posts in this thread and i agree with some , don't with others but that said after 40 odd years following our beloved owls , home and away, there's not a lot happening with our club now i ( and many like me) that haven't seen before. yes currently it's embarrassing being an owl at the minute but theres no easy fix and i don't really think a manager change now would make much difference, who ever came in would still only have the same player base to choose from. DL just has to revert to a more normal team formation , i.e. the standard 4-4-2, to get us some points on the board and stop the rot. i feel we have enough quality in the squad to get us out of the do-do and we have some pretty big lads in the side too, lets adopt some tactical changes ,like not showing opposing teams too much respect, let them know their in a game of football, ( fair play leagues don't put points on the board) , why not (temporarily) adopt a long ball game ( worked for big Jack yerars ago), no, not attractive football i know but if we only win games 1-0 and it gets us out of a fix ,then so much the better.once we're safe we return to a more attractive style of play. when a team is down on it's luck, as we are right now and confidence is low results HAVE to be ground out by any means possible but lets not hit the panic button just yet ,traditionally we don't start playing 'til christmas anyway, if we can pick up a few points to drag us out of the bottom 3 before then , then i think safety ,maybe even mid-table security will be achieved by seasons end but sadly have to agree with some others, carry on like we are doing and we could be relegated by febuary, new manager or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It took cleverer people than you and me to realise that the earth was round not flat. We only believed it when we got the pictures from the satellites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fedor Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The next two games are monumental. Against the other two teams in the relegation positions. Anybody who thinks any different is living in cloud cuckoo land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stozzbozdarryll Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Nope, got to give him until Xmas totally agree,got to have a bit of faith in DJ he is building a cracking side,playing some really good football,we are just not getting the Decisions,there is no better side in this Division,We just need our share of luck, because we all know how short of that we have been, DJ must be flabbergasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahrain Owl Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 sorry about that mate will try and chase it up for you my friend ,can't understand why it has'nt arrived Mark, OK mate. I'm enjoying some of the discussions on the forum actually. I have some time off work (for once) as its the Haj deal over here and long holiday in Saudi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fedor Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 totally agree,got to have a bit of faith in DJ he is building a cracking side,playing some really good football,we are just not getting the Decisions,there is no better side in this Division,We just need our share of luck, because we all know how short of that we have been, DJ must be flabbergasted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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